ChanServ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p125: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 lines of text on http://pastie.org or use a gist
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<rue> Good
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<andrewvos> rue: UK gov is using RDF by the way.
<rue> They would be
<andrewvos> SPARQL reminds me of Twilight.
<seanstickle> They need some XML standard to track their expense scandals
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<andrewvos> rue: Are you somehow involved with eero?
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<banisterfiend> anyone here program haskell?
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: ping
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<zenspider> what'd I miss?
<seanstickle> zenspider: 106ºF temperatures
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<Spaceghostc2c> zenspider: I was made aware that people intentionally use RDF today.
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<seanstickle> Sure, I used it extensively at a previous job.
<seanstickle> Dublin Core FTW
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<epitron> seanstickle: what did you do with it?
<Spaceghostc2c> Horrible things, likely.
<seanstickle> Tracked metadata about conference paper submissions
<seanstickle> And queried them with the SPARQL
<seanstickle> Delightful fun
<epitron> ah
<epitron> so people RDFatize their conference papers?
<Spaceghostc2c> seanstickle: You actually enjoyed it?
<seanstickle> epitron: They would enter the data into form fields, and we would RDFimate it
<seanstickle> Spaceghostc2c: I did, yes.
<Spaceghostc2c> RDFitation sounds interesting.
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<Spaceghostc2c> I'm working on building an SVG for the background of my gamified project tracker. And fuck those who can't SVG.
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<Spaceghostc2c> Might have a fallback to be an image, but still use the xml with the javascript.
<seanstickle> Advanced Programming & Projects?
<epitron> seanstickle: why bother with the RDFousity, though? couldn't you just put the data into database fields?
<epitron> or does the dublin core infer higher-level categories or something?
<seanstickle> epitron: We did that, of course. But we also wanted to expose the system for SPARQL queries
<seanstickle> epitron: and other RDF search enginey things
<epitron> so, what used that feature?
<Spaceghostc2c> urmam
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<epitron> don't talk about me mamm!
<seanstickle> epitron: some search engines that indexes research papers
<epitron> ah'll bax yer ears!!
<Spaceghostc2c> She's a lovely lady, quite classy and kind. She knew how to query RDF files like no other, if you know what I mean.
<seanstickle> epitron: I forget the name of it now, this was back in 2006
<epitron> seanstickle: haha... i see... interesting
<epitron> Spaceghostc2c: aww well that's swaet
<epitron> are there big projects to bring semantic-like things to the intertubes?
<Spaceghostc2c> Don't swaet it.
<epitron> like... ones that aren't RDF
<epitron> i guess google is kinda that
<seanstickle> You don't like RDF?
<epitron> in black-box form
<seanstickle> It's Prolog for the Web, what's so hard about it?
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<epitron> i don't like the way you have to tag everything with these ugly, horrible things
<epitron> it should take a more user-friendly form
<epitron> like... google magically inferring categories :D
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<epitron> but maybe with the ability to actaully see the inferences
<epitron> (and correct them, if they're not done properly)
<seanstickle> N3 is not very ugly at all.
<seanstickle> Maybe you've just been using the XML notatin
<seanstickle> *notation
<epitron> never heard of H3
<epitron> *N3
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<epitron> wow, this is old
<epitron> hmmm
<epitron> easier to read for sure
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<epitron> still needs tooling to find those urls though
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<zenspider> seanstickle: wtf?!?
<seanstickle> zenspider: ?
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<zenspider> seanstickle: is it really 106F?
<zenspider> I'd die
<seanstickle> zenspider: It was yes
<seanstickle> It's only 95ºF now, at 11 pm
<seanstickle> Yuck
<zenspider> ugh. it's 76 in my kitchen and I'm already dying...
<seanstickle> I am not so happy.
<seanstickle> Maybe one day I'll move to Seattle
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<zenspider> I'll buy you a coffee when you show up
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<seanstickle> :)
<seanstickle> Is that where you are?
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<erikh> hello again, friends.
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<banisterfiend> erikh: hey erik
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<erikh> banisterfiend: what's up
<banisterfiend> erikh: freezing cold about to sleep, what about u
<erikh> yeah, I need to get to bed too
<erikh> just trying to get test.rubygems.org back up.
<banisterfiend> erikh: cool, are ppl using it more now?
<erikh> not really, but I don't like having stuff down.
<erikh> I've been too busy this week to really get it sorted.
<banisterfiend> erikh: is your friend jessup (or whatever his name was) still doign it with u?
<erikh> not really.
<erikh> I tried to keep it up on my own for a while, but in all honesty I didn't try too hard.
<erikh> others keep telling me I should try harder, it's a good idea and so forth
<erikh> but dunnno
<erikh> I've been searching for something new to work on for a while now
<banisterfiend> erikh: u should improve rubygems.org stats
<banisterfiend> rubygems.org could be so much better than it is
<erikh> I... really don't want to work on rubygems.org
<erikh> let's leave it there :)
<banisterfiend> y
<ryanf> erikh: he is incapable of leaving anything anywhere
<ryanf> you should know that
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<banisterfiend> ryanf: i like to pry
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<erikh> ha
<erikh> I kind of want to learn more about unix i/o and threading
<erikh> and process management
<erikh> basically all things system-y
<erikh> can't debug it worth a damn but I know enough to fuck shit up now
<erikh> I think I'm going to hold off until Josiah's ready to work on this box with me
<erikh> being down another day or so isn't a big deal at this point.
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<rfx> I want to try out using a debugger for my ruby stuff, when I look at the result at http://rubygems.org/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=debug I am .. stunned. I'm using 1.9.3p194 on Linux; when I look at the gem result, I'd say I can narrow it down to: ruby-debug-base19, ruby-debug19, ruby-debg-ide19 (I guess I can understand the difference between those) but then there's only rdebug, ruby-debug193, debugger
<rfx> .. how can I find out what gem I need?
<erikh> you probalby want ruby-debug193
<erikh> last I checked -debug19 (which was the standard for a while) doesn't build on 1.9.3
<banisterfiend> rfx: debugger gem
<erikh> ?!
<banisterfiend> erikh: it's a fixed up version of ruby-debu19
<banisterfiend> debug*
<erikh> oh, I see.
<banisterfiend> rfx: another alternative is pry, that is OK for most debugging stuff, and has plugins for debugger too: http://pry.github.com
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<banisterfiend> it's my fave because of the pretty colors
<rfx> ah, ok, thanks
<rfx> I have been using Ruby last year *and* debugging too; but I forgot some stuff and when I looked at the list, nothing ringed; just too much choices. thanks
<erikh> yeah there's a lot of room for improvement in that area.
<rfx> On a smilar stuff, I was reading some things about QT and Ruby and oh was I lucky to find this q/a http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7577248/how-can-i-get-qt4-running-with-ruby-1-9-2-on-windows-7 , because it clearly described the difference between qtbinding and qtruby. Whenever I search for gems I feel like I need someone to explain me what I found and what I'd need
<ryanf> I was going to suggest ruby-toolbox, but it turns out it doesn't know anything about debuggers
<ryanf> but it knows about some other categories of gem
<erikh> rfx: the whole of the ruby community could use a clearer documentation source
<erikh> that's not the fault of anyone that's currently doing it, but really just nobody stepping up and solving the problem.
<erikh> ruby-doc.org is the closest we have, and it doesn't cover gems
<erikh> and rdoc.info is ...
<erikh> I guess what I'm saying is that it should be stupid easy to contribute documentation
<banisterfiend> erikh: but it's nto a matter of documenting gems
<banisterfiend> afaik
<banisterfiend> debugger is quite well documented i think
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<erikh> well,
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<erikh> there's a metadata patch (which I think is the one I contributed) that covers this
<banisterfiend> it's more that the options for which gem to use arent laid out clearly,notwithstanding rubytoolbox
<erikh> for rubygems
<erikh> some kind of standard could be implemented by rubytoolbox, et al that would help people find what they need
<erikh> the metadata's freeform
<erikh> just a hash table IIRC
<banisterfiend> erikh: do u like ruby tool box
<erikh> I haven't used it tbh
<erikh> lately almost all my ruby work is in chef
<erikh> I doubt it covers that
<burgestrand> banisterfiend: pong
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: hey, i was just going to ask if haskell functions are closures
<burgestrand> banisterfiend: yes
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: thanks
<burgestrand> banisterfiend: f x = (\y -> x + y) is valid, for example
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<banisterfiend> thx
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<burgestrand> banisterfiend: only ~100 commits left before you have 1k commits on pry :)
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: heeh cool, i reached my 1 millionth gem download teh other day too (that's pry + other gems)
<burgestrand> awesome! :d
<banisterfiend> all good reasons to get a bottle of whiskey
<burgestrand> yes, if one can stand whiskey
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: what do u drink?
<banisterfiend> schnapps?
<burgestrand> banisterfiend: chocolate milk
<burgestrand> :P
<banisterfiend> you dont drink alcohol burg?
<burgestrand> I do, but I drink something new every time with the exception of when I drink beer (which is rare)
<burgestrand> usually just random weird drinks, and shots
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: so you're regularly intoxicated?
<burgestrand> but even then it’s about once or twice every quarter
<burgestrand> so no :)
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<burgestrand> don’t do coffee or tea either, just chocolate milk and liquor… sometimes both at the same time
<banisterfiend> burgestrand: r u sure u're not a 14 year old girl
<banisterfiend> :P
<burgestrand> :P
<erikh> hahah
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<rue> Most 14-year-olds probably drink more than that.
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<zenspider> man... reasoned schemer is a lovely brainfuck...
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<erikh> rdoc is so snappy on this SSD
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<zenspider> have any of you guys gone through the little/seasoned/reasoned schemer books?
<erikh> I have not
<erikh> I should probably pick up scheme sometime.
<erikh> it'd be good for my noggin'
<zenspider> have you done any other lisps?
<erikh> elisp mostly; some clojure
<erikh> dabbled in CL but nothing of note
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<erikh> zenspider: can I have you look at a rdoc refactor in a few minutes and offer your opinion?
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<zenspider> drbrain would be better at that... I try not to touch rdoc
<erikh> fair 'nuff
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<zenspider> elisp I would say almost doesn't count.
<zenspider> how'd you like clojure?
<zenspider> I took one small stab at it... but I swear I'm allergic to the jvm
<erikh> I liked it
<zenspider> (I'm also biased towards scheme these days... these books are fantastic... and strange)
<erikh> it has just enough lisp to feel good and enough java to make it pragmatic
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<erikh> 4clojure.org is a really good place to pick it up
<erikh> or .com. I can't remember now
<erikh> the seq stuff is really nice and very fast.
<erikh> that said, I hate the way JVM stuff runs at a system level
<erikh> jars can have their uses, but the whole ecosystem is overbuilt
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<erikh> one thing I'd really like to do to rubygems is create a jar-alike
<erikh> bundle exec would just be useless at that point
<zenspider> I highly recommend chicken scheme. fast as fuck and that's WITHOUT compiling it first.... has pretty good libraries to make everyday stuff doable instead of a chore
<erikh> ok; I'll make a note of it
<zenspider> bundler is already useless
<erikh> unfortunately it's a thing I deal with every day
<erikh> even on 1.1 our rake tasks take almost a minute to spin up
<erikh> rails and a motherlode of gems
<zenspider> the developer tools of chicken scheme aren't the best... if/when you have to debug it's prolly better to run in racket (which has really neat gui tools)... but it's too slow for normal use imo
<erikh> yeah, all that's greek to me. I'll need to get involved.
<zenspider> that's horrible
<erikh> I have a friend reading the little schemer, he really likes it. have you read it?
<zenspider> I've done all the schemer books now
<zenspider> I'm doing a second pass on reasoned schemer (impls prolog-ish in scheme)
<erikh> oh neat
<zenspider> they're not for everyone... but they work really well for my brain
<erikh> Yeah, my rub is that I spend too much time frittering away writing things I'll never use
<erikh> instead of picking up a book on a topic that interests me, I just dive in head-first
<zenspider> after doing sicp, little/seasoned schemers prolly weren't the mind-benders they will be for most... but they offer a different and very clean perspective. they're wonderful...
<zenspider> but reasoned schemer has been a challenge and a joy
<erikh> I need to read SICP
<erikh> that and my dragon book. I just need to slog through them. I know they'll make me a better programmer.
<zenspider> the whole impl for the prolog-ish system is 204 lines long, and I could prolly clean them up with some lets
<erikh> ha, nice
<zenspider> dragon book? meh. you could do better with less.
<zenspider> only 200 lines and I STILL don't understand it yet.
<zenspider> I know how the system works... but getting inside the impl is gonna take more work
<erikh> yeah, I was having that problem in clojure
<erikh> I could voodoo it up until I got something working, but I didn't really understand it.
<erikh> brb
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<rfx> wow, going back to my debugger question, found yet another one: http://github.com/rocky/rb-trepanning
<rfx> I'm not sure if I know more debugger or ORM projects for ruby now .. :)
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<banisterfiend> rfx: that requries you to patch ruby though
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<banisterfiend> apeiros_: heya
<rfx> banisterfiend: yes, quite a barrier IMHO
<rfx> uh no, what did I say. May name isn't Ilias
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<apeiros_> hi banisterfiend
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<banisterfiend> apeiros_: i was playing with irb, how come when i create classes/methods it just shows "?" as the open token? is that set in the prompt? or does it not provide token info in that case?
<banisterfiend> apeiros_: it's correct for strings and regexen though
<apeiros_> banisterfiend: odd, for me it's *, not ?
<banisterfiend> apeiros_: one sec
<apeiros_> one sad thing though: %{ shows " too, not {
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<apeiros_> proc { shows >>, but increases the level, would like { there too
<banisterfiend> apeiros_: https://gist.github.com/3070656
<apeiros_> IOW, I think one can improve over irb's behaviour
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<banisterfiend> apeiros_: see after the 00N: it shows ? for class
<banisterfiend> but for the "hi
<banisterfiend> it shows "
<apeiros_> ah, you have the default prompt from rvm
<apeiros_> I override that :)
<banisterfiend> apeiros_: so irb does provide info to let u know it's an open CLASS versus an open method and so on?
<apeiros_> iirc ? (or * for me) is just "any other thing that's open and needs closing"
<banisterfiend> apeiros_: oh ok, i'll show u what i came up with for pry, note i haven't made the prompt pretty, im just displaying the 'open token' in the prompt, so u'll have to make proper use of that in your own prompt
<banisterfiend> one sec
<apeiros_> hm, I thought to irb class Foo and if x then are the same. seems they aren't…
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<apeiros_> banisterfiend: ok. I don't think it's necessary to replicate irb's behavior exactly. since as said, it's not optimal. so if you have more info, go for it! :)
<apeiros_> I just have no idea for a good single string to indicate "open class"
<banisterfiend> apeiros_: https://gist.github.com/3070663
<apeiros_> ah, you use multiple characters… hm… ok
<apeiros_> I think that's what the continuation_type was about. a symbol with the type, so that with the use of a proc can change the prompt to your own liking (e.g. even hide the whole prompt)
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<apeiros_> (not that I'd do that)
<apeiros_> I think it's good. only problem I have with multi chars is that it'll either leave empty space (padding) or kill alignment
<apeiros_> maybe 'c' for open class, 'm' for open module, 'd' for open def?
<banisterfiend> well, it's just a demo showing the information is available :) i dont expect anyone to actually set up their prompts like that
<banisterfiend> yeah
<apeiros_> ah, ok
<apeiros_> in that case: weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! :D
<banisterfiend> i can pass in another parameter indicating the token class
<banisterfiend> which u could use instead
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<rue> Stupid netzwerke
<banisterfiend> rue: labyu
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<rue> Do what now?
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<imperator> good morning
<seanstickle> Good afternoon!
<imperator> need some event handling advice
<imperator> got an object (a windows Event) - it has two states, signaled and unsignaled
<imperator> the constructor for this Event takes a block
<imperator> i want the block to fire when the state of the Event goes from non-signaled to signaled
<imperator> the trick is that the state of the object is changed by an external call, not by itself (well, it could be changed by itself, but nm that)
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<imperator> so, not by an explicit method call
<imperator> how do i do that?
<imperator> pseudocode i hope helps: https://gist.github.com/3071039
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<andrewvos> Man, I really don't like cucumber and how it is unrefactorable, but I just can't get past how awesome it is having executable documentation.
<seanstickle> You might love MDA
<banisterfiend> andrewvos: good bacon/rspec tests read like docs too
<andrewvos> banisterfiend: Fuck rspec!
<banisterfiend> andrewvos: yeah, that's why i us bacon :)
<banisterfiend> use
<andrewvos> banisterfiend: But yeah. I'm leaning toward that. SUppose I could use minitests rspec-type stuff.
<andrewvos> I'm thinking of doing something like webmachine in ruby. I know there is a ruby version. I just kind of want to rewrite it.
<banisterfiend> andrewvos: you program erlang?
<andrewvos> banisterfiend: No
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<andrewvos> banisterfiend: Why?
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<Spaceghostc2c> andrewvos: I don't really like cucumber in the way a lot of people do them.
<Spaceghostc2c> But if I had to, I'd use turnip, rspec and page object pattern.
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<Spaceghostc2c> I love rspec, but it's really just the whole behaviour stuff that I prefer.
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<andrewvos> Spaceghostc2c: Page Object --
<andrewvos> Turnip does look good though.
<Spaceghostc2c> andrewvos: Wat?
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<andrewvos> You heard me
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<Spaceghostc2c> andrewvos: Were you asking a question or something?
<andrewvos> Would it be bad to name a web framework bRESTicles?
<andrewvos> Yeah ok that's kind of rhetorical. Disregard that.
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<andrewvos> someone give me a gem name please
<Spaceghostc2c> Jaguar.
<Spaceghostc2c> this_gem_sucks
<andrewvos> Probably taken
<Spaceghostc2c> andrewvos: Try 'rails'
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<Spaceghostc2c> fuck_shit_stack?
<andrewvos> your_mom?
<andrewvos> heh
<Spaceghostc2c> butler?
<Spaceghostc2c> The executable could be butle, as in, "You're a butler, go butle something".
<Spaceghostc2c> Or hyde, and you could make it all cool and work with jekyll? Or hydra and you could make it concurrent by nature.
<andrewvos> Maybe I should just call it space_ghost
<andrewvos> Seriously contemplating that
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<andrewvos> Who cares anyway, it's not like it's going to be as popular as sinatra or rails.
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<Spaceghostc2c> Who knows?
<Spaceghostc2c> You could follow cramp and do 'period' or 'bloat'.
<Spaceghostc2c> Or monthly_cycle
<andrewvos> heh
<Spaceghostc2c> Or 'brogram'
<andrewvos> Yeah I think I'm going to go with space_ghost. Don't really want to get shunned.
<Spaceghostc2c> Make it speak HATEOAS from the get go.
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<Spaceghostc2c> Namazue!
<Spaceghostc2c> Namazu!
<andrewvos> Namazu - A giant catfish that causes earthquakes.
<andrewvos> That is pretty cool
<andrewvos> And insane
<andrewvos> Nurarihyon - A strange character who sneaks into houses on busy evenings.
<andrewvos> [edit]
<apeiros_> Cthulu
<apeiros_> fascinating: Ittan-momen - A possessed roll of cotton that attempts to smother people by wrapping itself around their faces.
<Spaceghostc2c> KAppa please.
<Spaceghostc2c> Ningyo - A fish person or "mermaid".
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<seanstickle> We have some equally scary legendary creatures in America
<apeiros_> isn't kappa a fashion brand?
<apeiros_> seanstickle: bambi?
<seanstickle> Ronapol: A free market demon that threatens to get elected every now and then
<seanstickle> Vaccinex - a mysterious venom that causes autism in children
<seanstickle> Etc
<Spaceghostc2c> seanstickle: pron
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<andrewvos> seanstickle: It is.
<seanstickle> andrewvos: huh?
<andrewvos> seanstickle: Kappa.
<seanstickle> Kappa?
<seanstickle> What the hell are you talking about?
<andrewvos> seanstickle: Kappa is a fashion label.
<seanstickle> And?
<ryanf> apeiros_ said that
<ryanf> not seanstickle
<seanstickle> Wow, that had me confused all to hell
<andrewvos> Oh
<andrewvos> Yeah me too
<andrewvos> apeiros_: It is.
<apeiros_> I am
<apeiros_> and I was
<apeiros_> and I will be
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<andrewvos> Ok so I'm writing a webmachine type app
<andrewvos> Framework I mean..
<andrewvos> Hold on there's a question here eventually...
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<andrewvos> So, in webmachine if you have a Home class, and you return false for #authorised? how would you switch to display an unauthorised landing page?
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<andrewvos> Because a user has to be authorised.. but webmachine will return like a 403 or something?
<andrewvos> But you still want to display a home page
<Spaceghostc2c> Change the rendered content?
<andrewvos> Spaceghostc2c: But what about the 403?
<Spaceghostc2c> The block that gets passed to yield isn't the one that authorized people get. You get a block of 403-ish content?
<andrewvos> Well, I'm guessing you wouldn't actually implement #authorised?, maybe perhaps #forbidden? is more correct.
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<andrewvos> webmachine-ruby uses is_authorised?
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<rolfb> i've grown tired of the solarized theme for ruby programming. any suggestions for themes I should try? (using vim)
<awaySilver-sleep> MONOKAI OR DESERT
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<rue> Those are OK, but force caps lock on
<rue> andrewvos: Logged-in home page ≠ non-logged-in home page
<rue> Although, I suppose you could argue that it *can* be considered two representations of the same resource…
<andrewvos> rue: Indeed.
<andrewvos> rue: What would you do, if you had to use webmachine for a homepage like this?
<rue> I dunno, I don’t use webmachine
<andrewvos> But what would you do, if you had to use it?
<andrewvos> I suppose you would just have to not return false for a front page.
<andrewvos> Or have a secondary homepage object.
<andrewvos> Multiple objects with the sme route
<andrewvos> Sounds almost legit
<andrewvos> But weird to code
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<rolfb> rue: force caps lock on?
<andrewvos> rolfb: ALWAYS
<rolfb> andrewvos: o_O
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