apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Nick registration required to talk || Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<zenspider> zzak: oops. got distracted. releasing.
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<zenspider> ugh. or trying to
<zenspider> fuck. looks like rake is fucking with me again.
<zenspider> why did I upgrade anything? :(
<zenspider> the package is out. but the blog post and prolly email are not.
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<zzak> :(
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<zzak> zenspider: thanks for the release!
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<whitequark> gah, where's injekt when you need him
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<Technodrome> [spoiler]: you still around
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<[spoiler]> mhm
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<[spoiler]> Technodrome: I'm here :D
<Technodrome> what were the 3 things again for self, you had a third one, can't remember what it was
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<[spoiler]> 1. Self inside module/class blocks references the module/class it's inside.
<[spoiler]> 2. Self inside a method references the receiver of the method call (an object instance)
<Technodrome> yeah
<Technodrome> you had a 3rd [spoiler] :)
<[spoiler]> 3. The "wild" self is a bit special. It's an instance of Object called "main"
<[spoiler]> those were all
<Technodrome> i was just curious what it was
<[spoiler]> Iirc
<Technodrome> ah
<Technodrome> yes the self in the global space
<[spoiler]> the global space self
<Technodrome> yeah
<[spoiler]> is strange. It's probably some C magic
<[spoiler]> to make it behave the way it behaves
<[spoiler]> but, yeah
<[spoiler]> it's not *that* special that you'd ever need to use it
<Technodrome> its safe to say i get it completely, the thing in ruby under a microscope explains it soo well
<[spoiler]> Oh? I've never read any Ruby books
<[spoiler]> I probably should
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<Technodrome> to be honest, i don't think there is anything else in the ruby language itself that confuses me, that was the only misfit for me
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<[spoiler]> "After all, MRI is written in C - a statically typed, compiled language which is pretty much the antithesis of Ruby. What dark voodoo is breathed into C to enable Ruby's features - closures, metaprogramming, and so much more?" - from the Author's website. This is mildly accurate
<[spoiler]> I had to revisit a lot of the Ruby source to grasp some concepts of how Ruby works
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<[spoiler]> Like, I'd read it, but then I'd have to read it again, because I discovered something weird in another part of the source I was interested in
<[spoiler]> Hnnng. It was both a pain and a joy
<Technodrome> i'm just doing simple rails CRUD
<[spoiler]> Technodrome: I'm usually not *that* interested in a language I use, but I really loved Ruby so I was curious
<[spoiler]> and decided to take a peak
<[spoiler]> and then it pulled me in
<Technodrome> yeah i mean the goal is to become productive
<Technodrome> not become obsessed :)
<[spoiler]> hahah
<Technodrome> people with no knowledge of what OO really is, what lambda or a proc or any of that is , get stuff done
<Technodrome> and that's ok, shows you how user friendly the language can be
<Technodrome> java isn't that forgiving
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<[spoiler]> I do blieve it made me a better ruby programmer, though
<[spoiler]> & I learned some C, because I didn't understand C as well back then, but wanting to understand Ruby made me force myself to understand C better
<Technodrome> what was your first language?
<[spoiler]> I'm embarrassed to say, actually
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<davispuh> Visual Basic? :D
<[spoiler]> Well, what the hell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPTSCRAE
<[spoiler]> davispuh: VB would arguably be a better choice
<davispuh> I can't imagine anything worse than VB :D
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<Technodrome> vb.net is still alive
<Technodrome> sadly enough
<Technodrome> i had a c# spell myself : 9
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<[spoiler]> NGL, that Wikipedia
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<Technodrome> why is Class.superclass
<Technodrome> => Module
<Technodrome> why is that a module?
<Technodrome> Module.class
<Technodrome> => Class
<Technodrome> hmmmm?
<[spoiler]> entry is a load of bullshit. I'm not sure about the origin & it being used at "Idaho", but the only place where the language was really used was this weird 2D chat software called Palace
<[spoiler]> that's where I learned it anyway
<[spoiler]> Technodrome: Module is an instance of Class (like all objects are)
<[spoiler]> erm, like all classes are*
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<Technodrome> but why is Class.superclass , module?
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<[spoiler]> Okay, so
<[spoiler]> Module is the superclass of Class, but Module is just an instance of Class
<Technodrome> how does that make sense [spoiler] ?
<[spoiler]> Because, Ruby is a bit weird
<[spoiler]> Everythign is an object
<[spoiler]> and everything has a superclass
<[spoiler]> (except BasicObject)
<[spoiler]> Object < Module < Class
<[spoiler]> however, Object is an instance of Class and so is Module, but Class inherits from Module
<[spoiler]> ok, let me illustrate
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<[spoiler]> whitequark: I hate diagrams with arrows
<[spoiler]> whitequark: *tries to read them anyway*
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<[spoiler]> It's so weird how that diagram makes sense evn though it shouldn't
<[spoiler]> even*
<[spoiler]> Welcome to Ruby ~
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<charliesome> ruby's object system can be difficult to get your head around but it's beautifully simple once you do
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<charliesome> a bit like git, i guess
<whitequark> charliesome: hi!
<charliesome> howdy
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<[spoiler]> Hi :D
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<whitequark> charliesome: any progress on "".freeze ?
<charliesome> whitequark: not that i've heard
<whitequark> or we're stuck with hideous ""f forever?
<charliesome> i want to ping ko1 about it but i've been in a bad timezone for talking to the japanese devs for a while
<whitequark> please do
<charliesome> yeah
<charliesome> i wanna kill f-suffix
<[spoiler]> Wait what? is ""f supposed to be some syntax sugar for a frozen string?
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<[spoiler]> Oh god, it is.
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<charliesome> whitequark: ko1 agrees with "".freeze
<charliesome> need to get matz's approval to remove f-suffix
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<ryanf> whitequark: I feel like I'm misunderstanding something about that object model diagram
<whitequark> charliesome: cool
<ryanf> specifically "eigenclass of all eigenclasses is Class"
<ryanf> is that supposed to mean that (the eigenclass of any given eigenclass) == Class?
<ryanf> because that doesn't appear to be true
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<whitequark> >> class << (class << (class << Class))); self; end
<eval-in> whitequark => /tmp/execpad-833dba2dc684/source-833dba2dc684:2: syntax error, unexpected ')', expecting ';' or '\n' ... (https://eval.in/59732)
<ryanf> >> class X; class << self; class << self; self; end; end; end
<eval-in> ryanf => #<Class:#<Class:X>> (https://eval.in/59733)
<ryanf> see
<ryanf> oh wait
<ryanf> yeah, no, that's the same, right?
<whitequark> yeah
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<ryanf> so
<ryanf> >> (class X; class << self; class << self; self; end; end; end) == Class
<eval-in> ryanf => false (https://eval.in/59734)
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<t4nkd> Which ruby channel is for generalized help?
<bougyman> this one
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<t4nkd> Thanks -- so I'm having a problem converting a string with escaped hexadecimal into its ascii representation, here's a simple example: https://gist.github.com/jonpaul/b59ff9cc0007045d7f54
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<t4nkd> I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong, unfortunately
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<Technodrome> i had no clue that is class is a subclass of Module?
<Technodrome> crazy
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<vbatts> zzak: just preparing to rage-document
<imperator> rage-document?
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<vbatts> there are things frustratingly undocumented
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<imperator> such as?
<vbatts> OpenSSL
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<zzak> vbatts: :o
<zzak> please do
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<vbatts> zzak: heh
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<zzak> vbatts: my patch queue is too damn high right now
<zzak> but after rubyconf i should have more time to review and commit patches
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<vbatts> zzak: pm
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<Croesus> ?
<Croesus> Is this the official ruby irc/
<Croesus> ?
<Croesus> or is it #ruby?
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<lianj> Croesus: yes, this one
<Croesus> How can I trust you though, really?
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<DouweM> Croesus: #ruby is more active, so while this is the official channel, the one you should join depends on what you're looking for.
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Morrolan has left #ruby-lang ["Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is"]
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<[spoiler]> Croesus: this is where the good ones are :-)
<Croesus> ok
<[spoiler]> well, better than in #ruby :P (note: I might be opinionated)
<Technodrome> good day [spoiler]
<[spoiler]> Technodrome: heya! :D
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<Technodrome> how are you
<[spoiler]> I'm alright. I've been working all day with PHP, so it's made me a bit... Well, it's php.
<Technodrome> what kind of stuff in PHP?
<[spoiler]> Website for a hotel chain in Croatia
<[spoiler]> I'm using cakePHP (which is the Rails equivalent for PHP)
<[spoiler]> It's not even that bad, to be fair
<Technodrome> cake :( :)
<Technodrome> i'm just not really a fan of PHP
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<[spoiler]> Neither am I, haha
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<imperator> didn't go straight to drupal, eh?
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<[spoiler]> imperator: drupal is a CMS; cake is a framework (which is odd, since php is almost a framework, too)
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<Nilium> PHP is like chinese scaffolding: precarious and likely to kill you.
<[spoiler]> I'd attribute more value to my cat's feces than to PHP :D
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<imperator> [spoiler], yes, i know
<[spoiler]> Also, they claimed that cake's really close to Rails, so I wouldn't have to learn much to use it (which was true). So, yay!
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<ljarvis> zzak: :)
<zzak> ohi
<ljarvis> hai
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<yorickpeterse> herro
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<[spoiler]> yp
<[spoiler]> s/p/o
<imperator> eh?
<apeiros> [spoiler]: `which is odd, since php is almost a framework` - that's because it is. check out its root. it was personal home page [tools]
<apeiros> *its roots
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<[spoiler]> apeiros: really? Is that what PHP stands for? I've never bothered to look into it, to be honest
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<[spoiler]> oh, indeed, from wikipedia: "While PHP originally stood for Personal Home Page,[4] it now stands for PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor, a recursive acronym.[5]"
<ljarvis> it's a recursive acronym that stands for
<ljarvis> ^ that
<ljarvis> but yeah, personal home page.. lul
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<[spoiler]> That's such a shitty recrusive acronym, though
<[spoiler]> I like YAML, for example
<[spoiler]> that's a cool one
<lianj> yea, rails likes yaml too
<[spoiler]> Rails has good taste, innit. :)
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<ljarvis> apeiros: is erik still banned?
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<yorickpeterse> lel PHP
<yorickpeterse> +b
<yorickpeterse> gah fuck
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* yorickpeterse is bad at IRC
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<imperator> he got banned?
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<ljarvis> yes
<imperator> ljarvis, you mean erikh?
<imperator> wat fer?
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<ljarvis> ya
<ljarvis> for being a dick
<ljarvis> i guess
<ljarvis> ryan banned him
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<Technodrome> what are the top 5 or 10 things newer ruby programmers have the biggest issues with?
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<canton7> "what is a block?", the concepts behind doing list comprehensions, come to mind
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<Technodrome> does ruby even have list comprehensions?
<lianj> "wtf rvm, why didn't anybody tell me about rbenv earlier"
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<ljarvis> "wtf rbenv, why didn't anybody tell me about chruby earlier"
<canton7> Technodrome, 'list comprehension' in the general sense, rather than the python sense. Yes, ruby has the whole of Enumerable (notably #map, #select, #inject)
<Technodrome> what is the best of the dvm / rbenv etc?
<canton7> and imo #select/#map provides a cleaner and more concise way of doing list comprehensions, compared to python's approach
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<zzak> "wtf chruby, why didn't anybody tell me about make earlier"
<imperator> threads maybe?
<imperator> class << self
<imperator> blocks
<yorickpeterse> re 5/10 things
<yorickpeterse> "the fuck is a class"
<yorickpeterse> "what is object oriented?"
<yorickpeterse> etc
<imperator> windows ;)
<ljarvis> that's any language
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<yorickpeterse> also depends on the definition of "newer"
* yorickpeterse puts on the pedantics hat
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<yxhuvud> technodrome: being able to call functions without ()s. Easier for new programmers, but it can be hard for old hats switching over. Also, multiple assignment in block argument lists.
<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: also lol you're doing Perl now?
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<ljarvis> yorickpeterse: not generally, I only write ruby and go in my day to day work nowadays, but i'm helping out a friend and got to relive some old perl
<zzak> 2014 the year of perl
<zzak> prepare your semicolons
<ljarvis> that was a terrible choice of words
<ljarvis> im not preparing any kind of colon
<zzak> i should tweet that with #possiblytmi
<charliesome> perl is pretty ok
<ljarvis> i enjoy it, but i dont think id wanna work with it every day for work
<Technodrome> yxhuvud: multiple assignment in block argument list?
<Technodrome> like |k ,v| ?
<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: heh
<charliesome> Technodrome: |(a,b), (c,d)|
<yorickpeterse> at least Perl has a decent pakcage manager, except for the lack of versioning
<Technodrome> i've actually never seen that myself
<yorickpeterse> unpacks an array, pretty useful
<ljarvis> cpan is the best thing ever like srsly
<yxhuvud> yeah. The amount of times I've told former javaists to clean up their code a bit by using arguments x_x
<ljarvis> |(a, b), *(c), d|
<charliesome> cpan is a pain in the ass to actually setup
<ljarvis> charliesome: psh
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<ljarvis> it's quite a process sometimes
<charliesome> hi, you want to install a package?
<charliesome> sure!
<ljarvis> but you can skip a lot of it
<charliesome> just answer these a billion questions
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<ryanf> haha
<charliesome> oh sheeeit you don't have LWP
<ljarvis> heh yeah, better to set it up once properly though
<ryanf> it's so *friendly* though
<charliesome> tough shit
<ljarvis> seeing as its so configurable
<ljarvis> yeah lol @ the lwp stuff
<yxhuvud> do cpan have some bundler variant or is it simply install and hope it won't break in the future?
<ljarvis> and YAML at times
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<ljarvis> yxhuvud: you can specify versions to use
<ljarvis> use Foo::Bar 1.2
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<ljarvis> if you want version management pain just use go :troll:
<yxhuvud> oh? why?
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<ljarvis> there is no version management
<yxhuvud> sounds horrid.
<charliesome> just use master its fine
<ljarvis> ^
<imperator> they do have a nice testing backend - cpan testers
<imperator> ruby could really use that
<ljarvis> yeah that's where erik got the idea for ruby testers
<ljarvis> which was around for a while
<charliesome> lol nah its fine just push up to rubygems its cool
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<imperator> actually....i meant to look at the various github services, see if there's a testing hook of some kind
<imperator> CI maybe?
<yxhuvud> perl at least has a rumor of being somewhat stable in their apis. Less progress, but stuff doesn't break as often (if I've understood people I know that commit perl correctly)
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<ljarvis> imperator: you may notice a .gemtest file in some gems
<ljarvis> imperator: we use one for nokogiri
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<imperator> ljarvis, i remember trying to use it at one point, but had to jump through too many hoops and got annoyed
<ljarvis> yeah it was very beta
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<Technodrome> ljarvis: so what is that good for? |(a,b), (b,c)| ?
<crankharder> why doesn't this parse in 1.9.3 ? Date.strptime("1/29/95", "%-m/%-d/%y")
<crankharder> getting 'invalid date' from that
<ljarvis> %-m and %-d
<crankharder> ?
<ljarvis> why not %m and %d ?
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<crankharder> because the 1 isn't padded?
<ljarvis> because that would work
<ljarvis> so?
<yxhuvud> (a, b) (b, c) seems like a bad idea as it will assign b multiple times.
<crankharder> strptime doesn't follow the same %things as strftime?
<ljarvis> not in that way
<ljarvis> that is, %-d is invalid
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<ljarvis> you're just telling strptime "this thing looks like a day"
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<crankharder> ok, ty
<ljarvis> and if it's not in 1-31 or w/e it'll break
<crankharder> I thought it followed the same rules as strftime :)
* imperator sees a ton of service hooks on github, not a clue what any of them do
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<ljarvis> im out, later all
<imperator> cya
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<crankharder> how do I make /dec.*\d{4}/ not match, and stop at the first 4 digits it incounters?
<[spoiler]> crankharder: not match what?
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<[spoiler]> also, .* will match everything
<crankharder> s/not//
<[spoiler]> can I see an example string?
<crankharder> trying to match a date str, but some of the lines have 4 digits further down the line
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<crankharder> "december 31, 1999 1234"
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<[spoiler]> Well, what you wrote should work
<whitequark> crankharder: .*?
<nvg> what are you trying to do with the string? convert it into a date?
<whitequark> i.e. use ".*?" instead of ".*"
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<nvg> whitequark: yes, that works to not match the 1234 at the end.
<[spoiler]> whitequark: oh, odd. I was under the impression that /.*?/ would work the same as /(.*)?/, but it doesn't. is *? special in some way?
<whitequark> yes
<whitequark> it's a non-greedy match
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<nvg> although, if you want to extract the date you can use: http://rubular.com/r/1rajVM3qTi
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<ezkl> another fun one: http://rubular.com/r/wPJuOpTkhg
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<DouweM> FYI: [0-9] is (theoretically) more performant than \d, because the latter also takes non-Arabic numerals
<DouweM> yup
<whitequark> ... except it doesn't, because I've just checked it and it doesn't match.
<DouweM> Yeah, apparently it doesn't matter in Ruby, but it's good to keep in mind. .NET and Python3 apparently do behave like that by default: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16621738/d-is-less-efficient-than-0-9
<whitequark> oniguruma docs suggest it also should do that: http://www.geocities.jp/kosako3/oniguruma/doc/RE.txt
<whitequark> but it doesn't.
<whitequark> also, I wonder how much broken code is there which accidentally accepts non-arabic numerals and then stores somewhere.
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<whitequark> >> 1000000.times { |i| x = i.chr(Encoding::UTF_8) rescue ""; puts x if x =~ /\d/ }
<eval-in> whitequark => 0 ... (https://eval.in/59952)
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<DouweM> From the docs: "For instance, /\d/ matches only the ASCII decimal digits (0-9); whereas /[[:digit:]]/ matches any character in the Unicode Nd category."
<DouweM> So the [0-9] / \d distinction doesn't exist in Ruby, but it's good to keep in mind for regular expressions in general
<whitequark> DouweM: right, seems ruby's version of oniguruma is patched.
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<DouweM> That's a Rubinius repo, but it's a file from MRI 2.0
<whitequark> yeah
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