<aef>
Wardrop: rdoc.info was actually brought up by the people that made YARD
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<aef>
Wardrop: most people I know disable the automatic documentation generation in RubyGems through a .gemrc file. from there you can use yard server to run a local, auto refreshing documentation server for your installed gems
<aef>
if you want to change options for YARD for your released gem you setup a .yardopts file in your gem root
<aef>
cool things that YARD has but RDoc hasn't: tagged metadata, rich documentation, API diffing, useful default theme and probably some more stuff
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<Wardrop>
aef: Thanks for the info. Any drawbacks to using YARD exclusively?
<aef>
not at all
<Wardrop>
That's what I might do then. I've always thought RDoc is pretty shit.
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<aef>
Wardrop: yeah. i hope they realize to just let it die in favor of YARD. but Ruby's core has a tendency to keep shitty stuff alive forever
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<Wardrop>
aef: Indeed. Ruby's legacy does linger.
* Nilium
coughs "stdlib"
<Nilium>
Coughing that up might indicate cancer.
<Wardrop>
Yeah, was about to say. Haven't they been talking for ages about breaking out everything in stdlib into it's own gem?
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<aef>
so far only Rubinius did i think
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<rationalrevolt>
anyone here accepted into the great code club that marc cournoyer started some time back? I'd like to hear about the projects they've been working on
<rationalrevolt>
and how the experience has been
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<unsymbol>
moin
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<karamazov424>
Those of you who didn't start off programming Ruby...how long did it take you to get into the swing of things and learn what you need?
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<existensil>
karamazov424: a couple months playing with it in my free time got me confident enough to apply for a ruby job, leaning on my previous programming experience. after a month of full time work i felt pretty comfortable tackling most problems without much help.
<yorickpeterse>
morning
<existensil>
but i think it probably depends on what languages you are coming from and how long and deep your previous experience is
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<karamazov424>
existensil: Thanks for sharing! I started with PHP, didn't do anything too advanced. Mainly made wordpress do what I want. I've got some JS under my belt too. I've been reading a ruby book non-stop and am feeling pretty good about it.
<apeiros>
karamazov424: couple of hours to get coding, couple of days to get reasonably good code, still learning new tricks after 10 years (it's gotten ever more rare, though)
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<existensil>
karamazov424: i came from PHP and Java. if you've made heavy use of OOP in PHP most of the concepts shouldn't be completely foreign, but wordpress isn't heavy on OOP as I recall.
<karamazov424>
apeiros: Awesome - I've never really planted myself in a language but I plan on investing some serious time into Ruby. PHP was just a means to make money - never cared about really getting deep with it.
<existensil>
clearly ruby takes objects much much more seriously. its objects and message passing all the way down.
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<karamazov424>
existensil: Ive gotten that from the book I'm reading, I love it! It works in my head
<apeiros>
ruby is conceptually quite sound. which made it (for me) very easy to learn (I prefer learning a couple of concepts instead of lots of random words)
<existensil>
yeah, i was dating a developer who just got a job doing ruby and helped her learn it. we didn't work out but fell in love with ruby and haven't really looked back.
<karamazov424>
For the longest time I wanted to be designer/developer but realized that code is my home. I'm done working in Illustrator.
<karamazov424>
I've been reading "Learn to program" by Pines and it's fantastic. I'm able to get creative with what I learn and actually make some basic programs
<existensil>
i like that when i build something in code it is often more objectively measured as good or bad, where as design is so damn subjective most of the time.
<karamazov424>
^
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<karamazov424>
Not that I do this for the money, but I can definitely make more money freelance developing than designing even as a normal developer. You gotta be a really good designer to make the bigger bucks
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<existensil>
that's mostly true. the lack of developers makes the bar a bit lower for landing good gigs as one. heh.
<karamazov424>
that and google is much better at helping with code than design
<apeiros>
existensil: code objectively good or bad? I have difficulties not to laugh :D
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<apeiros>
code quality can be soooo incredibly subjective, it's not even funny :-S
<existensil>
yeah, there are lots of subjective aspects to the quality of code, but there is also objective aspects. you can objectively measure if the code successfully solves a problem or not, if a feature is properly implemented or not.
<existensil>
design has fewer objectively measurable aspects
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<existensil>
you can objectively determine if the 2 hours you spent on something successfully interfaces with the API you're working with. you can't so easily determine if the design assets you spent 2 hours tweaking makes the site look "cool"
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<apeiros>
ask 10 people, measure the responses? :)
<apeiros>
or A/B test user behavior with/without site changes
<existensil>
yeah, but that's not nearly as clean or clear of a feedback loop as a passing test
<apeiros>
tests lie
<existensil>
they clearly both have lots subjective and objective aspects, just saying programming offers a bit more objective feedback
<apeiros>
ok :)
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<existensil>
i mean, in design you can objectively say i successfully created a logo. but whether that logo meets the requirements is a bit tougher to answer.
<existensil>
than the code that renders the logo
<ohsix>
it's not a coincidence your nickname is existensil is it ;]
<existensil>
lol
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<ljarvis>
moin
<plexus_>
moin
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<maloik>
o/
<maloik>
I've never understood why people say "moin"
<apeiros>
it's german
<maloik>
it sounds like a badly pronounced "moan"
* yorickpeterse
moans intensively
<apeiros>
for "good morning"
<apeiros>
also: moin
<maloik>
what does it mean? I've never seen anyone say that IRL
<maloik>
heard*
<existensil>
i thought it was a hyper-abbreviated "[good] morning"
<yorickpeterse>
it's a hipster thing
<yorickpeterse>
super underground
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<apeiros>
maloik: 10:20 apeiros: for "good morning"
<apeiros>
that's what it means. literally.
<maloik>
I don't think anyone really knows, there's just one guy chuckling each time someone says that because he trolled the entire world
<maloik>
:P
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<ljarvis>
I thought it was akin to "ciao", it could mean hello or goodbye
<maloik>
apeiros: it's an abbreviation in german then ?
<maloik>
or dialect?
<apeiros>
oh, actually it means "hello", not just "good morning"
<apeiros>
it's probably better than REXML and already supports html
<yorickpeterse>
isn't that unmaintained?
<bougyman>
i think someone picked it back up
<yorickpeterse>
Also it's still C, I prefer for it to be Ruby
<bougyman>
yeah, last commit 3 months ago
<yorickpeterse>
I *really* don't want to debug more C level bullshit in the future
<yorickpeterse>
bougyman: just a license added it seems
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<yorickpeterse>
Writing a decent XML parser isn't rocket science, it's fucking HTML that's a PITA
<bougyman>
yeah, I see
<bougyman>
'Hpricot is over'
<apeiros>
yorickpeterse: HTML isn't PITA either
<apeiros>
Tagsoup is the issue
<mlangenberg>
Is there a minitest way to see what is different between to hashes? e.g assert_equal with two parsed JSON responses gives a mess in my output.
* apeiros
wrote both html and xml parsers back in his php days
<apeiros>
never took long. but always only worked for valid input
<yorickpeterse>
apeiros: HTML is because in HTML5 you can basically leave out /> in a bunch of places
<yorickpeterse>
so you need a context based parser probably
<apeiros>
yorickpeterse: /> is not part of html
<apeiros>
never was
<apeiros>
html is sgml, which doesn't know that construct
<yorickpeterse>
It was in the good old days of xhtml
<apeiros>
yeeees, xhtml is xml, not html :)
<apeiros>
(or well, xml, not sgml)
<yorickpeterse>
don't get me started on that :P
<apeiros>
I loved the idea of xhtml
<yorickpeterse>
Either way, you'd have to write two separate parser for XML and HTML
<plexus_>
HTML is not SGML BTW.Not any more at least
<yorickpeterse>
and the latter would have to deal with all the bullshit the W3C put in it
<apeiros>
I laughed at all the suckers who complained about "but my *bullshit* no longer renders with xhtml!"
<plexus_>
The HTML5 syntax is no longer based on SGML[33][34] despite the similarity of its markup.
<apeiros>
plexus_: oh lovely
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<apeiros>
so instead of the route of xhtml with better validatability (is that a word?) we're now heading in the opposite direction…
<yorickpeterse>
With HTTP 2.0 being binary based and including a backdoor I'm pretty much done with the W3
<apeiros>
why don't they rename it to CrapML?
<apeiros>
plexus_: thanks for the heads up / info. I was unaware of that :(
<mlangenberg>
Does minitest do an object diff for assert_equal automatically? For two hashes, I keep: A expected but was B.
<plexus_>
HTML5 documents and standardizes HTML parsing, including failure modes
<apeiros>
mlangenberg: iirc it has a setting you can trigger
<ljarvis>
maloik: that arrrrcamp email picture is pretty sexy
<apeiros>
plexus_: so did SGML afaik
<plexus_>
so it's mostly what browsers have been doing, but in a spec
<apeiros>
documenting and standardizing never stopped idiots
<plexus_>
the problem is that browsers never reject anything
<apeiros>
(see M$)
<ljarvis>
maloik: although why is the parrot saying "Rrrra" and not "Arrrr"
<plexus_>
so they never did SGML, or they would refuse invalid input
<plexus_>
in that sense HTML is not a formal language, since a formal language consists of a set of all valid strings in that language
<plexus_>
and everything is considered valid by a browser
<yorickpeterse>
except when that browser is IE
<yorickpeterse>
then everything is invalid
<plexus_>
:)
<bougyman>
mlangenberg: can you cheat and turn it into an array of tuples?
<maloik>
ljarvis: we took the picture and forgot to mirror it
<maloik>
:(
<apeiros>
yorickpeterse: naaa, with IE, everything is valid too, it's just rendered in all randomly invalid ways…
<mlangenberg>
bougyman: well its just for test unit output. Instead of writing tens of assertions, I would like my assertion to be smart enough to tell me what key or value is missing for the JSON object -> Ruby hash
<bougyman>
though if hasha == hashb works, assert_equal would, too
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<ljarvis>
maloik: haha, you suck
<maloik>
nou
* yorickpeterse
slaps ljarvis and starts getting carried away
<yorickpeterse>
police brutality!
<ljarvis>
getting carried away by a medic after you smash you up m8
<apeiros>
I bet in IRC log analyzers, yorickpeterse is marked as the violent guy
<ljarvis>
so herp derp github's new editor - summed up todays news
<yorickpeterse>
which I probably should when I get back home
<ljarvis>
awkward being on there twice
<ljarvis>
ay apeiros?
<ljarvis>
o me too
<maloik>
I couldnt find much on the editor
<maloik>
what's the fuss about ?
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<yorickpeterse>
it's in Node
<yorickpeterse>
that's the fuss
* kalleth
saps yorickpeterse around a bit with a large trout
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<kalleth>
because nodejs is webscale and 'the new hotness'
<kalleth>
(except you have to use javascript for it)
* kalleth
not impressed with node
<apeiros>
ljarvis: I'm a twin by zodiac sign, so I'm good for two
<yorickpeterse>
"saps"?
<apeiros>
yorickpeterse: Statistics generated on Friday 15 November 2013
* apeiros
smacks yorickpeterse
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<apeiros>
slacker!
<yorickpeterse>
apeiros: 10:53:57 yorickpeterse | not updated in a while
<apeiros>
I don't read what you write, sorry :o)
<yorickpeterse>
:<
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<apeiros>
too involved with this horrible code crime I'm committing atm :-S
<kalleth>
i think that's part of becoming a good dev tbh
<kalleth>
i still write horrible code, i just know it's horrible code now
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<kalleth>
~_~
<apeiros>
future me will kill me for that…
<apeiros>
I *am* a good dev
<apeiros>
but this shit isn't worth the time it'd cost to write it properly.
<apeiros>
it's not even worth the time to write it shitty. but alas, I have to :(
* apeiros
hates legacy data
* apeiros
hates legacy data which still accumulates new data
* apeiros
hates legacy data which still accumulates new data without f'ing validations
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<kalleth>
i mean
<yorickpeterse>
at least it's not Mongo
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<apeiros>
and every time I change/fix something, I have to wait some ~4min until everything is started and all data is back in the process chain…
<apeiros>
no, it's horracle
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<apeiros>
but horracle is (for once) not at fault
<apeiros>
this is just data generated in a very shitty way, and I have to somehow sanitize it
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<yorickpeterse>
heh, oracle
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<yorickpeterse>
oh man, I love this new Emoji plugin I installed
<yorickpeterse>
ᕕ(ᐛ)ᕗ
<yorickpeterse>
and of course
<yorickpeterse>
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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<yorickpeterse>
benlovell: re: noko, I would've loved it if it was good old fashioned trolling
<yorickpeterse>
but it's sadly just crap on != MRI
<benlovell>
yah. admirbale of you to take this on
<yorickpeterse>
well, I suppose crap on Rbx because I haven't tried on Jruby/Topaz
<benlovell>
s/admirbale/admirable
<yorickpeterse>
"alas poor yorick" etc
<yorickpeterse>
I'll probably regret this once I read through the actual W3 specs
<yorickpeterse>
Then again the basics of HTML are not that hard (ignoring namespaces and those fucked up <template> tags or w/e they were)
<yorickpeterse>
hm not <template>, there was some tag that did some weird contextual based stuff
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<benlovell>
yorickpeterse: it'll probably be slow as balls too
<benlovell>
but good luck
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<yorickpeterse>
That's an implementation issue
<yorickpeterse>
(assuming the actual parsing/lexing code itself is not the problem)
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<whitequark>
well gee of course it's a problem
<whitequark>
you'll be... let me think, at least two orders of magnitude slower than libxml *shrug*
<whitequark>
I mean, compare parser with mri's parser to get a rough idea.
<yorickpeterse>
What I mean is, given your code is optimal but it's still slow then that's an implementation issue
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<yorickpeterse>
If the opinion is "Write everything in C because it's fast" then, well, ugh
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<yorickpeterse>
Case in point, I
<yorickpeterse>
fuck
<whitequark>
see, as a user, I don't give any fucks whether it's implementation issue or whatever else
<whitequark>
I just hate it because it's slow
<yorickpeterse>
* I'll be doing it in Ruby, if after optimizing it's still slow that's a problem of MRI/Rbx/etc
<whitequark>
shifting blame to the nearest target, how quaint \o/
<yorickpeterse>
You're missing the point
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<yorickpeterse>
Should we write something in assembly because it's faster than Ruby? Don't think so
<yorickpeterse>
If the underlying language can't do shit because of herp derp, then fix the herp derp
<whitequark>
I'd absolutely say we should
<yorickpeterse>
This of course assumes your own stuff isn't the bottleneck
<whitequark>
for example, if you're multiplying a shitton of 4-vectors in Ruby and it's slow, go ahead and add inline assembly with SSE3 instructions
<whitequark>
the trouble with "herp derp", you can only try to optimize the language so much before you get to the point of diminishing returns, where adding to the complexity of a compiler/runtime has more cost (bugs, maintenance, development time) than benefit (speed)
<whitequark>
and *where* that point would be achieved is dependent on language semantics and language semantics alone
<whitequark>
(considering underlying architecture doesn't change, which it is not)
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<yorickpeterse>
My point being that you shouldn't have to resort to C to parse some fucking HTML in reasonable time, Ruby should be more than capable of doing that
<yorickpeterse>
I don't care if it can be done in microseconds, my personal workload is not time bound anyway
<yorickpeterse>
I care about correctness, ease of use, stability, etc
<yorickpeterse>
If somebody is doing HTML parsing in a tight loop in a HTTP request then that's their issue
<whitequark>
well, it all depends on what "reasonable time" is
<whitequark>
if you're scraping thousands of websites you probably want to minimize processing time as much as it's possible
<whitequark>
so, is 100-1000 times slower than C "reasonable"? if yes, sure
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<yorickpeterse>
If you're scraping websites actual parsing is not the overhead
<yorickpeterse>
The biggest factor will be connecting and downloading the fuckers
<yorickpeterse>
It becomes a factor when you're parsing a local 2GB XML/HTML file
<whitequark>
hmm, you're right here
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<yorickpeterse>
Of course I would like it to be fast, but it's not my initial interest
<yorickpeterse>
My first "target" would be for it to work and be stable, then I'll see if I can make it webscale
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<yorickpeterse>
But yes, it will certainly be slower than Nokogiri
<yorickpeterse>
well certainly, it will be, period
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<yorickpeterse>
I'll have to see what toolkits to use though, doubt Racc would be suitable
<yorickpeterse>
(since you need to match things based on content, not just types)
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<yorickpeterse>
well, I suppose that you could assume that opening/closing tags are balanced, you'd have to put some checks in for when that's not the case though
<whitequark>
eh
<whitequark>
you just check it in reduction rule
<whitequark>
I'd absolutely use Racc for XML parsing, given it allows you to implement both SAX and DOM interface on top of it
<whitequark>
but not sure about HTML, with all the error recovery and shit
<yorickpeterse>
that's what I meant with a check, you'd check it in the rule's block
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<whitequark>
if I was in your place I'd still consider Racc for it
<yorickpeterse>
I will, it's the only decent thing out there
<existensil>
nokogiri allows both sax and dom
<yorickpeterse>
I'm aware of that
<existensil>
plus is awesome at html
<yorickpeterse>
the SAX API is shit
<yorickpeterse>
SAX APIs in general are a pain
<existensil>
eh, i had to use it recently, its alright. kind of a callback nightmare but got used to working with it
<existensil>
its just difficult when it can't really maintain any state. would be nice if you at least got a keypath or something for free, but you have to do that manually
<yorickpeterse>
Try writing SAX parsers for 70 websites with radically different HTML
<whitequark>
well that's kinda the point of sax
<yorickpeterse>
While also taking BS such as A/B testing into account
<whitequark>
no strings whatsoever (or O(n) requrements) attached
<existensil>
right, and i needed it. giant xml files. but would have been nice if there were a few more helpers out of the box to make tracking what i needed to a little easier.
<existensil>
yorickpeterse: what i'm doing with nokogiri and sax isn't far off. its actual xml mostly, but from a couple dozen different sources.
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<yorickpeterse>
well, I'm not crazy enough to write 70 SAX parsers, if not way more as some websites return radically different shit for certain requests
<yorickpeterse>
so it would be *at least* 70
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<existensil>
ideally they have shared parts and the actual differences aren't stark, so you have maybe one or maybe a few base parsers with some minor variations beyond that
<yorickpeterse>
haha, shared parts
<yorickpeterse>
When I said "radically different" I meant "radically different"
<yorickpeterse>
with no patterns in between
<yorickpeterse>
I would *love* to be able to use SAX performance wise, but it doesn't work in our case
<yorickpeterse>
DOM parsing is a fat pig, but it's *much* easier
<existensil>
ah. i don't envy that. mine are different, but there are only like variations on like 3 or 4 themes usually
<yorickpeterse>
Pull parsing would be a nice balance, but Nokogiri doesn't have an HTML pull parser
<darix>
yorickpeterse: just curious how do you handle sites that heavily rely on JS to render stuff (discourse does e.g.) do you run some JS engine to execute the stuff and get the final markup?
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<yorickpeterse>
darix: we figure out the underlying services they talk to
<yorickpeterse>
in other words, we bypass the JS
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<headius>
yorickpeterse: nokogiri had an FFI version at one point that shouldn't have any GC interaction
<headius>
the problem here isn't that it's written in C, it's that it's written to MRI's API
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<existensil>
was at a meetup where the nokogiri author claimed the FFI implementation was ridiculously slow compared to now
<yorickpeterse>
not 100% sure it's Nokogiri just yet
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<yorickpeterse>
My problem here is that we might fix this issue, only for 10 others to pop up *somewhere* at some random point in time
<yorickpeterse>
I can't see that being fixed without a rewrite or a different thing
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<yorickpeterse>
plus ugh, libxml
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<ljarvis>
possiby
<ljarvis>
possibly*
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<headius>
looks like libxml2 has been made thread-safe, but you have to compile it with --with-threads and init the parser in the main thread
<ljarvis>
yeah
<headius>
yorickpeterse: have you or brixen tried that?
<yorickpeterse>
headius: No, never heard of that option either
<headius>
I just searched for "libxml2 thread safety" and it was the first hit
<yorickpeterse>
Part of the problem here is that it's hard to figure out if it's Rbx, Nokogiri, libxml, something in between or a combination
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<ljarvis>
and i think that's thread-safe for parsing different docs
<yorickpeterse>
Even with the capi lock Nokogiri seems to misbehave, so I doubt the latest problem I've had is threading related
<headius>
ljarvis: yeah, not for same doc at same time, but that's hopefully obvious
<ljarvis>
(multiple threads parsing the same doc should be managed at the top level anyway)
<ljarvis>
headius: you'd think
<headius>
yorickpeterse: well, didn't dbussink say the C API lock doesn't prevent concurrent GC phases from running?
<ljarvis>
yorickpeterse: if this hasn't been fixed, i'm confused at your request to release a new nokogiri version
<yorickpeterse>
headius: hm, not sure
<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: yeah I talked too soon
<yorickpeterse>
lemme close that one
<ljarvis>
Im on it
<yorickpeterse>
I literally had it crash after that ticket
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<yorickpeterse>
"So I've been running these tests for 2 hours now, they work pretty we...oh it just crashed" - me yesterday
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<yorickpeterse>
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
<ljarvis>
fun
<headius>
looks like nokogiri already compiles with --with-threads
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<ljarvis>
yorickpeterse: I respect you building a pure ruby html parser, but you know how much of a hog that's going to be right?
<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: yes
<yorickpeterse>
it's going to be less than debugging/fixing Nokogiri for the next 6 months
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<yorickpeterse>
plus fuckit, not like I have better things to tdo
<darix>
famous last words
<yorickpeterse>
* to do
<yorickpeterse>
can't be worse than trying to write a compiler in 5 different languages
<ljarvis>
oh but it can
<ljarvis>
there's a reason libxml exists, and that there isn't much competition
<darix>
you can hate xhtml for many things ... but parsing that stuff was easier
<yorickpeterse>
darix: yeah
<yorickpeterse>
I'd take xhtml over html5 any time
<yorickpeterse>
or html in general
<ljarvis>
becuase those guys were on drugs and it can't be competed with
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<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: Hello, meet Yorick
<darix>
yorickpeterse: html5 could have stuck with xhtml syntax and not return to plain SGML
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<yorickpeterse>
I wonder why they decided to ditch xhtml in the first place
<headius>
whiny web devs
<yorickpeterse>
Here you have a somewhat ok spec, that makes more sense than regular HTML and BOOM, fuck it
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<yorickpeterse>
heh
<apeiros>
darix: I'll repeat what I said earlier - I loved that aspect of xhtml and laughed into every whiners face. most people who whined about it did so because they wrote crap html
<ljarvis>
you couldn't built a parser based on xhtml anyway
<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: eh? It would be easier than HTML(5)
<|jemc|>
yorickpeterse: are the encoding issues you encountered in rexml not worth fixing?
<yorickpeterse>
|jemc|: REXML still doesn't do HTML
<yorickpeterse>
plus have you seen the codebase?
<|jemc|>
have not
<ljarvis>
it's stdlib
<ljarvis>
it's a ghetto
<darix>
parsing SGML is *way* more fun than parsing XML
* |jemc|
doesn't parse html or xml, so he's not too familiar with the options
<yorickpeterse>
it's not strictly bad, it's just that you have no clue where to start
<yorickpeterse>
and there's a lot of code in it
<yorickpeterse>
I suspect the encoding errors I've had might've been generic MRI encoding errors honestly
<darix>
apeiros: maybe html 5.1 will give us the syntax back :)
<yorickpeterse>
But I swapped REXML out with some other Gem because I cbf investigating
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<ljarvis>
knu: happy to stop releasing betas of mechanize now that we use bundler, if it's easier (we can just point people to HEAD or a tag)
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<ljarvis>
yorickpeterse: does your company advertise accomodation?
<yorickpeterse>
eh?
<yorickpeterse>
we don't do any advertising that I know of
<ljarvis>
ah ok
<yorickpeterse>
You mean as in, we advertise to rent places at us or something?
<ljarvis>
yorickpeterse: I was curious if any hotels advertised through you
<yorickpeterse>
Oh right, no
<yorickpeterse>
we don't do that kind of stuff, we just aggregate data
<ljarvis>
righto
<yorickpeterse>
We're not some kind of TripAdvisor or Booking
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<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: why? Looking for places to stay?
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<apeiros>
yorickpeterse: what's your audience then?
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<yorickpeterse>
Currently mainly companies that have pages on Tripadvisor, Booking, etc
<yorickpeterse>
but we're doing some "big data" related changes so that will change
<yorickpeterse>
Right now we're basically a SAAS
<yorickpeterse>
which doesn't earn you a lot unless you're called Basecamp
<yorickpeterse>
We also have some deals with a bunch of parties to exchange data
<yorickpeterse>
e.g. Tripadvisor
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<whitequark>
tripadvisor sounds like something drug-related
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<yorickpeterse>
it's only the biggest travel related website in the EU next to Booking.com
<yorickpeterse>
if not outside of the EU as well
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<gnufied>
tripadvisor is probably biggest worldwide
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<yorickpeterse>
Right, time to read through the darn HTML spec
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<centrx>
yorickpeterse, Don't do it. It's a trap.
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<yorickpeterse>
too late
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<badeball>
yorickpeterse: gl & hf
<badeball>
and may the force be wit hyou
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<yorickpeterse>
there, I think I pretty much have a working lexer already
<yorickpeterse>
ignoring of course all the fancy HTML features such as comments
<yorickpeterse>
and namespaces
<yorickpeterse>
and everything else
<badeball>
and every other edge case regarding improperly formatted html that gets rendered correctly, but which you still have to account for if you wish to parse those web pages :D
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<yorickpeterse>
that has nothing to do with lexing
<badeball>
yorickpeterse: true, but I guess you want something more than just a lexer in the end
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: do you know if you can do wilcard actions in Ragel? Something like * => { ... }
<yorickpeterse>
badeball: yeah no shit, but I'm working on the lexer atm
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<whitequark>
what exactly do you want to achieve?
<yorickpeterse>
whitequark: match everything that I haven't defined explicitly
<whitequark>
'any' would match any single symbol
<yorickpeterse>
hm derp
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<yorickpeterse>
ta
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<existensil>
yorickpeterse: alright. i understand why. that actually makes sense. a pure ruby sane html parser would be nice even if it doesn't blaze.
<badeball>
who needs blaze anyway
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<existensil>
though, personally, if i need to treat html like a modern browser does, i'd just lean on webkit via phantomjs. but that's only because i wouldn't enjoy building a ruby solution myself. if you're up for it then that's awesome.
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<existensil>
a pure ruby pull parser? if the memory usage stays constant (which is should) then i'd take a performance hit and swtich some of my stuff to oga
<existensil>
if there was even a hit
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<yorickpeterse>
I'm pretty sure any pure Ruby thing is going to be miles faster than booting up Phantom
<existensil>
true. i wasn't saying i would use phantom for speed. i would use it for accuracy.
<centrx>
If JavaScript is not manipulating the DOM on the page, use Nokogiri
<|jemc|>
what's the acceptable way of raising an exception with the top one or two levels popped off the backtrace?
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<|jemc|>
(I'm writing something that involves FFI and errno and raising an exception for the errno that "looks" like it came from the point of API call
<|jemc|>
rather than from my errno-fetching code
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<centrx>
|jemc|, Use #backtrace ?
<centrx>
|jemc|, Or #caller ?
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<|jemc|>
do I have to raise it, then catch it, then change the caller?
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<apeiros>
|jemc|: IMO none. I hate it when people mess with the backtrace for cosmetic reasons.
<apeiros>
it only makes things harder to follow. simpy don't.
<apeiros>
*simply
<|jemc|>
apeiros: I usually wouldn't but wrapping this FFI code makes it acceptable in my eyes *shrug*
<centrx>
My eyes!
<apeiros>
road to hell is paved with good intentions, or so…
<apeiros>
somebody looking at the backtrace wants the truth
<|jemc|>
I hate that expression; most good things also come from good intentions - it's a fallacy-ridden statement
<|jemc|>
B comes from A so A leads to B
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<|jemc|>
but I do get and respect your point
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<centrx>
|jemc|, You misunderstand the statement
<apeiros>
that's one interpretation. mine is: be careful with your good intentions. the result may not be what you intended.
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<|jemc|>
yeah, I get it
<|jemc|>
it's a pet peeve
* |jemc|
shrugs
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<centrx>
Your good intentions will bite you later
<centrx>
Everyone believes he has good intentions
<apeiros>
let me put it differently: what do you gain by cosmetic alterations of the backtrace?
<apeiros>
what do you lose?
<apeiros>
is it worth it?
<centrx>
MY EYES!
<apeiros>
(IMO the answer to the last question is always no, wrt backtraces)
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<|jemc|>
yeah, and I respect your viewpoint, but I've already answered those questions for myself and answered the last question differently; I appreciate you alerting me that at least part of the community frowns upon it, and that does affect my view on it but not enough to change my mind or to desire to argue the point
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<apeiros>
I'm curious - what do you gain then?
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<crankharder>
for shits and giggles i'm trying to get rake & rake_test_loader.rb to execute tests in random order. however, it seems, even if I pass them in on the command line in a random order they're still actually executed in some order (alphabetical, maybe?)
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<imperator>
aha, after upgrading autotools, i can build ruby on solaris again :)
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<naquad>
x and y are numbers, is there something that return me an array containing numbers since x till y? doing x.upto(y) or (x..y) fails when y is less than x
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<centrx>
y.downto(x) or (y..x)
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<naquad>
centrx, and it'll fail if x < y
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<|jemc|>
so use a ternary
<naquad>
thats what i have now, but i thought there's a better solution
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<tbuehlmann>
what about Range.new(*[x,y].sort)?
<naquad>
tbuehlmann, i thought about that, but imho making new array, then sorting it, then splatting is a bit too much. just the idea was that there's a method that doesn't care about order