apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 1.9.3-p286: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
<shadewind> no you're probably right... it doesn't "feel" like it matters as much here
<Spooner> Sure others would do otherwise. *waits for opinion landslide*
<shadewind> not to say that it matters terribly in C++ either
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<shadewind> although some C++ nazi would probably beg to differ
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<Spooner> I'd make class methods if they used civars or were factory methods, say. I can see your point about utilities though; there isn't really any reason to put them on the instance, but there also isn't any reason to put them in the class either.
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<Spooner> shadewind : Just put them in a Module instead. Best of all worlds ;)
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<frem> I'm trying to parse a CSV that Excel spit out, but Ruby stops on the first line. https://gist.github.com/b8106602fa1a0bdc481e
<frem> Any ideas?
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<Spooner> shadewind : Ah, one argument for making such a method static in Java is that you don't have an implicit self. In Ruby, you still get a self in a class method; it is just that it is the class rather than the instance.
<shadewind> but there's an argument to why it wouldn't really matter since in Ruby, a class is no less an object than one of its instances
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<Spooner> Yep.
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<shadewind> in C++, a class is very far from an object
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<Spooner> Indeed.
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<shadewind> Java is probably closer to Ruby in that respect but static methods, of course, are not members of the class object
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<shadewind> hmm... I think they are in Obj-C though
<shadewind> don't quite remember
<Spooner> frem Dunno. You only give one like and it doesn't look like it has the 4 expected values in it. You might try fastercsv rather than the standard csv, but no idea if that would help.
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<Spooner> *You only give one line
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<Spooner> frem Also you might want to specify the :col_sep, since it doesn't look like you are looking at a comma separated file (tab? Space?).
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<frem> It's comma separated, and there are four fields.
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<shadewind> for removing all matches of a regex from a string, should I use gsub or is there something specific for removing stuff?
<Spooner> Oh, I see. I was thinking wc -l was showning the first line (sort of like a reverse tail). Silly me!
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<Spooner> shadewind : Yeah, gsub /.../, '' does the job best
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<Spooner> frem No clue then. Do the 4 values get passed into the block correctly the first (and only) time it is run?
<shadewind> about those missing parentheses... do people usually do that?
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<Spooner> I generally skip them unless I need them, for example when chaining or doing a more complex expression. Noone will cry if you use parens all the time though.
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<shadewind> I don't want to be "that guy", the one where you can see he's coming from another language
<Spooner> shadewind : Even a simple 'puts "hello"' is calling a method without parenthesis, after all.
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<shadewind> Spooner: some coding convention told me "only omit parentheses for keyword-like built-in calls with a single argument" or something along those lines
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<Spooner> Nah, leaving off parens on if is pretty important, so is 10.times do, rather than using for or similar constructs. Yeah, I've seen that too. Many people follow that.
<frem> Spooner: looks like the input file isn't a properly encoded as UTF-8
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<shadewind> Spooner: yeah, I try to always use some kind of iterator instead
<Spooner> shadewind : And #puts even takes any number of arguments as do many of those other system methods. *shrugs*
<shadewind> Spooner: but mostly because it's nicer
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<Spooner> while x < 10; x += 1; end will mark you out as a noob quicker than saying "Hey, Python is cool" in your comments ;)
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<Pip> Is Ruby more OO than Python?
<shadewind> definitely
<shadewind> I haven't done much python but the OO in Python seemed more like a hacky afterthought than anything else
<Spooner> I'd say it is, yes. Python is more OO than C++ and PHP though, but that isn't hard ;)
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<frem> Python has most of Ruby's OO capabilities, but they're not all exposed nearly as nicely.
<shadewind> I stronly dislike the explicit self argument in Python methods
<Spooner> Yeah, not many languages are built on OO. Hacky afterthought is very obvious in some though. Interestingly, I was noticing how much functional stuff had crept into Ruby, so Ruby is OO, but with functional hacky afterthought :D
<shadewind> but maybe they've gotten rid of that
<frem> explicit self is still a thing
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<Spooner> frem Try 1.succ in Python and tell me it is OO ;)
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<shadewind> Spooner: honestly, Ruby doesn't even try to be a functional language
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<shadewind> and I mean that in a positive way
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<Spooner> It doesn't but it has a lot of stuff like Proc.curry, and method chaining which is clearly inspired by functional. I don't mean that it is a functional language.
<frem> Spooner: You can redefined True and False to be each other. That's OO enough for most things I'd do. ;)
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<shadewind> Spooner: right
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<shadewind> but the implementation of those features do not seem hacky to me
<Spooner> Not regular method chaining, I mean all those things like #map and #inject, which allow for a certain style o fchaining.
<shadewind> not in the way that explicit self in Python does
<shadewind> mhm
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<shadewind> but they are still imperatives
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<fauxmight> While in the response_handler of imap.idle Is there a way to access the methods associated with the imap instance being idle'd?
<Spooner> Well, for example, to curry, we need to explicitly #curry. In a functional language, there is implicit currying. No difference to the explicit self issue, I don't think.
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<Spooner> I think we could have implicit currying, but it would break old code that didn't use it, so we have to do it manually. But then again, Ruby doesn't say it is functional in the way that Python says it is OO, as you are saying.
<shadewind> Spooner: yes, that was exactly my thinking
<shadewind> explicit self feels like something you'd do in C
<shadewind> since there is no langauge support for such a feature
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<Spooner> Does Python require explicit self for methods or are you talking about needing to pass the first argument as self manually? I found the way Lua managed that kind of horrible afterthought-hacky, but maybe it was just trying to please everyone all the time...
<Spooner> *kind of thing horrible
<shadewind> Spooner: I don't really use Python but when declaring a method in Python, you have to explicitly declare self as an argument to the method
<Spooner> Yeah, that seems a bit gah.
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<shadewind> "Compared with other programming languages, Python'€™s class mechanism adds classes with a minimum of new syntax and semantic"
<Spooner> Not as bad as having to explicity extract parameters in Perl functions though (but I am hopeful they've got past that by now!).
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<Spooner> shadewind : I find that a lot. I've looked at a few language docs in the last week (well, Haskell and Go) and whenever they talk about syntax being cleaner than other languages, they are specifically only talking about C++/Java, because they seemed just about as verbose as any other very high level language I've seen.
<Spooner> If not more so :D
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<shadewind> I personally don't care that much about syntax or verbosity in general
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<shadewind> I never found verbosity to be the problem with Java actually
<shadewind> I had more issues with Java as a platform than the language itself
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<Spooner> Really?
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<shadewind> it simply isn't suited for the things I usually like to do
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<shadewind> i.e. client side apps, embedded stuff, graphics, GPU processor et.c.
<shadewind> processing*
<shadewind> my tool of choice for lower level stuff is usually a subset of C++
<shadewind> or Objective-C if it's for the Mac
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<Spooner> Dunno, Ruby is good for GPU stuff ;) Not like Ruby slows down your GPU.
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<shadewind> no, but OpenCL is a C API
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<shadewind> there are bindings but it's just simpler to do that in C
<Spooner> And Ruby is no good at binding to C APIs?
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<shadewind> dunno, I haven't used Ruby enough yet
<CaptainJet> Hint: It is
<Spooner> Thanks CaptainJet ;)
<shadewind> probably
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<shadewind> when I run into something that would be much simpler to do in Ruby, I'll interface with Ruby
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<shadewind> I try to not get too attached to my tools
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<Spooner> Ruby is ideal for managing C stuff where the "stuff" does a lot and the code wrapping that API doesn't need to do a lot (or at least doesn't need to be performant). Of course, it relies on bindings being made :)
<shadewind> Spooner: yeah, I agree, it seems great for that
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<shadewind> my current project consists mostly of a tight inner loop and lots of juggling of data between OpenCL and OpenGL et.c.
<shadewind> there's isn't much managing done
<Spooner> Has anyone actually used Ruby-OpenCL? I've had a lot of success with running shaders from Ruby, but I don't really have much use for other parallel processing.
<shadewind> so I might as well stick to C in the meantime
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<Spooner> Ah yes, Ruby doesn't do well at "juggling data" :D
<shadewind> Spooner: it doesn't?
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<shadewind> or rather, please elaborate :)
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<Spooner> Well, I mean it isn't so great at playing with binary data and converting it to and from Ruby data. Good Ruby<->C stuff has a narrow aperture :D
<shadewind> Spooner: right, that's what I thought
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<shadewind> Ruby-OpenCL seems a bit... dead
<Spooner> My thing, by the way, is writing 2D games in Ruby, so I often cry at Ruby's ability to manipulate data in anything like a realtime way (and yes, Ruby is a bad fit for what I do, but I am contrary).
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<shadewind> Spooner: well there are both disadvantages and advantages I suppose
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<Spooner> Well, writing C extensions to support my perversion is sort of counter to the idea that Ruby is nice and doesn't segfault all over you, but what the hell?
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<shadewind> segfaults build your character
<shadewind> it makes you a man
<Spooner> Good job I was a man to start with then.
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<Servidorv> hey guys
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<Servidorv> good nights
<Spooner> shadewind : So what are you doing with OpenCL? Predicting the end of the world from data collected from puddles in Wales?
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<Servidorv> i have a question, can anyone check my code and see if it does what is supposed too?? i tested it but it returns the array but without the .map, the code is supposed to merge 2 arrays, delete duplicate, and .map 3 new keys
<shadewind> Spooner: it's for my thesis project, a spring-damper simulation 3d ultra sound data intended to aid in medical visualization
<shadewind> Spooner: sounds fancier than it is though
<shadewind> missing an "of" in that sentence
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<Spooner> servidorv : If you use map as your last thing, you don't need to explicitly return userlist.
<Servidorv> oh ok,
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<Servidorv> so that was the problem right??
<Spooner> Also you can do commtotal = comments[id] || 0 (which is a tad shorter).
<Servidorv> thanks i will change it
<Spooner> servidorv : As it is, it maps userlist, then returns the _original_ userlist.
<Servidorv> yeap the problem was the return then
<Servidorv> :)
<Servidorv> do you think it is a good coding?? or is it too newby??
<Spooner> Got to remember that the result of the last statement is returned and that map (unlike #map!) doesn't change the original code.
<Servidorv> yeah, is my first time codding ruby, ive been on it for the past 2 weeks
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<Spooner> It is probably OK, but hard to see from that snippet what it could be.
<Servidorv> thanks man
<Servidorv> :)
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<Spooner> Oh, we generally use do-end rather than {} when multilining a block (e.g. your uniq! block should be {} but the map should be do...end). That is just stylistic though.
<CaptainJet> i personally like {} better
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<Servidorv> :) thanks for the tips guys
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<micsha> I have a quick question, if I've built ruby from source, how do I uninstall it?
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<lurraca> anyone knows the regexp to match all strings starting with / ?
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<lurraca> looks like /^\//.match('/test')
<lurraca> should work
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<aa10123> Can some one point me to a good explanation of why everyone's compiling their own ruby rather than using the version that ship with the distros?
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<aa10123> and maybe this is related, but is there a way to tell gem to use an alternate install location?
<Spooner> aa10123 : Often the distro version isn't up to date. Also it is harder to manage multiple versions when installing that way.
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<aa10123> Spooner: why would you use multiple versions? I'm new to ruby.
<Spooner> aa10123 : RVM or rbenv will let you install to your home dir, which makes life simpler.
<aa10123> Spooner: yeah but from a deployment perspective, rvm and rbenv are madness
<Spooner> aa10123 : Developers often need to test against multiple versions. At the moment, 1.9.3 is latest, but 1.8.7 is still popular, though soon will lose support.
<Spooner> I am not sure what you mean by "madness"?
<Spooner> You mean compiling compared to getting binaries?
<postmodern> aa10123, if your deploying custom rubies, just use ruby-build, install into /usr/local/ configure PATH accordingly
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<postmodern> aa10123, also Ubuntu 12 and Fedora 17 both provide 1.9.x ruby packages
<aa10123> Spooner: yeah, compared to binaries, in that binaries can be compiled once against known vetted sources, then deployed.
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<Spooner> postmodern : Yes, but I'm guessing they are several patches behind what you get via RVM.
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<aa10123> The idea of compiling ruby on my appserver isn't very appealing
<postmodern> Spooner, only for 1.8.7
<Spooner> (and, at times, even a version behind)
<aa10123> postmodern: right so exactly. that's fairly new. why can't I find anything like virtualenv (showing my Python roots) that lets me use the system interpreter with an isolated set of modules?
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<Spooner> And various other distros are less good at keeping up (I am pretty sure CentOS people have complained about that).
<postmodern> Spooner, not that far behind, plus the maintainers back-port the security patches
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<waxjar> os x still comes with 1.8.7 :s
<aa10123> Spooner: and developers often need multiple versions, but as a web developer who just wants to hack on a rails app with a colleague, rvm is a lot to swallow
<postmodern> aa10123, im not familiar with virtual env
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<Spooner> waxjar : It does, but that is the system installation, not the versions available optionally from package managers.
<waxjar> i know :p
<aa10123> postmodern: basically, virtualenv does the equivalent of installing your gems to a place separate from your system library and then wraps python to use that place.
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<Spooner> aa10123 : If you just want one version and aren't developing a lot of different applications, then a system install of one version is fine.
<postmodern> Spooner, waxjar, although 1.8.x is going to be abandoned next year, someone should open a bug on Apple's issue tracker
<postmodern> aa10123, oh, checkout chgems and chruby
<aa10123> postmodern: \o/ that sounds promising
<medik_> Why does not this work?
<Spooner> Yeah, I know it is going to be around for a long time (1.8,7).
<postmodern> aa10123, been using them exclusively for a month now
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<postmodern> Spooner, but 1.8.7 is going to be abandoned, EOLed, game over man
<waxjar> \o/
<postmodern> Spooner, im not sure it's wise to package unmaintained software
<Spooner> And that means people will stop using it bevcause? ;)
<aa10123> postmodern: thanks a bunch. exactly what I was looking for.
<postmodern> Spooner, security vulnerabilities
<postmodern> aa10123, excellent, test it out, submit issues as necessary
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<Spooner> postmodern : Security is the theory, and I'm sure it will push some people, but others will see the huge cost of updating vs the possibility of security holes (which will only appear over time).
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<postmodern> Spooner, also unfixed bugs
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<postmodern> Spooner, actually people could just run one of the many update scripts
<postmodern> Spooner, or migrate to rubinius/jruby
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<Spooner> migrating to jruby rubinius just delays the issue or is the 1.8.7 deprecation only for CRuby/YARV?
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<postmodern> Spooner, atleast rubinius/jruby have a maintained 1.8.7
<postmodern> Spooner, they will eventually disable it
<postmodern> Spooner, as they migrate to 1.9/2.0
<postmodern> Spooner, basically, migrate or die :(
<Spooner> Well, 2.0 won't be much used for a couple of years, so it is hardly relevant.
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<Spooner> In terms of being able to leap from 1.8 to 2.0, that is.
<medik_> No one? :(
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<Spooner> medik : I'd worry about the file being read forever, but maybe you should say how it "doesn't work" more precisely.
<postmodern> Spooner, ruby-trunk is already 2.0
<postmodern> Spooner, and it's more of an incremental leap from 1.9
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<Spooner> medik : Well, for another you seek to the end of the file then presumably can't find anything there, which "works" if that is your intention.
<Spooner> postmodern : Well, that is true. Still, I expect it to be a year before it is commonly used (based on it being 6 months before it is formally released). People are wary of the bleeding edge, however stable it is.
<swarley> dude. I invented a whole class & method api using preprocessors and structs in C just to do this XML parser
<medik_> Spooner: My intention is to make this program act like tail -f <file>. To keep print out the logfile
<Spooner> medik_ : That is quite important information if you want us to assess whether it does what you expect it to.
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<lurraca> Hi
<medik_> Spooner: Yeah, I'm sorry about that. My english is poor. I need to think a lot before writing.
<lurraca> I;m looking for a regexp to a match the beginning of a given url
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<lurraca> something like this
<swarley> lurraca; which beginning
<swarley> the procotol?
<swarley> http://
<swarley> ?
<lurraca> but my example doesn't work..
<Spooner> medik : But sadly, I can't help you but maybe you might look at https://github.com/flori/file-tail ?
<swarley> That's because none of that is well formed regex
<Spooner> lurraca : You need to escape / in a // delimited regexp: /^http:\/\/www.google.com./ or use something like %r{^http://www.google.com.}
<Spooner> Oh and escape the . :$
<swarley> /^http\:\/\/(?:[A-z0-9]+\.)+\/(.+?)/.match("http://www.google.com/testing")
<medik_> Spooner: I've looked at it. Well, that's a compromise; but I guess it will work for now.
<swarley> oh mine fails
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<Spooner> medik : Well, either see how they do it or use that gem :)
<medik_> Spooner: The closest to answer I come is this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1293695/watch-read-a-growing-log-file-with-ruby
<lurraca> swirly, this what I'm trying to do… I'll have a list of links ["http://www.google.com/mail', "http://www.google.com/services"] and i want to check that against the root url that will be "http://www.google.com"
<lurraca> swarley
<swarley> ah
<Spooner> swirly!
<swarley> then you should be able to do something like
<medik_> Spooner: Probably :) Thanks anyway.
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<lurraca> what I want to know if url from my list belongs to a given domain name
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<swarley> you can use any link in place of the /mail link
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<lurraca> got it
<lurraca> that should work
<lurraca> thanks guys!
<swarley> no problem
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<swarley> you know, it would be more motivating to finish this library if i knew people would use it
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<swarley> but then i look at it and think to myself. You're joking
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<shevy> swarley hehehe
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<shevy> I want mruby finished
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<idiocrash> DUDES
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<swarley> ya?
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<shevy> GIRLS
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<davidcelis> ya?
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<shevy> I thought where are DUDES must be GIRLS not far away
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<Banistergalaxy> Im a pretty girl
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<davidcelis> Banistergalaxy: no
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<coderhut_> Hello, I am calling a simple ruby file using following php system command and its working fine so far. Now I have a php array that I want to pass to this ruby file. What is the best approach to do this?
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<coderhut_> Hello, I am calling a simple ruby file using following php system command and its working fine so far. Now I have a php array that I want to pass to this ruby file. What is the best approach to do this?
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<shevy> coderhut_ hmm does php allow system commands to pass arguments?
<shevy> ah you have a .rb file and call a .php file
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<shevy> you can use `` to return results of that .php script
<shevy> result = `php foo.php`
<coderhut_> shevy yes it allows calling .rb file but i am not sure about sending arguments using system command
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<coderhut_> here is my two line php script which is calling ruby successfully but now i want to pass array to that ruby file too
<coderhut_> $rbFile = 'path/to/file.rb'; system($cmd = "ruby $rbFile", $status);
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<happymoment> hello
<nyuszika7h> hi
<happymoment> whts happening
<happymoment> sofar
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<shevy> I am learning C again!
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<shevy> for(i=0;i<sizeof(arr);i++) yay! ugly!
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<ABK> @shevy: it's good you're not going C++0x it's much more mutated :)
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<shevy> well C++ is odd
<shevy> I am a minimal learner, I want to learn a bit, but not more
<shevy> only to the point where I can understand 70-90% of the code in a language at maximum
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<Agis__> which editor you guys prefer. sublime text 2 or vim?
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<rking> Agis__: Sublime has fancier defaults, but so far I haven't found one thing from it that I don't get from vim.
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<Agis__> rking: so what you think vim has that sublime doesn't?
<rking> Any GUI vs. Console application battle is tie-broken with the winner being console, because it works inside tmux and over ssh
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<Agis__> i see
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<Agis__> so in terms of how productive, and fast you do things there's no a clear advantage?
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<rking> Agis__: That's a good question. I'd have to really pore over subl's features to figure out what it lacks, but http://www.sublimetext.com/docs/2/vintage.html looks like a fairly wimpy implementation of vi keys
<rking> I'd be extremely hard-pressed to imagine someone beating a vimmer on actual editing
<Agis__> nice
<shevy> Agis__ if the choice is between these two then sublime
<rking> Plus there's tying yourself to a commercial project, which I hate.
<shevy> the console argument works the other way too - gvim will always look like crap :)
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<shevy> I always found it odd that vim on screenshots looks better when not run as gvim
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<rking> I've never found an advantage to gvim.
<Agis__> vim on destroyallsoftware looks great btw :P
<shevy> Agis__ a gvim vim?
<Agis__> i think it's just vim
<rking> Maybe as training wheels for having a clickable set of menus at first?
<shevy> haha like for bicycles? :)
<Agis__> i'm a junior dev, I've started with sublime 2 and still use it, but I wanna try vim now
<shevy> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/tutorials/l-vi/gvim.gif the COLOURS are killing my eyes, if you zoom into that...
<Agis__> i still can't get used to using h,j,k,l and not the arrows ;p
<shevy> bright pink and bright teal on WHITE background
<shevy> Agis__ aha those I found not so bad
<shevy> I got tired of having to remember too much. when I realized I want to learn only 5% and never more, I switched to ...
<shevy> NOTEPAD!!!
<Agis__> hah
<shevy> in vim it seems as if it follows the "there is more than one way to do it" philosophy
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<Agis__> yes
<shevy> you can use markers, but you can also jump to line numbers directly, and you can also search for something... so those are three ways to jump to a file _at least_
<rking> Agis__: Heh. The destroyallsoftware .vimrc example unmaps the arrow keys to train you to hjkl
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<shevy> see?
<shevy> it's like a religion... it tries to change your brain :)
<Agis__> oh
<Agis__> hah
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<rking> shevy: Have you seen this? http://vimgolf.com/
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<shevy> hmm no have not
<shevy> it looks odd
<shevy> wtf
<shevy> I dont understand python
<shevy> :(
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<rking> shevy: No, that entry is dumb.
<rking> The translation makes no sense, and even if it did, it'd be a bad example of translating Python to Ruby (e.g., it shows off nothing of Ruby. Just add some "end"s and lose some ":"s)
<shevy> hmm
<shevy> perhaps that was the masterplan
<shevy> bitter pythonistas
<shevy> showcasing that python is better than ruby :)
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<rking> No, the author was plain goofing up
<rking> n = add(1 + 1)
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<rking> n = add(1, 2)
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<Agis__> /j vim
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<symeog> hey guys, i am a newcomer in ruby world and i am interested in web development. can anyone here help me how to begin ? i am working on a mac if that interests you.
<ecksit> hey symeog and welcome. :)
<symeog> nice to meet you ecksit
<ecksit> i started with learning ruby first then i moved onto a web framework. do you have previous programming experience?
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<symeog> i do have c# and .net programming experience. yes
<symeog> i also know OOP concepts well i guess
<ecksit> that isn't a /bad/ thing in this case. :p
<symeog> ok :)
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<timtux> ecksit: buy a book!
<timtux> :D
<timtux> symeog: *
<symeog> don't you want to ask me why i didn't prefer to go with ASP.NET MVC ?
<timtux> symeog: no we all understand that
<ecksit> not really symeog. the fact you are here is a plus :p
<troessner> :D
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<troessner> well, there is this little known framework called rails i hear
<symeog> thanks!!!!!
<troessner> maybe that's a starting point
<ecksit> timtux: i didn't buy a book (and spend money on ruby) until i played with ruby and was happy with continuing.
<timtux> ecksit: taight
<symeog> thats the point ecksit . u r in my mind!
<symeog> so can you help me with that ? where do i start ?
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<ecksit> i started with nettuts ruby tutorials.
<symeog> i think i already have ruby and rails on my machine though…i am on a mountain lion
<symeog> when i type ruby -v i get ruby 1.9.3p194 (2012-04-20 revision 35410) [x86_64-darwin12.2.0]
<timtux> symeog: you have ruby but probably not railz
<symeog> when i type rails -v i get Rails 3.2.8
<symeog> that's it
<timtux> symeog: but starta out with ruby, without rails.
<ecksit> nice. that is easy then :p
<symeog> i think u r right here timtux
<ecksit> rails hides much of the heavy lifting behind the framework and it is good to know those things before getting into rails.
<symeog> but lets confirm that i have ruby atm
<symeog> yes ecksit i am not i n a huury
<ecksit> ruby -v in the terminal
<symeog> i wanna learn the right way
<symeog> when i type ruby -v i get ruby 1.9.3p194 (2012-04-20 revision 35410) [x86_64-darwin12.2.0]
<timtux> and remembah, may the irb be with you. (open terminal, typ irb)
<ecksit> you're set to go then
<symeog> and follow the link of timtux ?
<ecksit> symeog: when it is time, i highly recommend eloquent ruby by russ olsen as a book.
<symeog> ok i ll keep that in mind :)
<symeog> but i am in the baby phase right now :)
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<symeog> so first thing is the try ruby i guess ?
<ecksit> then went to the try ruby site
<symeog> right !!! i am gonna follow this route too
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<symeog> so when i finish them i ll get back to you with questions and then guide me from there right ?
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<symeog> what web framework to follow etc…thats what i mean…i only heard of rails and sinatra so far
<symeog> but ok i won't go in this discussion noiw
<symeog> i have to try ruby first:)
<ecksit> both have pretty separate goals.
<timtux> symeog: rails is a good way to go. But don't worry about tha right now. Learn about ruby first and write a few tools or such first.
<ecksit> i find rails for web apps and sinatara kills it as a API framework.
<symeog> so…i ll be staying on line of course and get back to you later
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<ecksit> we'll be here
<symeog> i rally appreciate you help so far and i hope it stays that way :)
<Dwarf> Good morning
<symeog> if you have anything more please feel to share it…i ll be watching...
<Dwarf> I get the following error: main.rb:273:in `each': closed stream (IOError)
<Dwarf> from main.rb:273:in `include?'
<ecksit> read code. lots of it.
<Dwarf> from main.rb:273:in `<main>'
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<symeog> oh…and one more thing….what editors/ide or tools i ll be needing ?
<Dwarf> From the following piece of code: if ($admins.include? $issuer.downcase)
<ecksit> i use vim symeog
<symeog> does textamte works ? or maybe vim ? or sublime 2 ? or bbedit ? or emacs ? lol
<burgestrand> symeog: any editor is fine
<symeog> is there an IDE too ?
<Dwarf> $admins is defined like so:
<Dwarf> f = File.open("conf/admins.txt")
<Dwarf> $admins = f.each_line {|line|}
<Dwarf> f.close
<ecksit> jetbrains have rubymine. never used it.
<burgestrand> symeog: http://www.jetbrains.com/ruby/
<symeog> i swear this was the final question…..for now :)
<burgestrand> symeog: haven't used it either
<burgestrand> symeog: questions are free, keep em coming :)
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<ecksit> i prefer vim because i still write PHP and use the terminal 90% of the time.
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<Iszak> ecksit you using zsh?
<ecksit> indeed
<symeog> really thank you guys…i don't write php so i am starting out with text mate and see…otherwise i a moving to vim
<Iszak> respect.
<Iszak> ecksit tmux?
<ecksit> symeog: as long as you can write code in it, it doesn't matter.
<ecksit> not yet Iszak
<ecksit> was looking at it yesterday
<symeog> yeah!!
<Iszak> ecksit what os you use?
<ecksit> macc o
<ecksit> mac os
<Iszak> ah, poor mans unix, I'm the same.
<ecksit> i wasn't aware you could use $ in ruby
<Dwarf> Yap, I've been told it's a global var
<Dwarf> Much like @
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<ecksit> ewww
<troessner> Dwarf, ecksit yes, and you shouldnt do it like that
<troessner> globals are bad
<troessner> and in this case utterly useless anyway
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<Iszak> Dwarf won't work, you need to create the array and push each new line onto it.
<Dwarf> Meh, it doesn't have anything to do with the error, so there's no need to remove it for now
<Iszak> at least that's my understanding of it.
<Dwarf> Ah
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<troessner> Dwarf, it does have to do with the error
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<Dwarf> The error would still persist if the $ wasn't there, I'm sure
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<troessner> Dwarf, File.readlines('your_file').each { |line| # do something here }
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<troessner> or lines = File.readlines('your_file')
<troessner> and then work on `lines`
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<Dwarf> e.g.
<Dwarf> File.readlines('conf/admins.txt').each { |line| $admins.insert(-1, line) }
<Dwarf> ?
<Dwarf> I'm going to assume -1 is the end of the array
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<troessner> Dwarf, hard to tell if this is right since i don't know the purpose of your script, but sure, give it a shot
<troessner> ;)
<heftig> $admins = File.readlines('conf/admins.txt')
<Dwarf> Aye, heftig is right
<Iszak> what's the difference between File.readlines vs IO.readlines ?
<Dwarf> It threw an error that i had to define the var first
<heftig> Iszak: none. File < IO
<Iszak> really? IO extends File, thought it would be opposite.
<Iszak> thanks.
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<heftig> File extends IO
<Dwarf> So are you recommending I do IO isntead of File?
<Dwarf> What's the gain?
<Iszak> Dwarf that's what I want to know.
<heftig> 2 less characters in the code
<heftig> so basically nothing
<Iszak> Dwarf do you want the new line characters in the result?
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<Dwarf> Nope
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<Iszak> okay so deadlines AFAIK will have the new line characters, not sure how it'll work with other line endings, carriage returns, will need to remove them.
<Iszak> s/deadlines/readlines/
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<Dwarf> yay
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<Dwarf> So ehm
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<Iszak> Dwarf it's easy, just map + strip, there's probably a better way to do it.
<Dwarf> Next problem! :)
<Spooner> $admins = File.readlines('conf/admins.txt').map &:chomp
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<Dwarf> Would .chop work?
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<Spooner> .chop only removed the last character. .chomp removed any sort of newline.
<Iszak> Dwarf yeah chomp is better, strip will remove whitespace as well.
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<Dwarf> ah
<Dwarf> Alright
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<Iszak> I need to be in here more often, I'll learn so much.
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<Dwarf> And the & does what exactly?
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<Spooner> Dwarf: Sorry, that is shorthand for File.readlines('conf/admins.txt').map {|line| line.chomp }
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<Dwarf> Alright, thanks :)
<Iszak> Spooner maybe you want to tell him exactly what & does? I would benefit from it as well.
<syskk> im trying to run a ruby script and getting the following error: `posterous2disqus.rb:1:in `require': no such file to load -- posterous (LoadError)` I tried to `gem install posterous` but still getting the same error. Anyone can help?
<Spooner> Means to apply #chomp to every line. You probably want to work through some basics of Ruby though, rather than leaping in (if you couldn't work out why it needed you to make $admins an Array before inserting onto it, I assume you are very new to programming).
<Iszak> Spooner no I mean the to_proc stuff.
<Spooner> syskk : require 'rubygems' before you require that gem.
<estan> hi folks. is it possible to have gems both in a standard location (e.g. /usr/local), but also in another location (et.c. /opt/gems)? that is, if i use these instructions http://docs.rubygems.org/read/chapter/15#page101 , will i still be able to use gems in /usr/local?
<Spooner> syskk : Or stop using the old version of ruby ;)
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<syskk> Spooner: thanks. any reason why original author didnt do that?
<syskk> Spooner: ah, got it
<estan> (my goal is that i want both the gems in the standard location (/usr/local on my system) and some gems that i install to e.g. /opt/gems available for all users)
<syskk> Spooner: what's the recommended way to install ruby on os x?
<Dwarf> Spooner: not new, but some languages will do it for you if it's not defined ;)
<Dwarf> New to ruby, yes
<Spooner> syskk It isn't about the author doing it. Unless you manually require rubygems in Ruby 1.8.7, it doesn't know where to look for gems.
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<Spooner> Dwarf : I'm interested to know which languages would do that. I'm pretty sure I can't think of any.
<Iszak> syskk jury is out I'd day, but you can use rvm, rbenv (I'm assuming), macports
<Iszak> s/day/say/
<Dwarf> Mmmm
<syskk> ok Iszak
<Dwarf> PHP
<Dwarf> iirc
<Dwarf> Might be completely wrong tho
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<Dwarf> Now
<Dwarf> Another problem
<Spooner> Dwarf : Nope. It won't generate an array if you push to null. It, like Ruby, doesn't force you to declare variables before use though.
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<Dwarf> Ah
<Dwarf> I see
<scroduck> bro, %Q{} is heredoc? %{} is also heredoc, how exactly it works?
<Spooner> Iszak : Sorry, I got sidetracked. I'll leave & unless you are very new.
<Spooner> *you are very keen ;)
<Iszak> Spooner I'm very keen :)
<Dwarf> I remember something like foreach($array as $key=>$value) { $newarray[$key] = $value; } to work th
<Dwarf> tho
<Dwarf> But with array_push it doesn't work indeed
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<Dwarf> Spooner, I think that was for scroduck ;)
<Dwarf> Now, I might be doing the next thing very wrong (mainly because it doesn't do anything)
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<Spooner> Dwarf : '$var' is a global variable in Ruby and 'var' is a local. '$var' is a local in PHP.
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<Dwarf> That doesn't append to the text file
<Dwarf> Aye
<Dwarf> I know :)
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<Spooner> You don't need to manually close files if you use a block properly. File.open("bleh", "a") do |f| f.puts "bleh" end
<Dwarf> Ah
<Dwarf> So removing that would make it work?
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<Dwarf> Or is there more broken about it?
<Spooner> Also, we don't use parentheis around if (and we use unless, ratehr tahn if !). Thus: unless $admins.include? name.downcase
<GLEG> i got a little problem. i installed something with "gem install" and the interpreter used by the file generated by RubyGems is "#!/usr/local/Cellar/ruby/1.9.3-p286/bin/ruby". why is that? i never ever want that. i want the path under my shell to be used (/usr/local/bin/ruby). or even better, i would like to specify "#!/usr/bin/env ruby" and always use that if it's possible
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<Spooner> Dwarf : Dunno, but it should work as I stated (though I don't see anything _wrong_ with your code).
<Dwarf> Strange
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<Dwarf> open('conf/admins.txt', 'a') {|f| f.puts name.downcase}
<Dwarf> That would work too, right?
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<Spooner> Dwarf : I recommend you work through a tutorial to get more of a feel for Ruby (rather than trying to write PHP in Ruby ;)). e.g. http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/ - you'll be able to skip through the earlier stuff, since it starts very slow with 2 + 2, but soon gets to more meaty topics ;)
<Dwarf> Mhm
<Dwarf> I'm kinda doing the "learn as you go" approach
<Dwarf> Porting this from PHP to ruby hehe
<Dwarf> Altho the ruby version is more advanced already
<Dwarf> Go figure
<Spooner> Dwarf : Yeah, but if that means you are going to ask a simple question every 2 minutes, that would be answered on page 1 of a tutorial, then it isn't the best way ;)
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<Dwarf> True, true
<Dwarf> Good thing I'm a big fan of RTFM :D
<Spooner> Dwarf : And yes, open('conf/admins.txt', 'a') {|f| f.puts name.downcase} would work. {} and do...end are (_mostly_) synonyms, but we generally use the former for single-line blocks and the latter for multiline blocks.
<Dwarf> I figured as much :) Don'
<Dwarf> I don't even know why I used do
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<Spooner> 'do' was correct since you were using a multi-line block in the pasted code.
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<workmad3> Spooner: you don't follow wierich's rule for {} vs do/end? :)
<scroduck> bro, %Q{} is heredoc? %{} is also heredoc, how exactly it works?
<Spooner> I don't know what the rule is, workmad3
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<Dwarf> But the f.close wasn't needed, so can't hurt to make it an one liner ;)
<workmad3> Spooner: iirc, it's that {} should be used when you care about the return value of the block, do/end should be used otherwise
<Spooner> Dwarf : Absolutely.
<Dwarf> Sweet, it's working now :D
<Spooner> workmad3 : Ah, yes. No, I don't like that, but can see a reason to use {} in multiline blocks if you are chaining (though I don't; I rather avoid chaining in multilines :D).
<scroduck> thanks spon
<ecksit> anyone purchase sublime?
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<Spooner> Dwarf : I suspect #open and File#open were working differently (the former is actually IO#open). I always use File#open. It only closes the file handle for you if you use the block version. If you do: f = File.open("bleh"); f.puts "bleh"; you do have to manually f.close
<Dwarf> Alright
<Dwarf> Using the block version again since I need to reload the array now :D
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<Spooner> They are both "blocks", actually, regardless of which syntax or how many lines it spans.
<Spooner> Ack, that was a flurry. *rests*
<Dwarf> heh
<Dwarf> You're real helpful
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<ecksit> what purpose does: Version = VERSION = '0.17.0.b6' do?
<ecksit> wouldn't is make sense to omit the first operator and var?
<Mon_Ouie> Maybe there are some automated tools, etc. that expect VERSION in all caps
<ecksit> maybe. i thought is was standards with constants though.
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<Spooner> ecksit : It does: Version = (VERSION = '0.17.0.b6') - That is, it sets the value of VERSION = '0.17.0.b6', then sets Version to the value of VERSION
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<ecksit> yeah but why waste another assignment?
<Spooner> I don't understand. It is setting two constants to the same value in one expression.
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<ecksit> dw
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<Spooner> It could be written VERSION = '0.17.0.b6'; Version = VERSION but that would be more code.
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<scroduck> i just have a piece of ruby code that i would like to understand, would someone be interested in explaining in PM as its not a specific question ?
<Mon_Ouie> He's asking why they have both constants
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<Mon_Ouie> (or so I assume)
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<ecksit> I understand Spooner but the question is why they both map to the same value. Why not just use one?
<Mon_Ouie> https://github.com/libgit2/rugged And this is what I assume to be the project
<ecksit> indeed Mon_Ouie
<Spooner> scroduck : Just stick it on pastie.org and paste the url.
<scroduck> Spooner: http://pastie.org/5088739
<scroduck> i dont understand a bit except 9 and 11 :D
<Spooner> Mon_Ouie : Yeah, but what ecksit was saying made me think it was a syntax question.
<scroduck> :(
<ecksit> ah nah
<Spooner> scroduck : You don't need to know about that file, since it is something internal in Rubygems created when you install a gem.
<scroduck> hm ok
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<Spooner> scroduck : I could explain what it does, but it would seem a little redundant. It just adds a new CLI command for you (sass-convert).
<Spooner> scroduck : "See sass-convert --help for further information and options."
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<Spooner> Mon_Ouie ecksit: The Version == VERSION thing seems to be pretty common. Odd, I'd not noticed it before. Probably something they put in Rails and everyone copied it (I feel that is an explanation I can run with, even if it isn't true :D).
<ecksit> fair game
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<Spooner> Well, mustache, gist, hub, resque, flamingo gems at least (I got bored of looking).
<ecksit> logic would dictate just use VERSION = ''. i cannot see the logic of double assignment.
<Spooner> There are reasons for synonyms, but mainly when someone realises they have done it wrong (Version =) and want to correct it without breaking old code.
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<shevy> Spooner!
<shevy> Where is Knifer!
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<shevy> wtf is mustache... is that a misspelled thing you carry in your face?
<Spooner> It is a templating thing, like erb (but without evaluation).
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<Mon_Ouie> It's no more of a missepling than color, center, or behavior
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<Spooner> They are all WRONG (except center, which has a different meaning to centre ;) ).
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<shevy> hmm ... colour to color and moustache to mustache is the same simplification in american english?
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<shevy> missepling :)
<Mon_Ouie> Heh. It seems missepling actually means something. :p
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<mparodi> Hello guys
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<shevy> hi parodi
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<syskk> im getting native extension build errors on os x :/
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<shevy> syskk beat os x down man!
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<Agis__> hey guys, which vim color scheme would u suggest?
<hoelzro> Agis__: I like peaksea.
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<ecksit> i rock monokai here
<Agis__> peak sea seems nice, jelly beans too
<syskk> shevy: still won't do it :(
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<Spooner> syskk : Fails to compile particular gems or all of them? You have xcode and the compiler CLI stuff installed?
<syskk> Spooner: I dont know, first time I install a gem
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<syskk> Spooner: I do have xcode but maybe not the cli tools
<syskk> Spooner: taking forever to downloas
<Spooner> Does it say something like "make not found" in the errors?
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<syskk> Spooner: make: gcc-4.2: No such file or directory
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<Spooner> syskk : "open Xcode, go to Preferences -> Downloads -> Components -> Command Line Tools"
<syskk> Spooner: I tried that but Command Line Tools is not listed
<syskk> Spooner: only 3 iOS stuff listed
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<syskk> Spooner: :(
<Spooner> You have XCode installed though?
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<syskk> Spooner: yes… in Preferences -> Downloads -> Components -> Command Line Tools, all i see is iOS stuff
<Spooner> I've never used OSX. I'm just guessing here based on previous problems.
<syskk> Spooner: I do have gcc, thats the weird thing
<syskk> $ gcc -v [master]
<syskk> Using built-in specs.
<syskk> Target: i686-apple-darwin11
<syskk> etc.
* Spooner shrugs.
<Spooner> You need an OSX bod, like Mon_Ouie, to help. Sorry.
<syskk> @Mon_Ouie :)
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<nyuszika7h> hi, is there a getopt-like module for ruby? like this: disconnect -n freenode -r Reconnecting
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<syskk> Spooner: I aliased gcc-4.2 to gcc, lets see what it does :D
<Spooner> nyuszika7h : In standard lib, optparse, but I'd recommend the slop gem.
<nyuszika7h> ok
<nyuszika7h> thanks :)
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<GranMal> Does anyone have a good algorithm for extracting a relevant image from a spidered page with Nokogiri? Or, is there a better gem for spidering pages?
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<syskk> Spooner: lol fixed the problem by sym linking gcc-4.2 to gcc -_-
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<Spooner> syskk : Duh ;)
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<matti> Eh.
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<colinta> Is there a simple way to have a proc run after being called N times? aka underscore's after function http://underscorejs.org/#after
<colinta> I *wrote* a method to do this, but now I'm thinking I just reinvented a wheel
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<colinta> btw, this question is a race between the #rubymotion IRC channel and this one.
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<colinta> 27 members over there, to 634 over here.
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<rweng> MyModule::ImportError vs MyModule::Import::Error - what would you prefere? MyModule::Import is a normal class
<colinta> is MyModule::Import the only class that uses that class?
<rweng> jupp
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<colinta> MyModule::Import::Error then, i suppose. that puts Import::Error into a very small box ("i won't use it outside of the Import class")
<rweng> guess that is a good question to figure where to put it :)
<rweng> yeah
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<rweng> thanks!
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<Spooner> colinta : Not sure that method really fits the way Ruby runs, compared to javascript. Rather than use a magic "after", I'd just threads.each &:join before doing the bit I want to wait for.
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<colinta> interesting... i'm not using threads, per se, just a bunch of async calls (to parse-sdk)
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<Spooner> They block though? So how do you run them without threads (without just running them consecutively)
<colinta> well there are threads somewhere in there, but I'm not creating them. and this is on ios, so i'm not encouraged to "touch" the threads so much
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<colinta> it's a bunch of `fetchInBackground` calls to ParseSDK, and when *all* of them are done, i will call the callback that my method was handed
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<colinta> each call to `fetchInbackground` accepts a callback, and in that callback i'm increasing the count of N. once N == my number of objects, I call the "real" callback
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<colinta> (callback == proc)
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<Spooner> Yeah, but if they are non-blocking, then they'd all just complete immediately and you'd not know when they are completed. Oh right. Just "sleep 0.1 until n == 6" then. I was misunderstanding what after did (and no, I don't think that is a pattern I've seen before in Ruby, but I am not all-seeing).
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<colinta> Spooner: it's a something I pulled out of my time with node.js, where you have tons of callbacks/async calls, and you often need to gather them together in this way. i'm gonna go on my merry way, then, and just use the methods i wrote. i haven't seen anything built into ruby that does the same thing
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<Spooner> Yeah, it should be pretty simple to implement.
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<ddd> spec.files = FileList['lib/**/*.rb', 'bin/*', '[A-Z]*', 'test/**/*'].to_a
<ddd> but tells me there is no FileList (under 1.9.3-p286)
<ddd> did FileList become deprecated?
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<Spooner> Nope, but it is available in Rake, not in gemspecs. Use Dir[] instead.
<ddd> gotcha. thanks. thought it was pure ruby.
<ddd> err s/pure/core/
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<Spooner> They do the same thing, but FileLists are easier to mutate (with #exclude, etc).
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<Spooner> ddd I mean that Dir[] just gives you a string array, whereas FileList is a magic class that acts like an Array.
<ddd> yeah i was trying to replace my Dir["File.join(File.dirname(__FILE__), '../../*.rb')"].each with something smaller and slightly more readable, but thats fine.
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<syskk> when install jekyll (rake install) : ERROR: Could not find a valid gem 'kramdown' (= 0.13.7) in any repository
<syskk> I tried bundle install but getting the same error
<ddd> and being able to specify additional dirs to read for files like the FileList was showing would have been nice too. but i'll keep using the Dir
<syskk> also getting Error Bundler::HTTPError during request to dependency API
<Spooner> ddd FileLists only don't need to know about __FILE__ because Rake files set the cwd.
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<ddd> syskk: that last error isn't really an error
<ddd> RG shut down the dependency API server due to load issues for now
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<Spooner> I think bundler is a bit broken at the mo.
<ddd> it'll be back at a future date
<syskk> ddd: ahh.. any way i can still install jekyll?
<syskk> :(
<syskk> what should I do?
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<ddd> the problem is the kramdown gem not jekyll unless that file is no longer available (been yanked) on RG
<syskk> i was able to install a newer version of kramdown
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<ddd> yeah that particular revision might no longer be pooled
<Spooner> syskk: You could manually install the gem (gem install kramdown --verson "=0.13.7")
<syskk> Spooner: tried that but it wont find it.
<Spooner> But that would get old quickly, since there will be a lot of dependencies.
<syskk> Spooner: where can i tell rake that im fine with the newer version?
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<syskk> Spooner: its not in Gemfile
<ddd> look for where the dep is defined. might actually be in the jekyll gem (its jekyll.gemspec)
<Spooner> syskk : It will be in the Gemfile.lock?
<syskk> Spooner: well, bundle install worked suddenly
<Spooner> It is flakey at the mo ;)
<ddd> but that would mean a custom gem build if they did that, if as spooner said its not in your Gemfile and not locked with the Gemfile.lock (but most gems don't ship the .lock file)
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<Spooner> No point shipping .lock with a gem. It is usually only shipped with apps.
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<ddd> yep
<Spooner> I had real problems pushing a new gem yesterday, in spite of rubygems saying that bit is working. I think too many people have suddenly become Rails hipsters and the world is coming crashing down!
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<ddd> hah
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<shevy> ack
<shevy> to get rid of the file end
<shevy> x[0..-5]
<shevy> or am I being dumb again? hmmmmmm
<shevy> x = "foo.txt" # => "foo.txt"; x[0..-5] # => "foo"
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<Spooner> x = "foo.txt"; File.basename(x, File.extname(x)) # Ugly, eh?
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<Spooner> shevy : Though yours works _if_ it is a 3-letter extension, of course.
<CaptainJet> I've done that exact code before =(
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<shevy> hmm now that you say it... indeed, my code will fail when I meet .jpeg
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<Spooner> Or .gz or whatever, yes. Or any file without an extension.
<shevy> ah... hmmm
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<yakko> hey guys, on my last 2 ruby instalations (downloaded sources), I see that I need to run "gem" as a sudoer, which user should install ruby so that doesn't happen?
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<swarley> yakko; what distribution do you use?
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<yakko> swarley: debian/ubuntu
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<swarley> On debian based distros i've only been able to use gem as a sudoer
<swarley> the only way around that is to use a non default install prefix
<yakko> swarley: did you install them as root?
<yakko> them=ruby
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<swarley> like i said
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<swarley> the way around that is with the install prefix
<yakko> swarley: you mean sudo make install ?
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<swarley> ./configure --prefix=/home/`whoami`/ruby_install/
<swarley> that's just an example
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<yakko> swarley: I don't understand
<yakko> but thanks anyways
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<swarley> it doesnt matter who you compile/install it as
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<swarley> its because gem is trying to put the files in /usr/local/
<swarley> which is off limits to a normal user
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<swarley> so you have to change where it puts the files
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<yakko> swarley: oh, so it only works in RVM
<yakko> now I get it
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<swarley> :|
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<yakko> swarley: can I make the dir ownable by my user?
<yakko> owned, whatever
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<swarley> i would really not recommend that
<swarley> that is a huge security hole
<swarley> like, major
<yakko> swarley: yeah, well thanks
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<yakko> if you had come to my rescue 10 seconds earlier I would not have removed ruby from my VPS lol
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<yakko> installed again
<yakko> :)
<yakko> swarley: you use chef?
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<yakko> I've been willing to give it a try
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<swarley> No idea whaat chef is to be honest. I've heard of it though
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<swarley> I'm too lazy to grep right now, would anyone happen to know if ruby includes stdbool.h?
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<Spooner> swarley : Don't think it does. I was able to include it myself though.
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<swarley> kk
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<swarley> Meh, i can just live with defining TRUE and FALSE
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<matti> swarley: _Bool is funky.
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<matti> swarley: I'd go with 0, 1 #define or with likely / unlikely macros ;]
<matti> swarley: Pssyt, remember about !! idiom ;]
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<Spooner> swarley : Because #include <stdbool.h> is just _so_ much typing?
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<swarley> Spooner; no, because i'd rather not mess with windows dependencies
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<Spooner> swarley : Seems over-careful. I'm sure it has decent guards to stop it from destroying mankind ;)
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<Spooner> swarley : But my only external dependencies were OpenGL and GLee, so maybe you have more horrific things included.
<swarley> Spooner; i just added #ifdef TRUE #define TRUE etc
<swarley> it wasnt that big a deal
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<swarley> i just needed macros to return from state process
<swarley> 0 and 1 just something to check if(state(text, stack))
<swarley> etc
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<swarley> Spooner; my main thing is avoiding any and all dependencies
<swarley> i have terrible NIH
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<Spooner> swarley : I noticed.
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<swarley> :p
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<pmros> hi!
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<arietis> why def foo(a, b, *c) puts a, b, c end works with foo(1, 2, 3, 4)?
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<arietis> c means array of optional parameters or what? :S
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<caleb_io> arietis all remaining params after C are put into an array.
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<swarley> arietis; its because *c means all arguments after the first 2 are put into an array
<swarley> *c is called a splat
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<shevy> arietis you can pass as many arguments as you want after a *foo
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<shevy> so you can call def foo(*i) as ... foo() ... foo(1) ... foo(1,2) ... foo(1,2,3)
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<swarley> oh man, i swear to god, if the C preprocessor was recursive, i would have made something cool lol
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<arietis> how come array[-3] works for array = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7]?
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<Rhynn> the -3 counts backwards from the end if I recall correctly
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<Spooner> Rhynn : Yeah, -1 is the last, -2 is the penultimate, etc.
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<arietis> is it harder to maintain ruby on servers if compare to php?
<matti> A bit.
<Spooner> arietis : Pity Array isn't documented ro you could look that up yourself http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/Array.html#method-i-5B-5D
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<matti> arietis: But with mod_passenger etc is almost as easy.
<arietis> Spooner: a[-1] = "Z" #=> ["A", "Z"]
<arietis> :)
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<Spooner> arietis : Well, assuming a already equals ["A", something] yes.
<Spooner> Or you may have meant to say a = ["A", "Z"]; a[-1] #=> "Z"
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<arietis> matti: it's just annoying that in order to use ruby i need cloud hosting
<Spooner> arietis : #=> means that the expression before returns this value, so a[-1] = "Z" will actually be #=> "Z" ;)
<arietis> since there are no web hostings which support ruby web
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<arietis> i pay 1 euro per month for my php hosting
<Spooner> arietis : You don't if you are using a standard web host to host a standard thing like Rails (there are PLENTY of Rails hosts that aren't "cloud"). You need cloud hosting only if you are doing something unusual.
<arietis> Spooner: i'm using sinatra
<arietis> :)
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<Spooner> You said Ruby web, not Sinatra.
<arietis> but sinatra is web aswell
<arietis> isn't it?
<Spooner> It is, but you said there were no ways to do Ruby web without cloud hosting and that it was really difficult because of that.
<arietis> true
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<Spooner> I'll admit that Heroku et al are very expensive (if you only want something trivial), but they do have free options.
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<pmros> what about openshift?
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<Spooner> pmros : Is openshift entirely free? I know Heroku free is a bit nerfed (goes to sleep) and although I looked at appfog, I couldn't see if their free was 100% working or not.
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<egn> hi, is there a "default module" that gets loaded when you fire up irb? I'm using module_eval inside another module and I want it to eval as if it were in irb's default state
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<conor_ireland> Spooner: openshift itself is free, they have a paid option iirc
<Spooner> conor_ireland : Yeah, but so do appfog and Heroku. It doesn't tell you if the free version is fully-functional though (that is, doesn't put the process to sleep). A website that takes 30s to load a page is useful for development (if no-one has accessed it for an hour), but less so for low-scale production use.
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<conor_ireland> Spooner: I watched them on floss weekly when they launched - irrc they said it is free and always free but when they release a paid option that will grow in line with the free version
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<pmros> free openshift option gives you much more than free heroku option
<Spooner> conor_ireland : yeah, jsut found https://openshift.redhat.com/community/developers/pricing
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<conor_ireland> Spooner: in practice though you would have to check out their irc and ask real people who have used it
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<tbrock> hey guys, how would you make a custom parser for json by extending the json gem?
<Spooner> pmros : Yes, appfog also seemed to be more generous (up to 16 processes, max 2GB memory total) compared to any number of completely separate dynos on Heroku. openshift is 3 processes, so is somewhere in between, I'd say.
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<Spooner> Oh right, openshift is 3 processes, each 512MB RAM, so less than appfog. I'll shut up and try one of them again to see which suits me, since I have a Sinatra/mongodb app I never got around to doing properly because Heroku free was a bit sleepd ;)
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<Spooner> tbrock : What do you need a custom parser for? (I don't know how to extend the json gem, but I'm wondering if you really need to do so).
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<tbrock> Spooner, I'm working with some data that is "extended json", it has some types that aren't strict json types
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<pmros> Spooner: I didn't know appfog
<pmros> it looks great
<Spooner> pmros : I haven't used it apart from setting up an account there.
<Spooner> tbrock : Ah, I didn't know there was such a thing. Good luck ;)
<swarley> man, if C's preprocessor was a full implementation of m4 i would have just made something cool
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<Spooner> tbrock is it the Mongo extended JSON or similar? Looks like it is still just compliant JSON, but you could just walk the result replacing output hashes that matched { "$binary" : "%B£^BASDFC", "$type" : "bleh" } with the Ruby equivalent. That is, rather than parsing it specially.
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<swarley> Spooner; look at what this XML library keeps turning into http://pastebin.com/SkeYS8J5
<Spooner> swarley <redrum><redrum><redrum><redrum><redrum><redrum></redrum></redrum></redrum></redrum></redrum></redrum> ???
<swarley> no, a C preprocessor clusterfuck
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<swarley> that technically doesnt work because of the implementation
<swarley> it would if it used a full m4 preprocessor :c
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* Spooner is none the wiser.
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<swarley> well
<swarley> this is the full code
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<tbrock> Spooner, yeah ok
<tbrock> thanks
<tbrock> peace guys, gotta go
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<FatGuy> Anyone use Eclipse as an IDE?
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<Spooner> swarley: All this talk of c preprocessors is making me hungry. Bon chance!
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<pmros> FatGuy: I use Aptana, that it's based on Eclipse
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<awc737> gem install rails does not work on ruby 1.9 debian
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<shevy> I got so many ruby scripts...
<shevy> awc737 debian hates gem
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<awc737> mm :/
<swarley> lol
<swarley> yeah
<ccooke> well, to be fair, gem hates debian too :-)
<swarley> you have to compile it yoursefl
<swarley> yourself
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<swarley> and use --prefix=/home/`whoami`/<somedirhere> when you configure
<shevy> these options are available (1) you stay within the debian world, which means you need to install rails in the way debian tells you to (2) you use some other ruby, like RVM ruby, or self-compiled (3) you change the path of debian's default, messed up gem path (see at output of "gem env" also do "gem list") (4) you realize that debian is ran by monkeys and stop using it altogether (best option in the long run
<shevy> for your own sanity really)
<swarley> and add that to your path
<otters> where does gem install executables to
<shevy> depens on the default prefix of your ruby install
<shevy> depends
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<swarley> uhm, i think /usr/local/bin/gem/bind/
<shevy> hmm executables...
<swarley> err
<swarley> bin/
<shevy> yeah bin/ subfolder of ruby SITEDIR
<shevy> if --prefix=/usr was used, this should be /usr/bin/ then
<shevy> swarley, hmm really twice bin/ ? /usr/local/bin/gem/bin/
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<swarley> yeah sorry, i need to rethink that one
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<swarley> it looks like /usr/local/bin
<swarley> /usr/local/bin/rake
<swarley> yeah, thats from which rake
<swarley> /exec -o which rake
<shevy> and your ruby is at /usr/local/bin/ruby right?
<swarley> yeah
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<shevy> k
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<shevy> some are not :)
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<shevy> when /usr/local/bin/rake exists and a /usr/bin/ruby
<swarley> that's why i recommend using --prefix on debian if you cant use sudo
<dhonig> How to create namespaced elements with Builder::XML
<shevy> awc737 there is a rant by a debian developer against ruby
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<awc737> why would he rant against ruby
<swarley> because debian has a weird file structure
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<shevy> awc737, because the packaging in debian is not so easy, the debian developers say it is ruby (or gem's) fault
<awc737> oh i see
<shevy> "I have finally reached a decision regarding my involvement in the Debian Ruby packaging efforts."
<shevy> "I have decided to stop."
<shevy> hehe :)
<shevy> swarley, well the debian mentality is that everything needs to fit into the debian world
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<shevy> which is ok IF they tell newbies what to do in case of gem + ruby on debian
<swarley> What’s the stable Ruby branch? 1.8 or 1.9? If it’s 1.9, why are people still actively developing in the ruby_1_8 branch? How long will they continue to be maintained in parallel, dividing the manpower?
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<swarley> That's how i feel about the 1.8 branch as well
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<shevy> the problem is that debian has idiots
<swarley> it should be wiped off the face of the earth so that people will finally move to 1.9
<shevy> "they're not distribution maintainers. It's not their area of expertise, and to be frank, they're doing a very poor job at that. I trust the Debian maintainers, because I know them, I have been one myself, and they made an amazing distribution, which haven't failed me since I first installed it in 1999."
<shevy> quite an attitude :)
<shevy> swarley I still write compatible for 1.8 because I hate the Encoding change
<shevy> for the most part I can avoid problems via # Encoding: ASCII-8BIT
<shevy> but not for all. one script I have fails to recognize umlauts
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<shevy> the script works fine on 1.8
<shevy> man this is epic:
<shevy> "At that point, I made a vow: if I ever have to use anything ruby, it will be from the Debian repository."
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<swarley> meh. I personally have no reason to ever touch the 1.8 executable again
<shevy> awc737 you should make a vow too perhaps :)
<swarley> Lol, if he does that, he'll end up screwed
<shevy> though I have to say, debian was the first distribution I liked
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<swarley> I like the arch bleeding edge concept
<shevy> xorg server was not working, but this was good, it forced me to work through the handbook and so I learned the UNIX way :)
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<awc737> uhh
<awc737> i am using from deb repo
<awc737> which vow should i take?
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<shevy> I had SuSE before, that thing had a handbook 5x as large, and it sucked 50x more
<awc737> im using 1.9
<shevy> awc737 to only use debian-ruby solutions :)))
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<awc737> thats all i did
<shevy> btw Hanmac uses debian + ruby, he is good (he is offline right now)
<awc737> everything i did was from apt-get
<shevy> \o/
<swarley> the thing i hate most abot debian installing ruby is that if you apt-get install ruby (this used to be true, i'm not sure if it still is) it defaults to 1.8
<swarley> about*
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<mauo> nick mauo
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<shevy> HAHAHA this is awesome, please look swarley:
<shevy> "gem update ?system is disabled on Debian. RubyGems can be updated using the official Debian repositories by aptitude or apt-get."
<shevy> I think they really really really... love gem :)
<swarley> :|
<shevy> swarley hmm I thought that changed already
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<shevy> checking for sqlite3.h? no
<shevy> "OK, screw this. It?s bed time."
<shevy> hahaha :D
<shevy> that's another disease... not providing header files by default
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<shevy> that's the old "we are a server distribution, we need no stinking header files. And besides, our users are dumb anyway."
<swarley> Description-en: Transitional package for ruby1.8
<swarley> that comes from
<swarley> apt-cache stats ruby
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<shevy> hmmm odd... perhaps ubuntu switched to 1.9.x? I think Hanmac said something that ruby 1.9 is the latest on debian now... I'll ask him when he gets back
<swarley> This is a transitional package which ensures that users of ruby will use
<swarley> ruby1.8 in the future. It can safely be removed.
<shevy> aha
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<swarley> you have to specify ruby1.9.1-full
<swarley> to get gem, and everything
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<swarley> that has everything but the tk bindings
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<pmros> I love arch :)
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<epitron> best package manager ever
<epitron> most packages ever
<swarley> best package manager ever is bzip
<epitron> nope.. xz :)
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<pmros> pacman
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<swarley> epitron; nope, xz uses too much memory
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<swarley> I can extract files on my 128mb ram computer with bzip, but not with the xz version
<swarley> xz one runs out of memory to allocate
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<epitron> does that make bzip the best? or your computer the worst? :)
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<swarley> it was just a joke :p
<swarley> but the computer is awful
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<pmros> one day, troshka will rule the world!!!
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<pmros> I have to go
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<Spooner> swarley : That is great ;)
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<swarley> hit alt three times xD
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<pmros> lol
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<swarley> HOLY MOTHER OF JESUS TESTICLES. WHY CANT I JUST WRITE THIS PARSER
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<matti> swarley: ;/
<matti> swarley: You embarked on writing XML parser in C.
<swarley> well, the hardest part, is making myself keep working on it
<matti> swarley: Your subconcious is working trying to minimise potential brain damage this causes.
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<GuidovanPossum> but there are already Ruby xml parsers right why the need for more?
<Spooner> GuidovanPossum : Don't ask that question. It will only rile him :D
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<davidcelis> did you know: if you have to force yourself to keep doing something, it's because you don't want to do that something and probably shouldn't be doing that something?
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<swarley> Yeah probably
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<swarley> GuidovanPossum; i know, and i've given up on finding a good reason why
<swarley> at this point its just to prove to myself that i can finish something
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<GuidovanPossum> I've used hpricot, and I know people tell me it's outdated, to make animations from two xml keyframes and enjoy it
<swarley> GuidovanPossum; that's how this started. Its a... meh forget it. no point in explaining it
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<swarley> Lol, I finally finished the first parser callback. And not all of the functions i call within it are even implemented
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<atmosx> hello
<FifthWall> howdy
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<atmosx> good thanks u?
<atmosx> easiest way to convert utf-8 to ascii?
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<workmad3> atmosx: it's either trivial (for codepoints 0-127) or pretty much impossible
<matti> Hi workmad3
<workmad3> hey matti
<waxjar> what's the convention regarding file structure for extensions of classes like String?
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<atmosx> ah did it.
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<atmosx> no it's not all I need was -> ready2roll = utf8_word.force_encoding("ASCII")
<atmosx> ty however
<workmad3> atmosx: that doesn't convert
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<workmad3> atmosx: all that does is say 'interpret these bytes as ASCII rather than UTF8'
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<workmad3> atmosx: which is all that's needed for unicode code-points 0-127 (which are identical to ASCII) but will cause weird data corruption otherwise
<workmad3> atmosx: hence it's either trivial or pretty much impossible
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<atmosx> works for me :-P
<atmosx> but thanks for explaining anyway
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<havenn> I propose... the SleepyFizzBuzz >.> : https://gist.github.com/3925123
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<Spooner> havenn : What next, GridFizzBuzz?
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<Spooner> havenn : The OpenFizzBuzz Project?
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<Spooner> CloudBuzz? ;)
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