<Spooner>
swarley : The problem with that argument is that noone needs to use sockets any more, so a high level language doesn't make it easier to use a socket, it provides abstractions above that.
<swarley>
Meh, i still mess with sockets
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<swarley>
so that's how i judge a language for my use
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<swarley>
its not the best judge
<swarley>
but its one that's relevant for me
<ablankfield>
hmmm
<lecreme>
hi
<ablankfield>
I still don't understand the difference between OO and functional or the other type of language you mentioned
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<swarley>
Well, have you ever done any fucntional programming?
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<ablankfield>
is javascript functional?
<swarley>
the best way to explain functional programming, is that if you say that x = 4, you cant say later that x = 5 because then you're lying
<swarley>
no, javascript is OO/procedural
<ablankfield>
huh... maybe I've only been trying OO languages then lol
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<ablankfield>
is C++ functional?
<blazes816>
c++ is OO
<swarley>
C++ is procedural with OO capabilities
<blazes816>
that would be a more correct way to say it
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<ablankfield>
I just wikipedia'd functional programming. It says something about haskell and lisp... never tried either of those lol
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<swarley>
Yeah, let me show you a haskell example really quickly
<ablankfield>
alright
<blazes816>
i'd probably exit the chan before you see that example
<ablankfield>
why?
<ablankfield>
will I poop myself? lol
<blazes816>
i'm just kidding. I can't stand haskell
<ablankfield>
oh
<blazes816>
lol, you just might
<Spooner>
I thought it was interesting, but I couldn't think of anything to use it for (though admittedly I've only read a few chapters on it).
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<ablankfield>
I have a few hours to chat tonight. I'm cutting back on intake of programming knowledge until I understand some of the fundamentals
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<swarley>
factorial :: (Num a) => a -> a
<swarley>
factorial x
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<swarley>
| x < 0 = 1
<swarley>
| otherwise = x * (x-1)
<ablankfield>
mhmmmm... that looks like alien talk
<ablankfield>
speaking of which, what does the => mean in ruby?
<waxjar>
i'd really like to learn haskell properly some time
<Spooner>
It meant a rocket ;)
<waxjar>
=> separates the key from a value in a Hash
<ablankfield>
so fast rocket a slower rocket a?
<swarley>
=> in ruby means association in a hash
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<swarley>
but what i just pasted was haskell
<ablankfield>
yeah
<ablankfield>
I went through the try ruby page on code school and I remember seeing the => in the hash section
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<swarley>
=> in ruby is tASSOC (to use the lexer token name) to denote association in a hash, and -> is a shortcut for the lambda keyword
<ablankfield>
or maybe it was when I was looking at rails
<waxjar>
{ :key => "value" }
<Spooner>
I think one problem here is that I get the impression that you don't know any language to any degree, so it will be hard to explain the difference between language styles in terms of code.
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<ablankfield>
ohhhhh I think I get it
<Spooner>
And statting to talk about lexers and tASSOC would confuse most people.
<ablankfield>
so { :ablankfield => "doesn't quite understand programming" }
<swarley>
yeah sorry, i dont know what compelled me to reference that
<waxjar>
that's valid yeah, ablankfield
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<ablankfield>
what is ruby used for?
<swarley>
its a general use language
<swarley>
but mostly, people get paid to use it for web applications
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<waxjar>
it's mostly used for websites (rails, sinatra), but there's loads and loads more you can do with it
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<swarley>
Personally, i use it for just about everything you can imagine
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* swarley
works for a minute
<Spooner>
swarley Do you use it to program self-aware killer robots so they can take over the world?
<ablankfield>
is there anything I should learn or practice/get good at before I really try to program things?
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<swarley>
Spooner; you mean my roomba? of course
<ablankfield>
people really have those?
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<swarley>
ablankfield; there are actual robot versions that you can program
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<ablankfield>
I thought roomba's were just filler for bags of crap on woot
<swarley>
that arent vacuums
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<swarley>
And to be honest
<ablankfield>
is ruby good for robotics stuff?
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<swarley>
You're going to make mistakes, a lot of mistakes
<brainbox>
whats the equivalent of textmate on linux? recently moved from osx
<swarley>
The only thing you can do is keep at it and learn more about it
<waxjar>
it helps to be familiar with logic, i think. thinking of every possible case, for example
<swarley>
brainbox; look at sublime text 2
<swarley>
i believe it uses textmate as a base
<ablankfield>
I love sublime text 2
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<ablankfield>
zen coding and paraphraser makes it cake
<swarley>
its a free trial, you dont actually have to buy, and the free version only has a minor (and i mean extremely minor) annoyance
<ablankfield>
but it is annoying
<swarley>
Yeah, all you have to do is click okay though
<ablankfield>
that and it wont open if he makes a new release
<brainbox>
ruby support in sublime?
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<ablankfield>
kind of a forced upgrade\
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<swarley>
Yes, it has good syntax hilighting
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<swarley>
I use it when i'm not using vim
<ablankfield>
wait... you can use ruby in sublime text?
<ablankfield>
I just installed eclipse but maybe I'll grab sublime again
<brainbox>
swarley: does it have document completion?
<swarley>
Yes
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<brainbox>
great, I'll give it a go
<swarley>
Are you talking about snippet tab complete?
<ablankfield>
sublime text is one of the best things i've used especially for web dev
<brainbox>
swarley: thought more about completion based on current document contents
<swarley>
Ah, i believe so
<swarley>
I know that it uses text mate packages
<swarley>
so, you can probably find most features in there
<ablankfield>
plus it has that command line thing for getting packages
<brainbox>
sounds perfect
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<ablankfield>
if you use it like a boss then its well worth the 70 bucks or whatever it is for a license
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<waxjar>
if you like text mate, you'll love sublime text 2
<brainbox>
also, in addition to a text editor, I need a full blown ide, what is the best one for linux? i'm thinking either eclipse or idea
<ablankfield>
I like eclipse, but I've never tried idea
<waxjar>
what do you need an IDE for?
<brainbox>
waxjar: for bigger projects, I need it for heavy organizing
<blazes816>
brainbox: I just use sublime text these days, but I remember Aptana Studio working really well for me
<brainbox>
class trees, reference updating, etc
<waxjar>
hmm okay
<brainbox>
it's just some of the things that a fullblown ide brings I think
<brainbox>
for large projects I just cant do without
<ablankfield>
I wish there was a program that turned a laptop monitor into multiple monitors
<waxjar>
i never actually worked on a big project, but i can't imagine using some bloated IDE :p
<ablankfield>
like you can select a part of your screen and make it so whatever you have open there just stays put
<ablankfield>
wait, nvm
<ablankfield>
I forgot I was using linux
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<ablankfield>
so what you guys are saying is that I should just keep learning about ruby and playing with it and eventually I'll have a better understanding of some of the fundamentals of programming?
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<swarley>
yeah
<waxjar>
that's p much how i did it
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<brainbox>
is a ruby a language people start with learning programming?
<brainbox>
i'd never have thought
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<waxjar>
if you're on reddit, r/ruby has interesting articles every once in a while.
<ablankfield>
do you guys have careers where you get paid to program?
<swarley>
I didnt start with ruby, but ruby is how i really learned how to program
<brainbox>
ablankafield: that said, i dont think it matters which language you chose for learning to program
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<brainbox>
it's all the same, basically, as far as programming principles goes
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<ablankfield>
I'm primarily choosing ruby because syntax hangs me up and I just wanna learn, not learn where the ;
<ablankfield>
's go\
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<brainbox>
ablankfield: yes... python and ruby are very elegant as they say
<ablankfield>
ruby's a hot date and I wanna take her to prom
<brainbox>
your files don't end with }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
<ablankfield>
if your
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<ablankfield>
if your's do then that's pretty scary
<brainbox>
try java
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<brainbox>
ablankfield: but seriously, basic programming principles and theory are very easy to grasp.... you don't need to write anything else than psedo-code actually. to learn
<ablankfield>
I learned a bit of java but then my twin convinced me to learn objective c which confused me and I decided to try javascript since I new html and css and then I got hung up on dom and other things
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<ablankfield>
pseudo code?
<waxjar>
depends a bit though, i'd be very hard to switch to something like Erlang or Lisp from Ruby, but to JavaScript or PHP would be quite smooth i think?
<brainbox>
you just need to know about variables, typing, scope, environment, operators, precedence, loops/conditional statements
<brainbox>
I think that's mostly all you need to have a basic understanding
<brainbox>
I forgot functions/methods and classes
<brainbox>
:D
<ablankfield>
scope... that's what hung me up
<brainbox>
oh, and objects... and instances.. sorry
<brainbox>
but that should be all for a basic understanding... I think
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<ablankfield>
I get variables and operators and conditional statements but methods classes scope and objects confuse me a bit
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<brainbox>
ablankfield: depending on language function and method are the same. think of a function or method as a verb. as something that is performed.
<brainbox>
ablankfield: getWater() would be a function, stealCar(), steerLeft(), getUsers(), etc.
<ablankfield>
so .reverse is a method because it performs an action
<brainbox>
ablankfield: yes
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<ablankfield>
are those functions you mentioned also methods?
<brainbox>
ablankfield: now you know what a function/method is.
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<ablankfield>
so those terms go hand in hand?
<brainbox>
ablankfield: yes, function and method are the same thing. just some language call it a function, and others call it a method.
<ablankfield>
and scope is like hierarchy?
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<waxjar>
functions and methods are not strictly the same, especially not in ruby. In ruby you call a method *on* an object, but in php for example you can define functions like in mathematics
<ablankfield>
are functions in ruby those things that start with def
<brainbox>
yes
<ablankfield>
but then you can call them as a method
<waxjar>
ruby doesn't have functions, it only has methods. but yes, they start with def :)
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<brainbox>
well, what is called a function in say javascript, is called a method in ruby
<brainbox>
in javascript you declare with keyword function, in ruby, with keyword def
<ablankfield>
ohhhhh
<ablankfield>
yeah, see ruby makes way more sense to me
<waxjar>
they're similar, but don't start thinking of them as the same thing. it'll make things a lot easier :)
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<brainbox>
ablankfield : definitely learn programming in whatever language you understand it best.
<ablankfield>
so what is scope? and is that something that is involved in every language?
<brainbox>
ablankfield: but once you've learned it in ruby, you can pick up any other language in a day
<brainbox>
ablankfield : yes, scope is important in all languages
<waxjar>
i like to think of it as an onion :P
<brainbox>
ablankfield : but the rules of scope are different in every language
<ablankfield>
yeah, i noticed I get through variables and conditional statements then usually after that when it gets into methods and classes and scope... I get a huge brain fart and dont get what happened to the math and logic
<ablankfield>
so what is scope
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<brainbox>
ablankfield: i guess you can think of scope as access... rules of access.. or which variables can be seen by a certain function, or which function can see another function.
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<ablankfield>
I think that was where I got lost when I was learning javascript
<brainbox>
ablankfield: hmm, or even in terms of privacy or protection.
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<ablankfield>
I havent used ruby yet to make any .rb files or anything, i've just used ruby in irb. I'm hoping that if I learn about scope with ruby it might be easier to comprehend
<ablankfield>
is scope like control flow, or is that different
<brainbox>
ablankfield: say you create a function, it has a couple of variables, those variables might be local. they might be only seen by that function
<waxjar>
when defining a method for example, you might have some variables (variable = 'value'), those will only be accessible by that method
<brainbox>
ablankfield: so you could say those variables are limited to the scope of the function. they exist only within the function.
<ablankfield>
because they are in the bucket that is the method you are currently defining right?
<brainbox>
ablankfield: where as on the other hand, you could have global functions, that can be seen by all functions
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<brainbox>
hehe yeah
<brainbox>
that is a very limited picture of what scope is
<brainbox>
but you get the basic idea
<ablankfield>
the big words lose me lol, I have to think in simpleton terms
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<brainbox>
because programming in general can be very abstract, it helps to visualize in terms of real objects
<ablankfield>
that also kind of confuses me a bit
<brainbox>
especially when you start dealing with more complex things
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<ablankfield>
because some objects have functions and other objects are just trinkets to look at
<waxjar>
the cliché is to think of it as persons or animals. x = Person.new; x.eat(Burrito.new); x.stomach_contents # => [<Burrito 1234>]
<ablankfield>
like a mouse for a computer does multiple things like move the cursor, has buttons that do things, and sometimes even a scroll button. but... huh. well as I'm looking around i'm starting to realize everything I look at has a purpose or function
<ablankfield>
so that was kinda eye opening I think
<lolzie>
I have a class with an array. It seems a natural course of action for this program will be to use wraparound-ing for index access of this array, e.g. array of length 4, array[4] returning array[0]
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<lolzie>
For this, should I create a class method, or simply override [] in Array?
<brainbox>
ablankfield: you might have heard that line 'everything is an object' about ruby... or other languages (python)
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<ablankfield>
brainbox yeah
<lolzie>
I feel the latter to be bad, but I think it might be because I haven't lost my dynamic method definition virginity in Ruby yet. But I think it would be cleaner.
<swarley>
lolzie; you should probably use an instance method
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<brainbox>
ablankfield: for you that just means that since everything is an object, you dont need to worry that much about what an object actually is
<swarley>
def [](*args); @array_in_my_object[*args]; end
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<swarley>
that will just pass the call to [] down to the array in your object
<brainbox>
ablankfield: but of a class, think of a class as a blueprint for an object.
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<ablankfield>
so if I'm a child playing in a sand box, I shouldn't worry about what sand is made of, I should be happy that I can play with it and turn it into whatever I can imagine?
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<brainbox>
ablankfield : you can have a class called 'car', an instance of this class, could be a 'bmw'
<swarley>
how many object oriented programmers does it take to change a light bulb?
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<ablankfield>
lol
<swarley>
none. They tell it to change itself
<swarley>
lightbulb.change
<ablankfield>
is that like when you do the "def bmw < car" thing?
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<waxjar>
that's inheritance, i think what brainbox means is that you can do bmw = Car.new for example
<lolzie>
swarley: does that essentially define obj[]
<lolzie>
swarley: this would only be used internally
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<brainbox>
ablankfield : ablankfield : how about... bmw = new Car();
<lolzie>
swarley: umm, I'll have a little mess about, no need to spoon feed :)
<brainbox>
ablankfield : now you have created object 'bmw', from class Car, or blueprint Car
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<brainbox>
ablankfield : or rather an instance of.
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<ablankfield>
I think I get it?
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<ablankfield>
and from there you add some attr_accessors?
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<ablankfield>
as far as I know i haven't really gotten to a point where I do anything with the objects
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<lolzie>
Is there a way of modifying Array's []= but not for the whole program, just for from within that class?
<swarley>
uh
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<ablankfield>
I do feel like I'm starting to understand some of this stuff
<swarley>
you could do NewArray = Array.dup i suppose
<swarley>
and then modify NewArray
<brainbox>
ablankfield: well, since everything is an object that means you're always doing something either with or to objects
<heftig>
er, class NewArray < Array
<heftig>
what's this with dup?
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<swarley>
I dont know, i'm tired
<swarley>
And this question seems weird
<heftig>
too much javascript? :p
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<brainbox>
ablankfield: just like syntax can... hinder understanding, so can terminology, so don't focus that much on it.... right now
<brainbox>
ablankfield: it'll stick after a while
<waxjar>
ablankfield, have you read anything on Ruby yet?
<swarley>
honestly, you probably dont want to change Array#[]
<swarley>
that's almost never what you want
<swarley>
you probably want to change MyObject#[]
<ablankfield>
I've watched all of thenewboston's tutorials on youtube and went through some of the ruby section on codeacademy and worked through try ruby on code school
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<swarley>
i would read Beginning Ruby by Peter Cooper, or something along those lines
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<ablankfield>
I'm mostly here asking questions because my mom never went to college, my twin is a physics/math major, and my dad is a business major and no one I know programs lol
<ablankfield>
lemme check my iphone, I'm pretty sure i have it on there
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<swarley>
I think Beginning Ruby is better for people new to programming completely, why is a little better for those who can afford to be distracted by chunky bacon
<ablankfield>
waxjar I was looking for that
<ablankfield>
ealrier
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<ablankfield>
I'm pretty positive I have that beginning ruby book
<brainbox>
ablankfield: any particular reason you ended up with ruby as your first language?
<brainbox>
ablankfield: or wasnt it the first you tried
<ablankfield>
my phones being silly. I may have downloaded too many itunesU videos... looks like it deleted my ebooks
<ablankfield>
honestly I have no clue why I stumbled upon it
<ablankfield>
I think I was on codeacademy one day and happened to see it was a new course they were working on
<ablankfield>
I liked the syntax and it seemed easy to read and follow what was happening
<brainbox>
ablankfield: right... but what fields are you interested in
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<ablankfield>
well, I've been a musician for most of my life and I'm tired of moving gear from stage to stage and I decided instead of thinking about what I wanted to do career wise, to think about how I want to spend my time
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<ablankfield>
and the answer to that was making my own hours to a degree and not necessarily having to leave the house
<brainbox>
ablankfield: heh, so you just decided programming? of all other things you could try...
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<brainbox>
ablankfield: well since you're on irc you're probably bit of a techie or computer guy...
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<ablankfield>
well I already remodel kitchens bath rooms and houses. I've messed around with a bunch of linux OS's and learned pretty much anything that interested me since I was a kid. Now I just wanna get married, move south, buy a house and spend time sitting at home and have a dog
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<brainbox>
nice...
<brainbox>
sounds like a happy ending
<ablankfield>
I also wanna make money though, so I can't really be an artist or writer. So web development or app development seems like a good choice
<ablankfield>
I went through 4 years of college constantly switching majors and I think I've had around 30 jobs in my life. none of those things have happened from my house
<brainbox>
i dunno, i think a handful of rock stars have made way more money than all programmers combined
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<brainbox>
if you exclude perhaps a couple...
<ablankfield>
true, but to a certain extent the money isn't worth the being away from friends and constantly on the move
<brainbox>
plus now with spotify piratebay and all
<brainbox>
people are hardly respectful of artists work anymore
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<ablankfield>
I usually disagree with people that discourage piracy because of "economic value" of peoples art
<ablankfield>
If people were sharing music I wrote I'd be happy about it
<waxjar>
interesting..
<brainbox>
hm
<ablankfield>
musicians make very little money from records alone
<ablankfield>
the money is in being on stage and ticket sales
<brainbox>
well, i just think it extends to more than musicians, people just dont seem to value anything enough to pay for it anymore
<brainbox>
unless it's an apple product
<brainbox>
or a car
<mr-rich>
Any savon gem users here?
<ablankfield>
to an extent
<brainbox>
if you made an album, you've put in hundreds or thousands of hours
<brainbox>
and money
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<ablankfield>
you program right?
<brainbox>
recording studio, etc... or innstruments
<waxjar>
music is an art form, not a business model :)
<ablankfield>
how long does it take you to write a program?
<brainbox>
if someone enjoys the result of that product
<brainbox>
why wouldnt that be worth their money
<ablankfield>
I can write and record a 3 minute song that sounds like the strokes or shins in 2 hours
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<ablankfield>
most musicians don't put tons and tons of time in, and if they do then they're about as good of a musician as I am a programmer
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<brainbox>
ablankfield : i guess you're saying that time should be an important factor in whether your product is worth money or not?
<brainbox>
ablankfield: and that if youve only spent a couple of days writing and recording the songs for your album, people dont need to pay for it
<waxjar>
it's not really a product, unless we're talking mtv-style entertainment tunes
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<ablankfield>
no no no, I'm saying if you like something some one made, show them support
<brainbox>
anything packaged is a product
<ablankfield>
the package is a product, the digital information is just that
<brainbox>
ablankfield: but so many who, really do like an artist, never give anything back
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<waxjar>
that's not strictly true
<brainbox>
ofcourse no one should pay for shit they don't like
<brainbox>
but so many don't pay either way
<ablankfield>
they do when the artist they like comes to town
<ablankfield>
they see a great show, have a few drinks and then ask you to take their wallet lol
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<ablankfield>
and to be honest, that $40-50 ticket that you buy to go see a show pays more than the sale of the actuall cd package
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<brainbox>
ablankfield: thats true, but how many people come to a show, if you add up the shows for 1 year and all the tickets sold combined
<brainbox>
ablankfield: with your % of each cd sold and multiply that with the number of downloads in a year
<ablankfield>
its the same as how walmart works, you go in for toothpaste and walk out with a 16 gig flash drive and a bluetooth mouse and forget about the toothpaste lol
<ablankfield>
downloads
<ablankfield>
downloads don't cost a musician anything
<ablankfield>
its just a copy of a file that exists and is played on the radio or elsewhere
<waxjar>
more importantly, it costs labels next to nothing
<brainbox>
they don't cost you, but I'm saying that's the number of people who enjoy your music but don't pay for it, and you're not recouping that at shows
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<waxjar>
who do rake in most of the profits
<waxjar>
leaving the artists with a couple cents per download
<ablankfield>
are you agreeing with me waxjar?
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<waxjar>
mostly, yeah
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<ablankfield>
right
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<ablankfield>
you make more money from letting people download your music
<ablankfield>
for free
<ablankfield>
and heres the reason why among many
<waxjar>
ultimately yes. nobody's going to pay $10 upfront for some stuff they never heard before
<ablankfield>
say you being a smart guy download a full album from demonoid or pirate bay
<brainbox>
so what would be bigger number, 1) your percent of a cd sale times number of downloads or 2) your percentage of ticket sales
<brainbox>
that's all i'm wondering
<brainbox>
well, people have heard the music on radio, or through a friend perhaps
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<ablankfield>
now you go to your friend thats not tech savy and tell them about that album... they'll end up buying the cd and tell they're friends
<waxjar>
probably ticket sales brainbox, although labels started taking a cut of the touring profits as well in the last few years
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<ablankfield>
cuz they're smarter tech savvy friend says its good and hes smart and knows what hes talking about so its good music
<waxjar>
somewhat smaller bands used to get all of the profits from a tour
<brainbox>
yeah, word of mouth is powerful, and sure, all those downloads, it is a lot of "free" marketing
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<brainbox>
i guess you could see the potential loss of downloads as more like a marketing expense
<ablankfield>
another good example is the normal working world
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<ablankfield>
if you posted an ad on craigslist for a job position that pays minimum wage, 7.25 here, you would get tons of people asking for an interview
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<ablankfield>
however, you post a job position that pays 25 an hour and has a few qualifications, maybe even 1 -2 qualifications... you get way less results
<ablankfield>
people are lazy and competition is high where "nothing required" exists
<ablankfield>
everyone has a mouth
<ablankfield>
thats why american idol works
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<ablankfield>
or did
<ablankfield>
same as fiverr.com
<ablankfield>
people line up to do silly things for 5 bucks
<ablankfield>
the music biz is crowded
<brainbox>
i didnt quite catch what the job listing example would be analoguos to...
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<ablankfield>
its not like the 70's where you would see venue banners that say "living legend" no one's really a legend today
<waxjar>
the problem these labels have is that their "product" is no longer scarce, so they attempted all kinds of tricks to make it scarce (DRM), which obviously didn't quite work.
<ablankfield>
music is easy
<ablankfield>
or I should say, people think music is easy
<waxjar>
personally i think they should just move on, change their business model or w/e
<brainbox>
in most cases i think creating good music takes thousands of hours practice
<brainbox>
just like any other skill
<ablankfield>
this is true
<ablankfield>
I spent a ton of time playing around
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<ablankfield>
learning music programs
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<ablankfield>
now I can pound out a couple songs a day
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<whackatre>
:P
<ablankfield>
but so can my neighbor that wears tight jeans, and the kid with weird dark makeup on
<Skooljester>
Hnh?
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<ablankfield>
in a world where everyone is an artist, art ends up being a hobby for most
<brainbox>
music programs? like software? so you dont play instruments?
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<ablankfield>
lol, no I do
<ablankfield>
I play piano, guitar, violin, drums, sax
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<ablankfield>
if it makes sound I'll make music
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<ablankfield>
you gotta record it though
<ablankfield>
thats the time consuming part
<blithen>
evening everyone, just got a quick question, why isn't this working? system('grep #{date.rstrip} textpicks.txt')
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<waxjar>
use double quotes blithen
<waxjar>
single quotes don't do interpolation
<blithen>
o_o Are you serious?
<blithen>
well...crap
<waxjar>
yep :)
<blithen>
That was so simple I kind of want to die...
<ablankfield>
Thats how I feel when I'm trying to figure things out
* waxjar
walked into the same problem when starting out
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<brainbox>
ablankfield: do you have high school level algebra skills?
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<ablankfield>
I was playing with something last night and after 20 minutes realized I spelled the method wrong
<blithen>
xD Yep it works now...holy biscuits that's frustrating...
<ablankfield>
brainbox: I believe so
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<blithen>
ablankfield I had a script that was writing some information to a text file and I ended up messing around with it, turns out I was opening the wrong file in nano...
<waxjar>
ablankfield, do you have a link to your tunes?
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<brainbox>
ablankfield: on edx (google it) there's a course from mitx "introduction to computer science and programming" that's pretty good
<ablankfield>
LOL
<ablankfield>
I have 2 soundclouds I think
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<ablankfield>
thats just random stuff though
<brainbox>
ablankfield: it's free, it's a bit heavy on the math side but with high school level skills you should do fine
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<mtfk>
hi, it is possible to set body in Net::HTTPResponse by just response.body = "<h1>body</h1>" ?
<mtfk>
beause it sometimes it does not work and when I call response.body I've got nil
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<shevy>
hmm guys
<shevy>
is it possible to do either
<shevy>
foo # call method foo
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<shevy>
foo.some_method() # here, call a method on object foo, rather than the foo() method
<shevy>
both ways would have to work for my use case
<shevy>
my current opinion is that this is not possible. but is that true?
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<hoelzro>
shevy: I'm not sure what you mean
<hoelzro>
do either?
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<shevy>
well yeah I wanna be able to do this:
<shevy>
foo 'pass some', 'arguments here'
<shevy>
but also
<shevy>
foo.set_default_for_first_argument 'bla'
<shevy>
foo # here we call method foo() with this new default called 'bla'
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<clocKwize1>
shevy, isn't that like currying?
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<JonnieCache>
that is just currying isnt it?
<clocKwize1>
i guess :p
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<clocKwize1>
its not that easy in ruby
<clocKwize1>
as methods aren't first class
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<clocKwize1>
though you can do it roughly with #method
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<clocKwize1>
and call through that
<clocKwize1>
maybe
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<clocKwize1>
would be nice if we could pass methods around and call them from anywhere in ruby and return new methods.. so you could do x = default_first_param(&obj.method, "abc") x(123) would call obj.method("abc", 123)
<JonnieCache>
how about obj.curry(:method, "abc")
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<JonnieCache>
that would be easy
<clocKwize1>
yeah
<clocKwize1>
that would in effect modify a class instance in place
<clocKwize1>
which would mean any call to obj.method would be curried
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<JonnieCache>
i was thinking it would just return a proc
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<clocKwize1>
ok :)
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<clocKwize1>
then yeah, that would be nice :)
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<JonnieCache>
or it could just make a new method on obj
<clocKwize1>
kind of cool, would be nice if you could do it with methods and not procs though
<clocKwize1>
with normal syntax
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<clocKwize1>
awwwww
<clocKwize1>
scrum master just said something real nice to me
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<clocKwize1>
He was like thanks for all your work, this project is going so well and we've got all this stuff done and its mostly because of you, so thank you
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<JonnieCache>
ask for more money
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<clocKwize1>
JonnieCache, I did before I started the contract, If they want me for another project (which they've already hinted at) then I'll ask again, now they know I'm awesome.
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<clocKwize1>
omg, I just noticed your name is like Jonnie Cash, but its Jonnie Cache. Thats awesome.
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<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: ping
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<clocKwize>
banisterfiend: pong
<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: if you want to grab the binding of the caller method you could also consider using Proc#binding
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<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: def hello(&block); block.binding.eval("x"); end x = 10; hello { } #=> 10
<clocKwize>
ah, interesting :)
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<clocKwize>
that'd be one way, though having to specify a block for no use would be annoying
<clocKwize>
though it'd work
<clocKwize>
which is better than where we got yesterday :P
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<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: yeah, it's only natural if the method natively takes a block
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<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: binding.of_caller(1) isn't that bad, it's fairly robust these days
<clocKwize>
it even says on the docs not to use in production
<clocKwize>
:p that kind of scared me off
<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: i use it pry-stack_explorer and i dont get that many complains :)
<clocKwize>
and its VM specific
<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: you wanted to use it in an actual production application?
<clocKwize>
yeah
<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: well it works in MRI and rbx, i cant get it working in jruby yet though
<clocKwize>
yeah
<clocKwize>
I've never used anything other than MRI
<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: what information do you want from the caller binding anyway?
<clocKwize>
in production app anyway
<clocKwize>
to pull local varaibles
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<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: i've done a lot of programming with binding_of_caller, i can tell you it makes life hell
<clocKwize>
heh
<banisterfiend>
not because it's unstable, but because of the weird couplings it creates
<banisterfiend>
it makes it very hard to refactor things, cos when you use it, it's very easy to start relying on the caller method being X
<banisterfiend>
and you can't then refactor X to Y
<clocKwize>
it was just for syntactic sugar on what I already had, not core to fixing the problem
<banisterfiend>
without breaking your expectations and your code
<clocKwize>
basically instead of Formulae.new "x * y", x: x, y: y
<clocKwize>
I wanted: Formuae.new "x * y"
<clocKwize>
and it get those from the calling scope
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<clocKwize>
which I could do with Formulae.new { "x * y" }
<clocKwize>
the caller is telling the callee what the variables to look at are called, so it has no coupling
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<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: why not use this
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<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: Formulae.new ->(x, y) { x * y }
<clocKwize>
because that looks nasty
<banisterfiend>
i disagree
<banisterfiend>
i think it looks nice
<clocKwize>
and only works in 1.9
<banisterfiend>
evaluating strings like this "x * y" is nasty
<clocKwize>
you specify x and y twice
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<clocKwize>
banisterfiend, but the whole point is the Formulae class tracks the formulae used, so it can be later displayed (including formulae it used, e.g. if x was a formulae) in a list
<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: you're just evaluating the string right?
<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: but, if you're actually getting x and y from the caller binding (like you intend to), then you could just eval it, right?
<clocKwize>
yes but then I don't have the AST from which to build nice formatted HTML of the expression
<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: you could just run it through ruby_parser
<banisterfiend>
up2u though
<clocKwize>
if I pass x * y, i get the result, when I want to display <abbr title="x">144</abbr> <span>*</span> <abbr title="y">512</abbr> etc
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<clocKwize>
using ruby_parser would still mean using a string right
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<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: Yeah
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<clocKwize>
I know how math_engine works and I can extend it, and its build specifically for math, not for the whole ruby language
<banisterfiend>
cool
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<clocKwize>
I like your idea with the proc binding
<clocKwize>
will mean Formulae.new { "x * y" } works
<clocKwize>
which is nice
<clocKwize>
(as nice as possible)
<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: after a few more months/years of ruby programming, you will start to wince when you see magic like that ;)
<banisterfiend>
i used to do even crazier stuff than that, but now it kind of disturbs me
<JonnieCache>
it is fun though
<banisterfiend>
i dont find it pretty anymore, either
<JonnieCache>
metaprogramming is like recreational drugs you have to have self control
<banisterfiend>
hehe
<JonnieCache>
and listen to your friends when they tell you that youve gone too far :)
<clocKwize>
I do, but I'd rather a bit of encapsulated magic than the alternative, which for this is exposing lots of different values throughout my domain so the UI can display how it calculated a value, and then updating the html and the forumla when they change
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<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: do u have one Binding where they do all their math?
<banisterfiend>
clocKwize: it sounds like you're doing a kind of 'live document' system?
<banisterfiend>
in which case u can just store that binding in a global or thread local
<clocKwize>
no, I'm building something to pass this
<clocKwize>
basically given M(a, b) -> B = curry(M, 7) -> B(x) == M(7, x)
<shevy>
I am gonna call my next programming language "John"
<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
I could need that for what I want in ruby
<shevy>
def foo
<shevy>
end
<shevy>
foo 'call the method'
<shevy>
foo.call_a_method_on_an_object
<shevy>
or...
<shevy>
foo.set_default_argument 'bla bla bla'
<shevy>
foo.call_a_method_on_an_object # call default argument like so
<shevy>
using (:method) is unfortunately ugly :(
<clocKwize>
yeah, I saw your message earlier - thats the idea behind currying, except you express it differently
<shevy>
hmm
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<clocKwize>
you can't pass methods around in ruby (very easily) so its not an ideal place to do it
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<shevy>
:(
<clocKwize>
you can pass around a proc that calls a method on a class with a default argument
<clocKwize>
then stuff can call that
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<shevy>
hmmmm
<shevy>
it's a little bit over my head right now
<clocKwize>
its not something I've really used in ruby
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<shevy>
my brain only works when things are so simple that even a 2 years old can understand it
<clocKwize>
or in any language really. I just know it exists. One day I'll realise I need it :)
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<rumba>
hi. the page at http://savonrb.com/ says to use this syntax: "response = client.request :wsdl, "GetPDF", id: 1" to perform a soap request to get the element with id=1, but ruby complains about the syntax saying "syntax error, unexpected tSYMBEG, expecting kDO or '{' or '('"
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<rumba>
is there something i'm missing? is that kind of syntax correct?
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<clocKwize>
rumba, thats ruby 1.9 hash syntax
<clocKwize>
if you are using ruby 1.8
<clocKwize>
you should do: client.request :wsdl, "GetPDF", :id => 1
<clocKwize>
and then quickly update to ruby 1.9 if you know whats good for you
<rumba>
okay, fixed it, thanks!
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<workmad3>
aef: it's to do with how constant lookup works in ruby, which uses a lexical scope
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<workmad3>
aef: which basically translates to 'including a module doesn't mean you get to access constants like that'
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<aef>
workmad3: first of all. it worked in Ruby 1.9.2. Now it doesn't. Second: this works in 1.9.2 and 1.9.3: http://pastie.org/5108390
<aef>
workmad3: in my opinion, this is exactly how it should work in Ruby, and always did. There is just a regression in RSpec's magic in correllation to Ruby 1.9.3. And I need a way around it.
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<protolif>
ohai
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<protolif>
is anybody here good at making gems?
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<hoelzro>
elliot98: IO#each_line
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<elliot98>
how about foreach?
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<hoelzro>
I haven't tried it; ri seems to indicate that would work
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<dw>
hey, i'm trying to install a bundle that requires rbx-require-relative=0.5 via less-rails-bootstrap on ruby 1.9.3, but =0.5 requires ruby ~> 1.8.7. i tried installing =0.9 which supports newer ruby, but it's still copmlaining
<dw>
is there some way to ignore a dependency, or somesuch
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<Xeago>
dw: edit the gemfile
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<tos9>
Does bundler not install dependencies' dependencies? I put gem "cucumber" in my Gemfile but now I get complaints about missing capybara.
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<Xeago>
it does, did you run bundle install?
<tos9>
Yes.
<tos9>
It says "The Gemfile's dependencies are satisfied" with bundle check and bundle install exits successfully.
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<tos9>
FWIW full gemfile is http://bpaste.net/show/53238/ (where I added capybara to get it to shut up and now it does run successfully)
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<dw>
ok, seems it's not due to less-rails-bootstrap. can i print the dependency tree somehow?
<Xeago>
there's a graphing thingy with bundler
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<Xeago>
have no experience with it but there's documentation on bundler.org
<dw>
thanks
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<workmad3>
dw: capybara isn't a dependency of cucumber
<workmad3>
sorry, tos9
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<shevy>
BUNDLE!
<shevy>
BUNDLE THE WORLD!
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<tos9>
workmad3: I noticed that :P I was assuming that it was a dep of cucumber-sinatra instead
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<workmad3>
dw: add 'gem "rbx-require-relative", "0.9"' to your Gemfile and try to re-run 'bundle install'
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<workmad3>
dw: that should tell you the gem(s) that have locked to 0.5 ;)
<tos9>
(I have both, but obviously I couldn't run cucumber until I added cucumber too so I'm just noticing the failure)
<JonnieCache>
the graphviz thing in bundler is awesome
<workmad3>
tos9: it tends to be a good idea that if you're actively using a gem then you should add it to your Gemfile explicitly ;)
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<workmad3>
tos9: rather than relying on transitive dependencies
<tos9>
workmad3: I'm not, which is why I don't :)
<tos9>
i.e. I'm not using capybara
<workmad3>
tos9: hmm... ok then
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<dw>
workmad3: lol, nice hack
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<workmad3>
dw: it's not so much a hack as forcing an inconsistent dependency graph... ok, maybe it's a hack :)
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<workmad3>
tos9: could be that some pre-supplied steps are built around capybara
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<workmad3>
dw: once you've figured out which gem(s) are the issue, then do a 'bundle update <gem> <gem> ... rbx-require-relative'
<dw>
<3
<tos9>
workmad3: Yeah, I understand that I guess, I was coming more from what you said, that I don't want to see it if it isn't my direct dep.
<workmad3>
dw: which will unlock just the specified gems (and their dependencies) for updates
<workmad3>
tos9: well, if it's some pregenerated steps then it kind of *is* a direct dependency
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<workmad3>
tos9: and it's not a dependency of cucumber or cucumber-sinatra, because they both work absolutely fine without capybara, just that they can supply code that makes it easy to integrate with it :)
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<workmad3>
incidentally, I tend to avoid pregenerated steps... they tend to lead to scenarios that specify way too much implementation detail in my experience...
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<workmad3>
dw: you could also do the brute-force approach of adding rbx-require-relative to you Gemfile with version 0.9 and then doing 'bundle update' which will unlock all your gems and attempt to update them... but that could cause issues (but would reveal if something had a hard dependency on 0.5 and was unable to use 0.9 quicker)
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<dw>
ok, problem detected
<dw>
the directory i was working from was not for ruby 1.9.3. its a brnach in the midst of a huge rearrangement
<dw>
thanks all for the help :)
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<tos9>
Oh.
<tos9>
I guess looking at the traceback would have been nice.
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<tos9>
It looks like cucumber-sinatra generates a file that requires capybara but doesn't declare it in its deps.
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<workmad3>
tos9: which is right... you'll be able to use cucumber-sinatra without that code, it's just pregenerated code to make things easier
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<tos9>
workmad3: I see.
<workmad3>
tos9: and pregenerated code becomes yours, not the gems ;)
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* tos9
has not used cucumber-sinatra before
<tos9>
Well, mystery solved then at least. Thanks.
<workmad3>
I've not used it either... but cucumber and cucumber-rails provide various generators that probably do similar (capybara integration, they used to provide webrat integration too, etc)
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<workmad3>
and once you've generated the code, it's yours and it's up to you to make sure the dependencies are satisfied ;)
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<workmad3>
documentation on that point is probably a bit sparse though
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<tos9>
/nod
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<shevy>
thuna!
<shevy>
THUUUNA
<shevy>
Freedom for thuna!
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<clocKwize>
argh
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<clocKwize>
google auto complete: I typed light yellow... first 3 suggestions were: light yellow discharge, light yellow urine, light yellow hex
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<clocKwize>
I wanted number 3
<clocKwize>
:D
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<shevy>
hehehe
<shevy>
light yellow urine???
<shevy>
BOY WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO FIND!
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<shevy>
YOU SICK SICK MAN
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<mr-rich>
Any savon gem users here?
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<Servidorv>
hey guys
<Servidorv>
good morning
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<jcaudle>
good morning servidorv!
<Servidorv>
hey question: i have an array and inside there is other array, each one of the inside arrays has a page information, what will be the best way to create a method that will search inside the main array and find the inner array containing the pageid and then returning just that one array
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<shevy>
.select
<hoelzro>
I would do .find, I think
<hoelzro>
.select returns an array
<hoelzro>
if you only want a single element, you would have to unbox .select's return value
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<jcaudle>
hoelzro, I think servidorv was looking for an array to be returned
<jcaudle>
The dependency API has been turned off due to load issues
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<jcaudle>
There's a pretty good community of developers working on getting it up again, but for now, bundler is capable of resolving dependencies on its own.
<jcaudle>
The dependency API just makes that happen faster.
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<crocket>
PG::Error: ERROR: current transaction is aborted, commands ignored until end of transaction block
<crocket>
: ALTER TABLE "git_caches" RENAME COLUMN "proj_identifier" TO "repo_identifier"
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<metrix>
What is the proper way to use bundler in the following situation: I have a group of 5 ruby applications and library living under one build script and in version control. I want to deploy these applications to a QA server and finally a Production server with the gems that I have defined in a bundle package.
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<metrix>
on my dev I should run bundle install and commit gem files... on QA and production I should run bundle package?
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<JonnieCache>
metrix: on prod. you should run bundle install --deployment --without development test
<metrix>
ok, and what about QA? bundle install --deployment?
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<JonnieCache>
yeah if you want
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<JonnieCache>
its pretty configurable
<Agis__>
do you people prefer iTerm 2 over the standard os x terminal?
<JonnieCache>
yeah
<hoelzro>
I do
<Xeago>
never tried, got no urge to move away from terminal.app
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<Xeago>
hoelzro, JonnieCache would you try convincing me?
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<hoelzro>
I switched a *long* time ago
<workmad3>
metrix: you could run 'bundle package' to create a release too, if you wanted, and then that release gets passed around to QA, staging, production, etc. and archived somewhere
<hoelzro>
one reason is 256 color support
<hoelzro>
which they may or may not have added to Terminal.app
<Agis__>
i just tried it, but my vim looks strange in iTerm2.. no line numbers are visible and colors are a little different
<Xeago>
256 got added in snow leopard
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<workmad3>
metrix: it'll depend on your deployment workflow and how much you want 'exactly the same' code to be tested, deployed, etc.
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<hoelzro>
Agis__: your TERM may not be set correctly
<workmad3>
Agis__: or your terminal colours may be set differently
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<Xeago>
it should be xterm-256color
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<metrix>
workmad3: Interesting.. I would prefer things to be as close to the same throughout the development cycle
<workmad3>
Agis__: vim in Terminal.app and vim in iTerm2 look massively different on my machine, despite them both using nominally the same theme, because I've set up my terminal colours differently :)
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<workmad3>
metrix: well, if you trust rubygems, then simply running 'bundle --deployment' with the same Gemfile.lock should get you the same code
<Agis__>
there are color schemes for iTerm too I suppose?
<Xeago>
1 thin I dislike about osx's terminal is that it clips sizes by character
<workmad3>
metrix: but if you read something like Continuous Deployment, they recommend a deployment pipeline that never relies on external library repositories after the 'release bundle' (or whatever you want to call it) has been constructed
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<workmad3>
metrix: they tend to talk more about java and compiled language pipelines, so they talk about ensuring the same jar or war is always passed around, to ensure that compiler differences don't affect you
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<metrix>
workmad3: Something I haven't quite picked up: When I add bundler to my code, does that mean it looks at the gemfile in the current directory and ONLY uses the given gems? or will my application always use the latest gem found?
<Xeago>
given gems
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<elliot98>
why does "1234 5678"[/([0-9]{3,4}).*([0-9]{3,4})/,1] produce "1234", but "1234 5678"[/([0-9]{3,4}).*([0-9]{3,4})/,2] produces "678"?
<workmad3>
metrix: by the same token, if you wanted to isolate your code from as many changes as possible, you could even consider distributing something like a statically linked ruby runtime as part of your release
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<elliot98>
should it not produce "5678"?
<workmad3>
metrix: yeah, bundler acts as a sandbox, something running within bundler will only see the gems and gem versions specified in your Gemfile.lock
<workmad3>
elliot98: the .* is greedy
<elliot98>
ah...how do you ungreedy it?
<workmad3>
elliot98: I think .*?
<workmad3>
elliot98: but I can't remember exactly :)
<metrix>
workmad3: Thank you! I appreciate your help
<workmad3>
elliot98: you could also specify that you want to match 0 or more whitespace characters, rather than any character
<elliot98>
thanks!
<workmad3>
metrix: I'd recommend you read 'Continuous Delivery' btw... it goes into a lot of detail about this sort of thing :)
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<elliot98>
workmad3: true, but sometimes that are more than just whitespaces between the numbers
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<workmad3>
elliot98: fair enough :)
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<Agis__>
don't you guys find it a little uncomfortable to hit Esc (vim) in Apple's wireless keyboard?
<Agis__>
it's just too small
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<JonnieCache>
fuck you apple and your antisocial dhcp client implementation
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<workmad3>
Agis__: I don't use apple's wireless keyboard
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<Xeago>
all function keys and (inherently escape) are too small on wireless-keyboard/mbair11" models
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<JonnieCache>
one of my bosses uses that its *tiny*
<JonnieCache>
the normal apple keyboards are bad enough
<Xeago>
I quite like the wired keyboard
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<JonnieCache>
my typo rate is massive on it
<JonnieCache>
i need a new one
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<JonnieCache>
although im kinda used to it now
<Xeago>
the keys are relatively small compared to other mechanical kb
<Xeago>
and I quite like that
<Xeago>
less movement needed to reach keys
<JonnieCache>
not so good if you hit the wrong one though
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<JonnieCache>
i dont like the lack of travel
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<Xeago>
I sometimes am in an odd position, like besides the laptop
<Xeago>
needing to type with 1 hand, sideways
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<Xeago>
it's quite doable because of the size
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<Drewch>
Is Array.second not a method anymore in latest versions of 1.9.3?
<Xeago>
I hope the fusion drive stuff that apple made, allows for some manual interaction aswell
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<Drewch>
I thought this used to be valid: [5,3,6].second
<atmosx>
hello
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<clocKwize>
Drewch, I think it might have been
<clocKwize>
for some reason
<Drewch>
lol yeah I definitely remember using it
<Drewch>
was just curious when it stopped being a function of Array
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<Xeago>
it's not in 1.8.7 core
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<clocKwize>
it might be part of rails
<clocKwize>
or was at some point
<Xeago>
active-support prolly
<clocKwize>
yeah
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<clocKwize>
seems a silly thing to have and i can understand why it would have been removed
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<adac>
shevy, kk
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<shevy>
adac are you on github or rubygems?
<adac>
shevy, I'm in Innsbruck btw
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<shevy>
ah cool, like manveru on #ruby-lang (though he went to japan, then back to munich, but I think he travels between germany and tirol all the time)
<atmosx>
is there any function to optimize a string match?
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<shevy>
optimize?
<Xeago>
only if you know your problem domain very well, and can thus strip out non related match stuff
<fgro>
any screen/tmux users out there that do pair programming? what is your ssh/server setup, do you have a dedicated dev server that you connect to? wondering because because of wifi/routing/ports issues..
<shevy>
such a question is ripe for Spooner or workmad3 :)
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<Xeago>
fgro: I use 1 time keys with ssh forcecommand of screen and then screen that asks for permission on the host
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<Xeago>
no dev server
<Dreamer3>
is it possible to get the output of ruby -v inside ruby?
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<dekroning>
i'm wondering when doing 'puts "foo"' inside a pry session that was invoked via binding.pry seem to be hanging
<Xeago>
1 time keys get passed in paper planes, im, irc, or other stuff
<apeiros_>
Xeago: RUBY_DESCRIPTION
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<apeiros_>
errr, Dreamer3, not Xeago, sry
<shevy>
Dreamer3 -> result = `ruby -v`
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<shevy>
wheee!!! apeiros_ is back again!!!!
<fgro>
Xeago: yes, who connects to who remotly? your pair connects to your machine? how do you do when you "travel" and ssh ports are not forwared to your machine?
<apeiros_>
shevy: I'm just his shadow
<shevy>
apeiros_ what is up with you, why are you barely here anymore :(
<zastern>
At some point I installed puppet on my mac via the official Puppet Labs packages. Is there some way to uh . . . uninstall it?
<Xeago>
the ones I've done it over firewall are smart enough to open and forward their ports
<fgro>
Xeago: ok
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<JonnieCache>
apeiros_: yeah, where do you get off, having a life
<JonnieCache>
:P
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<fgro>
Xeago: i'm quite sure this wouldn't work in some random public wifi... the port would have to be forwarded to the machine with the ssh server
<Xeago>
not in public wifi no ;p
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<fgro>
hence my thinking to use a dedicated dev server, that both parties can ssh connect to.
<Xeago>
unless both hosts are on the same wifi and hosts on the same network can see eachother
<fgro>
Xeago: well of course. ;-)
<atmosx>
shevy: I use @list_name.include?(word) to match two lists. Thing is these are kinda big lists and they are about to get way bigger soon.
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<Xeago>
I've snooped quite a few credentials over public wifi the last few years
<Xeago>
got quite some fun stuff ;3
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<fgro>
Xeago: "traveling"...
<Xeago>
hmm
<Xeago>
there are several reverse connection providers out there
<Xeago>
might be cheaper than a server
<zastern>
whoops did not mean to ask that here
<zastern>
sorry haha
<Xeago>
btw, I'd _always_ work with a reverse proxy on a public host
<shevy>
adac haha odd, I also get that 500 error :)
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<Xeago>
and then from that host connect to your local dev box
<shevy>
Xeago you scare me
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<Xeago>
it helps a lot having your own environment available
<Xeago>
shevy: howcome?
<shevy>
if I ever randomly meet you in reallife, I am gonna have to be armed to the teeth
<Xeago>
no :)
<Xeago>
I am a nice guy :D
<Xeago>
I help people I snoop
<shevy>
lol
<Xeago>
got some thankful donations/gifts from it aswell
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<adac>
shevy, you know what, when i'm in vienna we can just meet in person and have a coffee beer. screw github =)
<JonnieCache>
coffee beer? thats anew one on me
* Xeago
is in stockholm eager for some drinkup!
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<shevy>
adac \o/
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<shevy>
stockholm? hmm
<apeiros_>
drinkup, sounds like an idea…
<shevy>
I was in Göteborg once ... that was the foggiest day in my life
* apeiros_
ponders to get something to drink up
<shevy>
up in northern europe I think folks always must have awful weather
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<Xeago>
was a lovely day today
<Xeago>
had a lovely walk around noon to get lunch
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<hweiqiu>
hi all,who knows how to sort this hash by the last number? {"192.168.203.28"=>{"ESTABLISHED"=>{"tcp"=>59}}, "192.168.204.119"=>{"ESTABLISHED"=>{"tcp"=>13}}, "192.168.203.10"=>{"ESTABLISHED"=>{"tcp"=>6}}, "192.168.204.73"=>{"ESTABLISHED"=>{"tcp"=>10}}
<Xeago>
several methods
<Xeago>
construct ip object
<Xeago>
s
<Xeago>
strip the first 3 octets
<apeiros_>
hweiqiu: sort_by
<apeiros_>
beware, it returns an array
<Xeago>
tbh, you could just sort by the string representation of the key
<shevy>
hweiqiu are you from china
<apeiros_>
(which you can turn back to a hash using Hash::[])
<hweiqiu>
shevy>yes
<shevy>
\o/
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<shevy>
see apeiros_ knows all those things by heart :)
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<hweiqiu>
the final result will be { {"192.168.203.28"=>{"ESTABLISHED"=>{"tcp"=>59}},"192.168.204.119"=>{"ESTABLISHED"=>{"tcp"=>13}}, "192.168.204.73"=>{"ESTABLISHED"=>{"tcp"=>10},"192.168.203.10"=>{"ESTABLISHED"=>{"tcp"=>6}}}
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<apeiros_>
there's only blood in the heart
<atmosx>
shevy: I'm matching a wordlist.txt (11000+ words) against a dictionary (407000+ words), using wordlist.each {|word| nwords << word unless dictionary.include?(word)} ... So I get a list (nwords) who has all the words not matching the dictionary. But since the iterations take 7 minutes in an i5 4 GB ram, I was wondering if there's any faster way of doing this.
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<Xeago>
atmosx: yes
<Xeago>
first of all you want to do that in c
<atmosx>
fingerpringint (sha1) might be a good one, but the time needed to turn the wordlist to sha1 + the time to match, takes too much.
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<apeiros_>
atmosx: you should take a look at Array's set methods, like &, | etc.
<hweiqiu>
<shevy>yes
<atmosx>
Xeago: I dont.
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<Xeago>
second, you should use direct memory mapped arrays for fastest performance
<shevy>
atmosx that's really a lot
<apeiros_>
atmosx: what you do is an O(n^2) solution, really slow and bad
<atmosx>
apeiros_: hm set methods? I've seen a stackoverflow post about & but didn't pay much attention, I'll take a closer look thanks
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<Xeago>
you should also sort them first
<apeiros_>
x = ary1-ary2 # all values in ary1 but not in ary2
<apeiros_>
also a set operation
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<atmosx>
apeiros_: I figure it out. I do even worse because I capitalize the words from the nword list and try again, then I downcase the words and try again... so it's like 3 full iterations.
<Xeago>
which will give you nlogn complexity
<apeiros_>
Xeago: no, you should not sort them first. that's pointless.
<apeiros_>
also more expensive than a Set#-
<atmosx>
Xeago: sort them?
<atmosx>
Xeago: that's easy.
<atmosx>
apeiros_: ah
<atmosx>
hm
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<Xeago>
if both arrays are sorted the final result is g(n)
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<atmosx>
argh GSL gem breaks on macosx
<hweiqiu>
<apeiros_>how?
<apeiros_>
Xeago: sorting *alone* already takes more time
<apeiros_>
since sorting is nlogn, set#- is only n
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<apeiros_>
really, it's not just pointless but even wasteful.
<atmosx>
apeiros_: okay so I'm looking for Array#set?
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<apeiros_>
atmosx: no, you look for Array#- in your specific case
<apeiros_>
17:24 apeiros_: x = ary1-ary2 # all values in ary1 but not in ary2
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<Xeago>
once the wordlist is sorted, it doesn't have to be sorted again apeiros_, could you please elaborate why Array-Array is more efficient?
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<apeiros_>
Xeago: but to sort the wordlist you have to sort it :-p
<apeiros_>
Array#- does not need sorting.
<apeiros_>
it can work in a single iteration
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<Xeago>
it does that in a single iteration yes, but it also does a full st_lookup for each item in ary2
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<k610>
is there something like ruby-gmail that doens't require me to setup smpp & co to send mails ?
<apeiros_>
Xeago: st_lookup? I don't know the C implementation by heart. but it does a hash key lookup, which is O(1)
<atmosx>
I'm on mountain lion (osx) and rvm ruby
<apeiros_>
and it does that N times, N times O(1) is O(n)
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<apeiros_>
you may want to read up on algorithmic complexity of set operations.
<apeiros_>
it's well enough documented.
<Xeago>
okay, I claim to do it even faster
<Xeago>
using only presorted dictionary ;p
<Xeago>
my previous claim was borked
<apeiros_>
hweiqiu: re: "how?" - what part do you need help with? sort_by will yield you key and value (e.g. "192.168.203.28" and {"ESTABLISHED"=>{"tcp"=>59}})
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<apeiros_>
Xeago: go ahead, implement your code and feel devestated by a simple Array#- beating your code :-p
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<Xeago>
apeiros_: by having a presorted wordlist in memory, one can map the word directly to a memory address and simply check for null there
<Xeago>
having the wordlist sorted beforehand just makes the code easier to map directly to memory
<apeiros_>
Xeago: you're reinventing a hash table? great.
<Xeago>
but it's faster than what Array#- does, as that does not have to convert ary2 to hash
<apeiros_>
"it's faster" is an (yet) unsubstantiated claim.
<apeiros_>
and I doubt it
<apeiros_>
but as said, go ahead, build it.
<Xeago>
I substantiated it earlier
<apeiros_>
you only reasoned about it. and I say you're wrong :-p
<Xeago>
you didn't reason me wrong
<Xeago>
you reasoned me similar to the implementation that already exists in Array#-
<apeiros_>
I don't need to. you can simply test it.
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<apeiros_>
there is an algorithm which is faster than using a hash table which relies on sorting. but you haven't proposed it yet. also it's a silly amount of work for a problem which can be solved with as little as `a-b`
<apeiros_>
and again, it is only faster with pre-sorted stuff, once you have to consider sort as part of the operation, it'll in all likeliness be slower
<apeiros_>
17:30 apeiros_: hweiqiu: re: "how?" - what part do you need help with? sort_by will yield you key and value (e.g. "192.168.203.28" and {"ESTABLISHED"=>{"tcp"=>59}})
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<Xeago>
apeiros_: I fail to see how a binary search would be faster?
<apeiros_>
a binary search wouldn't.
<Xeago>
then what would be?
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<darthdeus>
what do I need to make bundler require all gems in my rakefile? require "bundler/setup" doesn't seem to wrok
<apeiros_>
parallel iteration
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<apeiros_>
darthdeus: require: 'foo' for each gem (replace 'foo' with the matching thing for each gem, of course)
<apeiros_>
darthdeus: also I guess you meant Gemfile, not rakefile :-p
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<darthdeus>
apeiros_: no i meant Rakefile in my gem ... I have specified dependencies in .gemspec, and now I want to do something like task(:console) { Pry.start }
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<darthdeus>
the thing is that none of the gems are loaded in the rakefile
<apeiros_>
darthdeus: bundler doesn't care for your gemspec (except when installing, of course)
<darthdeus>
my Gemfile has `gemspec` in it
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<Xeago>
that is a technique, not an algorithm
<apeiros_>
Xeago: you may want to check the meaning of "algorithm" again.
<Xeago>
let me rephrase, parallel iteration could be applied to all solutions proposed here
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<apeiros_>
Xeago: um, no
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<Xeago>
then which did I miss :O?
<apeiros_>
you need it presorted, otherwise it won't help
<shevy>
wheee a bundler question
<darthdeus>
apeiros_: and even if i add the gems directly in the gemfile it doesn't make any difference
<Xeago>
darthdeus: using bundler does not mean you do not need to require gems manually..
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<apeiros_>
you iterate over both lists at the same time, starting out with the first value. if a > b, then you continue iterating with b, if b > a, you continue iterating with a
<darthdeus>
Xeago: I've tried require "bundler/setup" and Bundler.require(:default), neither of which owkrs
<darthdeus>
works*
<rismoney>
on windows when i run exec 'powershell.exe -executionpolicy unrestricted -command get-module -listavailable' i get a different result than when i run that command from cmd.exe. why would that be?
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<hweiqiu>
<apeiros_> i mean how to use sort_by
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<apeiros_>
but yes, I didn't fully specify the algorithm. there are various ways you can continue the iteration. you can either do it linearly, use quadratic probing or even binary search. knowing your problem domain can tell you which one will yield the highest performance
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<hweiqiu>
apeiros_ i have never used it
<apeiros_>
hweiqiu: yes, that's a very unspecific question. See Enumerable#sort_by for its documentation. if you can tell me where you need more help, I'll do. But I ain't the manual.
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<Agis__>
guys, what's the difference in rvm between ruby head and ruby 1.9.3-p0?
<Agis__>
head is the latest?
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<apeiros_>
head is not released
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<Agis__>
oh
<apeiros_>
1.9.3-p0 is relatively old and released
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<Xeago>
should use p286 tho Agis__
<apeiros_>
1.9.3-p286 is the newest released ruby version
<apeiros_>
and I concur with Xeago, you should use that one
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<Agis__>
but it's not listed in rvm when I do a list rubies --known
<apeiros_>
because your rvm is old
* Xeago
knows crap about rvm, sorry
<apeiros_>
updated your rvm
<Agis__>
I see.. thx
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<Agis__>
so Xeago is an alternative? like rbenv?
<Agis__>
lol
<Agis__>
forget that
<Agis__>
never said that....
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<Agis__>
roflcopterz
* Xeago
likes and uses rbfu and rbenv
<apeiros_>
and I think it's "rvm list known" in newer rvms
<ddd>
yes. rvm list known to see known ruby versions to install
<Agis__>
yes upgraded my rvm and now installing -286.. thx
<apeiros_>
yw
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<darthdeus>
what's a good salary for a moderately senior ruby developer in sweden? :p
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<Xeago>
in eur?
<Xeago>
2.8-3.2
<Xeago>
around 25-30 in SEK
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<darthdeus>
that's for an employee pre-tax i suspect?
<Xeago>
pre-tax yea
<matti>
Xeago:
<ccooke>
Xeago: 2.8-3.2 what per what?
<darthdeus>
so if i was to be a freelancer, i could charge more?
<darthdeus>
i'm applying for a senior position, but it's my first job in sweden, so i literally have no idea what to ask
<apeiros_>
k, as a junior I can see that
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<Xeago>
darthdeus: there are strict regulations regarding the minimum pay, not judged by age alone but also by degree and certificates
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<apeiros_>
darthdeus: I don't know about sweden, but for switzerland, there's a good amount of publicly available statistical data on such things, I'd google whether there's some for sweden too. I wouldn't be surprised if there was.
<Xeago>
it is a very rough estimate
<darthdeus>
Xeago: i don't have any of those :p
<Xeago>
sorry I missed notable experience ;p
<matti>
;-)
<darthdeus>
i'm applying for a job in sweden but i live in czech republic and i'm considering moving there, so ... :X
<Xeago>
do you got your work-permit?
<atmosx>
I'm trying to install gsl-rb manually. Apparently the 'ruby setup.rb install' script chooses the correct paths but I can't see or load the gsl gem... any ideas?
<darthdeus>
Xeago: not yet
<Xeago>
you have to decide what to do
<Xeago>
move first, or move because of a (new) job
<Xeago>
most of the time, it is easier to do the latter
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<darthdeus>
i'll be moving because of the job, but i still haven't decided if i want to be an employee, or if i should try to work for them as a freelancer
<atmosx>
I like Czech Republic. Czech people are a bit unfriendly generally speaking but apart from that it's awesome. I've heard Sweden is better though (from a Swedish girl)
<darthdeus>
cuz as a freelancer i would get only 15% tax rate
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<darthdeus>
atmosx: average salary in Czech Republic is like 2-5 times less than everywhere else
<Xeago>
if you plan to become a resident, get employed
<Xeago>
it is a lot easier for the authorities
<atmosx>
darthdeus: not "everywhere else" but I get your point.
<Xeago>
if you work as a free lancer you might just loose your permit after the expiration
<Xeago>
there's plenty of good females outhere atmosx :)
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<matti>
Sweden?
<Xeago>
always a pleasure to look at when in the subways on lousy drousy mornings
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<darthdeus>
at my last interview i said i want 4.6k euro, and he kinda laughed and said he'll think about it ... and now he's asking me how much do i want, before the final interview :X so i'm not really sure what's going on :D
<apeiros_>
from the Enumerable#sort_by docs - how to e.g. sort an array by length of word
<clocKwize>
yes
<JonnieCache>
hahaha
<JonnieCache>
he could be a drug dealer!
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<atmosx>
clocKwize: well, if you vote for Romney, I guess so.
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<clocKwize>
atmosx, I don't live in America
<atmosx>
girlfriend called via facetime
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<atmosx>
bb
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<atmosx>
clocKwize: me neither
<atmosx>
but still...
<atmosx>
bb
<JonnieCache>
has romney promised to destroy tor
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<matti>
Romey
<matti>
?
<JonnieCache>
thats gonna be funny when he gets in andthe cia tell him to go fuck himself
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<Xeago>
you can't kill tor..
<apeiros_>
damit, why there's no streetview in the sahara?
<JonnieCache>
my point was, the cia use it all the time. they wont let anyone kill it
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<JonnieCache>
like bitcoin
<JonnieCache>
i bet the security services fucking love it
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<Xeago>
thinkso
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<Xeago>
untainted money
<Xeago>
that doesn't get tracked
<JonnieCache>
now they dont have to mess about with all sorts of gold bars and diamonds and stuff to pay bribes and so on
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<JonnieCache>
or however they do it
<clocKwize>
I think they probably have access to untraceable US currency..
<clocKwize>
being the CI mother fuckin A
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<Xeago>
clocKwize: it'd still be limited quantities
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<Xeago>
once they get a hold of a bitcoin, it is on an untracked budget
<JonnieCache>
yeah but what if the informant is some random guy in a hostile country who cant have us currency anywhere near them, let alone large amounts
<clocKwize>
What if they want to track the currency they pay
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<JonnieCache>
if i was in the pay of the cia working against my govt. i certainly wouldnt want suitcases full of dollars
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<clocKwize>
or whatever
<clocKwize>
I'm sure the CIA can get hold of any currency
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<JonnieCache>
you are right though the cia can basically do what they want. it more applies to other less countries
<JonnieCache>
s/less/lesser
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<clocKwize>
anyway, I must go - I'm meeting some old colleagues to have a drink or 2(3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8..)
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<JonnieCache>
rand(2..Math::INFINITY)
<Xeago>
anyone going to dreamhack btw?
* Xeago
wants to split costs
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<JonnieCache>
whats dreamhack?
<Xeago>
erhm, worlds biggest lan?
<clocKwize>
wow
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<clocKwize>
I want in
<clocKwize>
how much does that shit cost
<Xeago>
dreamhack.se
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<JonnieCache>
a lanparty?
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<clocKwize>
I'm on it
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<JonnieCache>
fuck that save your money and come to 29c3
<Xeago>
I go for the community, programming lounge, providing hosting support, and sc2 compo's
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<JonnieCache>
or you could come to the chaos computer club's annual convention
<clocKwize>
wow, thats like 51 GBP
<clocKwize>
for the whole event
<JonnieCache>
the whole place is one big programming lounge
<Xeago>
pretty cheap
<clocKwize>
and 40 GBP for a flight
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<clocKwize>
anyway, must dash.
<clocKwize>
laters
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<rcassidy>
is there support for PF_PACKET anywhere in ruby for raw socket work?
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<rcassidy>
poking around in Socket to no luck
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<amoe_>
when compiling ruby 1.8, is there any way to disable the building of a certain extension?
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<shevy>
amoe_ I think only by removing the directory there
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<shevy>
otherwise, make probably recursively tries to enter it
<shevy>
perhaps it works if you move it away temporarily
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<amoe_>
shevy: thanks, that works :)
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<shevy>
really??
<shevy>
cool
<shevy>
I usually work the other way
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<shevy>
some extension does not work
<shevy>
so I go into ext/NAME_OF_EXTENSION
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<shevy>
and run make or extconf.rb there
<shevy>
and try to fix what's missing
<shevy>
usually missing .h files
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<RubyPanther>
or rename the Makefile
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<RubyPanther>
(presumably, I don't actually do that)
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<orion>
Hi. I installed a bunch of gems in to vendor/bundle (including rails) and I want to start the rails server. I did `./vendor/bundle/ruby/1.9/bin/rails s' but that command failed, saying it couldn't find the gem in my ~/.gem folder. How do I tell it to look for gems in vendor/bundle?
<crocket>
jcaudle, And the fact that it's out delays bundler.
<jcaudle>
crocket: right. If you'd like to help out with fixing it you're more than welcome to, but right now it's down until a fix is found.
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<jcaudle>
crocket: rubygems.org has more information on the top bar about how to help out
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<jcaudle>
crocket: Bundler was designed to be able to handle dependencies, but the dependency API offloads it from your machine to the servers. It's just a speed thing.
<apeiros_>
greenail: make it a method (running?) and handle the logic there. your 3 solutions do different things btw., so can't really answer.
<greenail>
aperios_ where can I read about the impact of the 3 solutions?
<greenail>
i don't see it covered in the standard ruby threading stuff i've found
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<apeiros_>
greenail: hint, use tab completion for nicks in irc. makes you not typo them :-p
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<greenail>
i'm using ircii, i forget how to get tab completion working ;(
<apeiros_>
well, a local variable is shared across all threads (lexical scope is orthogonal to threading)
* greenail
shakes his fist at his old crippled command line irc client
<apeiros_>
while Thread#[] stores values thread-locally
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<greenail>
apeiros_ so you are saying thr[:running] only effects running in the thread scope?
<greenail>
so if i had 3 threads going all evaluating "running" only the thr1[:running] = false would only change thr1
<greenail>
assuming i name the 3 threads thr1,thre2...
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<apeiros_>
greenail: yes
<apeiros_>
ri Thread#[]
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<mib_mib>
does closure-compiler gem work on css ?
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<Uranio>
I was trying get the remote context lenght of something but all the methods look like must get the whole "something" before get the lenght
<greenail>
i know almost no c, but looking at the source I dont' see any way the thing is locking
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<mr-rich>
Hello. Any savon gem users here?
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<rking>
mr-rich: Me, actually. What's up?
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<mr-rich>
rking: oh thank god ...
<mr-rich>
I'm new to soap/wsdl and I need some pointers ...
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<mr-rich>
the wdsl I'm working with has some VERY complex types and I'm having trouble structuring a call ...
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<mr-rich>
rking: I guess what I'm looking for is a way to use savon to dump out the COMPLETE structure of the complex types.
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<mr-rich>
rking: I istalled soapui pro (14 day trial) and the Form tab tells me nothing ...
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<mr-rich>
s/istalled/installed/
<rking>
mr-rich: Wait, do you just mean you want to see some interpretation of the WSDL?
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<mr-rich>
rking: yes ... I suppose that's what I need. I can't find any tool that will dump out the COMPLETE structure of a complex type ... I am a geek, but soap/wsdl is new to me ...
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<rking>
mr-rich: Well, WSDL XML is no tame beast, but that'll say 100% of what you want
<mr-rich>
rking: I'm trying to use Ruby to communicate with an F5 device ...
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<rking>
mr-rich: Are you telling Savon the WSDL URL?
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<mr-rich>
rking: No kidding ... I'm finding that out ...
<mr-rich>
rking: yes, I have a small script working with a local wsdl file ...
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<atmosx>
apeiros_: I was about to ask you a couple of questions about arrays ('-' method) but I'm performing some tests to see how can I get what I want. Thanks, seems okay so far
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<apeiros_>
atmosx: you are aware that ruby comes with docs? :)
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<greenail>
also i'm confused about mutexes. Do i need to use the same mutex for accessing an object or would Mutex.new.synchronize{} work anywhere
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<greenail>
i guess people are cavalier about bool with threads becaus I've never seen while mutex.synchronize{run?}
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<Gate>
atmosx: the great thing about is_a? is it deals with inheritance, so if you have, say, an ActiveSupport::HashWithIndifferentAccess, is_a?(Hash) will still be true :)
<atmosx>
it's probably what you want, forget webrick. Also along with sinatra install 'thin' gem
<orion>
padrino > sinatra
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<atmosx>
yeah whatever
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<atmosx>
vim > emacs but the beard linux guy still use it.
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<atmosx>
Padrino is a ruby framework built upon the Sinatra web library. Sinatra is a DSL for creating simple web applications in Ruby. Padrino was created to make it fun and easy to code more advanced web applications while still adhering to the spirit that makes Sinatra great!
<swarley>
I use linux and i have a beard and i like unix
<swarley>
err
<swarley>
vim
<atmosx>
that look spromising thanks orion
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<Poapfel>
how do I modifie the elements of an array in a each block for exmaple if I have array.each { |e| e[elementnumber????] = newvalue } ???
<Poapfel>
as in how do I get the element number in an each block with an array?
<atmosx>
I still didn't understand exactly what you wanna do
<Poapfel>
I want to modifie the contents of an element in the array
<havenn>
Use the One True Editor for maximum productivity.
<atmosx>
swarley: I was positive!!!!
<orion>
Well, when I try to do this: ./vendor/bundle/ruby/1.9/bin/rails s it fails saying that it can't find the railties gem.
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<orion>
The list of available gems it presents is wrong.
* atmosx
lost an electron
<apeiros_>
0o
<orion>
It's looking at the system-wide directory, not the one I specified.
<apeiros_>
orion: not sure what you're trying to do…
<orion>
Does anyone know why this is happening?
<apeiros_>
but I think you want `bundle exec rails s`
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<atmosx>
orion: ask #rails
<apeiros_>
atmosx: not #rails
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<apeiros_>
#ror or #rubyonrails
<blazes816>
#rubyonrails
<orion>
atmosx: gems != rails
<shevy>
guys
<atmosx>
#ror ?
<shevy>
let's have sex
<blazes816>
if they go to #rails I have to redirect them
<atmosx>
yeah whatever that is
<shevy>
no please don't send them to #hell!!!
<atmosx>
that lame framework, who got me into ruby and that I never wrote a single line of code on it
<atmosx>
or in it
<shevy>
lol
<shevy>
you really did not write ONE rails app?
<atmosx>
I agree with the sex part
<shevy>
:-)
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<shevy>
I think I managed to do the one tutorial where you build some kind of shop ? in rails
<atmosx>
I don't get laid since... Sept and my gf is comming on saturday so I'm pretty up to the task.
<shevy>
I remember I used sqlite back then
<orion>
hmm
<shevy>
quite a long time, it's almost november
<atmosx>
shevy: seriously? I need to restart my sinatra book
<shevy>
and soon it is 2013!!!
<orion>
That seems to have worked apeiros_. In theory though, shouldn't what I have done worked?
<shevy>
sinatra book? a book? you mean, reread a book? a paper book?
<apeiros_>
orion: I think not
<atmosx>
I stopped because of a lame chemistry test, then a microbiology test, then I was just lazy and now I don't remember half the book... although I can read my code I'm not able to 'write it' by heart... sucks.
<shevy>
ah yeah I remember you spoke about that exam
<atmosx>
shevy: nah, pdf, iPad book
<havenn>
I thought this year was 2013, and now whenever I see 2012 I feel like I'm in the past :(
<orion>
atmosx: Why?
<apeiros_>
orion: your rails executable wouldn't know where to find what
<atmosx>
shevy: successful it was! (yoda speaking)
<shevy>
havenn I always get scared when I try to deduct 100 years... soon we have world war 1 start
<atmosx>
orion: what y?
<orion>
atmosx: Wrong person. Auto complete.
<orion>
apeiros_: So, the .gemrc file isn't consulted when loading gems.
<havenn>
shevy: Should we look forwards to the roaring 20's?
<atmosx>
orion: k, I forgive you.
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<shevy>
and both times austria was kinda involved :(
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<shevy>
havenn, dunno... I am always looking into a better tomorrow!
<atmosx>
shevy: I thought you were from Swiss
<atmosx>
ah no wait apeiros_ is the swiss guy
<atmosx>
that's why he knows everything
<shevy>
nah, apeiros_ is from swiss, I sit in vienna to the distant east of zurich
<havenn>
Mmm, Austria. Apfel strudel mit vanilla sauce.
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<shevy>
I mean, *is swiss
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<atmosx>
I'll be in Vienna next weekend
<shevy>
whoa why?
<atmosx>
I'll visit the museums and maybe a 3 or 4 michelin stars restaurant that you have there
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<shevy>
michelin restaurant? hehehe what's that
<atmosx>
shevy: my gf didn't visit Vienna and she wants to go... so... I thought why not
<shevy>
ah
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<shevy>
been a bit rainy and foggy the last some days :(
<atmosx>
shevy: it's a sort of category of "good" (as in expensive) restaurants.
<atmosx>
Yeah, next week here will be minus zero
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<shevy>
atmosx very strange... never heard of these
<shevy>
not that I really know the hotels in my own town :-)
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<shevy>
when I venture outside, I usually look for holiday inns
<shevy>
or family owned ones, those are kinda nice too... I dont like the huge ones and I hate the luxurious ones, the people there just don't quite fit to me at all in any way
<shevy>
"Sounds like literate programming to me. I know Haskell supports it and I've seen Ruby implementations (and there's the venerable CWEB, of course), so it seems like something quite within the grasp of most programmers."
<shevy>
ruby \o/
<shevy>
take this php
<atmosx>
shevy: what is a good restaurant that you know off, with traditional Austrian food (if there's any food that is not purely German)
<blazes816>
But\\Im\\Super\\Readable
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<shevy>
atmosx ohh that is a tough one... I remember I usually avoided local cuisine and head straight to korean kitchen hahaha
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<shevy>
hmm but I actually know one
<atmosx>
shevy: oh jeez, :-p if I wanna eat Korean, I'd to Korea!! :-P
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<atmosx>
shoot
<shevy>
atmosx not sure you'll like it though
<shevy>
yeah, but korean food is really awesome
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<shevy>
and it is also better in korea haha, anyway
<atmosx>
haha
<atmosx>
probabl
<atmosx>
y
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<shevy>
atmosx: hmm don't think so, I remember when my dad and I used to go there, we never needed one, but it's been a few years since we last were there hmm
<atmosx>
it's everything in German
<atmosx>
!
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<atmosx>
shevy: okay I'll bookmark it! danke shon
<atmosx>
(no umlaut here)
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<shevy>
atmosx hmm I need to check, I think there is also another restaurant right opposite to that one
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<shevy>
atmosx I can tell you tomorrow for sure which one it was hehehe
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<atmosx>
shevy: okay I'll be here I think
<atmosx>
no worries
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<atmosx>
shevy: except from the castle of Sissy (the princes and all her family etc) and the museums is there anything else in Vienna that I'm missing? :-/
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<wca>
IO#gets() seems to return less-than-a-line from streams with an active writer on the other end. Is there a way to get only complete lines or nil?
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* wca
has a hand-written IO method that does the trick, but wonders if there is a standard method to do it instead.
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<sjuxax>
I am doing some basic string replacement/calculation, and I feel it has made my script way, way slower than it should be. Would someone please revise this methodology and tell me what I need to do to make it fast? http://dpaste.com/817936/ Uses fake data, obviously; encoding real strings, not just numbers.
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<wca>
sjuxax: combine your two gsubs into one gsub. perhaps fix URI.encode_www_form_component() to remove the need for the third.
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<swarley>
woo finally it works
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<sjuxax>
wca: Copied encode_www_form_component call from the Ruby documentation. How can I go down to one gsub when they replace with different characters? Also, I believe this is an issue where Ruby's GC collects a bunch of dead weight and never lets it go, as my memory usage increases frequently and the program pauses frequently for what looks like GC runs.
<wca>
sjuxax: Regexp.union
<sjuxax>
This seems pretty crazy that I can't process a few hundred thousand elements without hitting this issue. I have another script with the same. Is there something horribly wrong in this code, or is Ruby just that bad for significant loops?
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<wca>
well, you are creating a pretty big string :)
<wca>
you have to imagine that under the covers, it's reallocating and copying that string at least a few times
<sjuxax>
Right, but it should let that string go after I nil it out between iterations of the 50k
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<sjuxax>
the string is never let go, memory usage just continues, and objects just collect
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<sjuxax>
and the program gets slower and slower as the GC pauses for longer and longer to see if it can collect any of the millions
<sjuxax>
You'd think that mutable strings would be an advantage in this case, right? Isn't this what they're supposed to be used for, rapid, massive modification?
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<wca>
hmmm. are you sure the reason it's slow is because of GC, and not because you're increasing the string size?
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<sjuxax>
No. I know on my other case, people in here told me it was a GC thing. Why would it make everything slow down so hard/often to allocate sufficient memory, and why wouldn't it reset when I zero out anyway? In real life, these strings are probably getting to like 10MB tops before the string is written to storage and zeroed back out for the next iteration.
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<ablankfield>
man, alot of people chill in here
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<havenn>
ablankfield: Chillax'n like super villaxens.
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<djbpython>
how can i parse a european formatted number to float? 4.567,123
<swarley>
from a string?
<djbpython>
swarley, sure
<djbpython>
ideally, it'd complain if it wasnt properly formatted. like 45.67,123
<yaymukund>
when negating variables, can I have a space between the dash and the variable?
<djbpython>
bummer there isn't anything built into ruby like other languages have
<yaymukund>
`-a` versus `- a`
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<yaymukund>
my friend tells me that the latter is incorrect, but I tested and they seem equivalent
<swarley>
yaymukund;
<swarley>
[14] pry(main)> - 1
<swarley>
=> -1
<swarley>
=> -1
<swarley>
[15] pry(main)> -1
<swarley>
what happens behind the scenes, is the method "-@" is called on the 1, to negate it
<swarley>
and since its infix, it doesnt have to be right next to the variable
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<yaymukund>
swarley: thanks. I just wanted to be sure because operator precedence has a way of rearing its ugly head in those weird edge cases
<swarley>
otherwise, this would be a syntax error as well, creating a new array of [1] instead of calling [] with argument 1
<swarley>
[16] pry(main)> k = [1,2,3]
<swarley>
=> [1, 2, 3]
<swarley>
[17] pry(main)> k [1]
<swarley>
=> 2
<yaymukund>
ooh
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<swarley>
I have a feeling (probably a wrong feeling) that the [] constructor may be a method call instead of a syntatical shortcut as well. But i'm not sure about that
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<matti>
swarley: What do you need to store?
<swarley>
?
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<swarley>
wrong channel? :p
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<matti>
No.
<matti>
zenspider will get all cranky at us ;d
<swarley>
oh lol
<swarley>
Its meant to be polymorphic (hence the use of the void pointers), so that i can extend it for use in general
<matti>
That is fine.
<matti>
You are storing pointers.
<swarley>
Yeah
<matti>
So you can store Ruby's VALUE
<matti>
Which is just a (void *)
<swarley>
Well, let me show you my two different structures
<swarley>
one will stay in system memory and destroyed when ruby actually wants the value, at which point it becomes the static version
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<swarley>
which is more efficient and compact
<swarley>
sec
<matti>
Ah, that adds interesting problem.
<matti>
You have to tell GC not to collect this objects referenced by this structure that always stays.
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<matti>
As it is ephemeral to Ruby VM, it will try to recall objects, but only you knows that you need them, Ruby wont.
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<swarley>
http://pastebin.com/rWAPNAhX pay no attention to the first data types introduced, those are going to be replaced
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<matti>
Do I make sense?
<matti>
;d
<swarley>
I'm going to wrap the struct when it gets raised to the VM, so that the free call gets made when the finalizer is run
<matti>
Ah, OK.
<matti>
;]
<matti>
On gcc 4.6 you will get warning about typedef'ing struct, BTW.
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<matti>
You'd have to prepend them with forward definition.
<matti>
Annoying.
<swarley>
Its going to be a DynamicXmlNode until the value is actually needed, at which point it will transfer into a StaticXmlNode (notice the smaller and more defined data types)
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<swarley>
The reason I'm doing that is because its easier to manipulate the dynamic structures, but the static ones are better once all the parsing is done and i know the size of everything
<matti>
swarley: I'd make top-level a tree.
<matti>
And each node would be later on a relevant struct.
<matti>
So you can traverse it easily.
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<ninegrid>
i'm having trouble getting capybara-webkit + cucumber to work with jquery... I am getting the error: undefined|0|ReferenceError: Can't find variable $ The only hint I have to go on is from the issues forum on the capybara github where someone indicates that it is a timing issue with jquery not being fully loaded... But there is no suggestion as to how to fix that
<matti>
swarley: Said that, I have never wrote an XML parser...
<swarley>
What do you mean by a tree? what the layout would be as is would be a node has a collection, and each of them has their own collection
<matti>
swarley: Just thinking out loud.
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<helichopter>
hi, sorry, I'm new to ruby, but how can I get the slice of an array from an index i to the end of the array? in python it would be like: myarray[i:]