<tdfischer_>
this sandstorm packaging stuff seems really really opaque to me and the whole bit about watching what files a process opens seems like the kind of magic that unintentionally breaks a lot of things
<zarvox>
It does allow you to access existing ones that have been shared with you.
<tdfischer_>
I think i'm going to play around with the packaging format to make it less scary to me
<tdfischer_>
rather, package generation
<zarvox>
tdfischer_: Amen. I've got some ideas about including Debian packages by name, rather than tracing file accesses
<tdfischer_>
I was thinking of something like that
<tdfischer_>
except I use RPM so
<zarvox>
*nod*
<tdfischer_>
I was thinking of just doing something like how rpm specfiles do it, just specify a bunch of paths and stuff in a flat file with glob patterns
<zarvox>
on my host, I use RPM, but I do all my dev in Debian VMs, partly because the C.UTF-8 locale is available by default there <_<
<tdfischer_>
and if you miss a file, your app breaks and its on you to fix it
<tdfischer_>
I can totally see the existing system not picking up files so at least the problem is still the same but there is less invisible magic
<zarvox>
Yeah, I agree that packages should be functionally reproducible without further developer interaction
<tdfischer_>
yea
<tdfischer_>
I'm also a strong proponent of docker so I might build some sort of packaging tool thing that isn't too radically different than the existing vagrant stuff
<zarvox>
This also will, in due time, make it possible to do automated building of packages
<zarvox>
Hey, if you want to build docker-spk, or something akin to that, that'd be cool too
<tdfischer_>
rather, a tool that'll take in the .capnp file and filelist, but you can run it in a docker container to ensure an uncontaiminated thing
<tdfischer_>
yeah
<zarvox>
also I'm uploading a libvirt-repackaged .box for you, because <3 libvirt
<tdfischer_>
<3
<tdfischer_>
I'm mostly unfamiliar with vagrant
<tdfischer_>
other than I had an employee dump that on me one day and everything broke so I just forced docker on everyone and said "this is why you shouldn't do ops on production if you don't know how to do ops and also please discuss these big changes before force pushing"
<zarvox>
tdfischer_: oh, some food for thought on packages: if there's a way to get image size down, that's pretty helpful. It's nice that .spks can be <100 MB when the baseline debian install is ~120 and the minimal fedora install is like 300-400.
<tdfischer_>
yeah
<zarvox>
Like, most SPKs are closer to like 15MB
<tdfischer_>
honestly, I'd like to figure out how to convert a docker container into a .spk
<zarvox>
I kinda wonder if there should be some packageset for things expected to run inside containers
<zarvox>
it's not perfectly straightforward, alas
<tdfischer_>
yeah
<tdfischer_>
might end up with some other configuration file glue that fills in the gaps
<zarvox>
due to the sandboxing, and paths, and no /proc, and authentication integration...
<tdfischer_>
right
<tdfischer_>
just a pipe dream
<tdfischer_>
:)
<tdfischer_>
is there some documentation on the .spk format?
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<kentonv>
tdfischer_: FWIW, if you gather all the files you want into a directory somewhere, you can point spk at it to pack it up, skipping the tracing magic. No need to implement the package format yourself.
<tdfischer_>
sure
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<sasattack>
how does updating of apps work in sandstorm
<sasattack>
I am not sure i understand
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<kentonv>
sasattack: do you mean "How do I update an app?" or "How does it technically work under the hood?"?
<kentonv>
sasattack: To update an app, currently, you do the same actions you did to install it in the first place, except with a newer package version. Sandstorm will recognize that the package is a newer version of an app that is already installed, and will update your existing grains.
<kentonv>
sasattack: Under the hood, each grain runs with the app's package mapped into the filesystem read-only at /, and the grain-specific mutable storage at /var. When a new version is installed, the app is restarted with the new package's files mapped at /, but without changing /var.
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<ak5>
hi, I just ran the script to install sandstorm on a fresh ubuntu 14.04 digital ocean "droplet" but I cam having trouble creating a user (or logging in)?
<dwrensha>
ak5: have you enabled any of the login services (Github, Google, passwordless-email)?
<ak5>
dwrensha: ok, I did not. I had just found a digital ocean tutorial... any support for something selfhosted like keycloak?
<ak5>
I am logged in now, this is pretty great :_
<ak5>
:)
<ak5>
hm for some reason all apps stall at 0%
<ak5>
during install
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<kentonv>
ak5: any errors in the server log? (You can see it in the admin panel.)
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<paulproteus>
kentonv: ^ probably related to swap
<paulproteus>
Oh during _install_ hmm
<paulproteus>
never mind; fascinating
<paulproteus>
Someone else has reported this too
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<ocdtrekkie>
Whoa... Gimp.
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<ArcTanSusan>
Do you know how to configure vagrantFilee such that “curl https://install.sandstorm.io | bash” can be port forwarded & accesssibe on a browser? (my native laptop is a mac OX)
<kentonv>
ArcTanSusan: Are you setting up a server for development or for real data?
<ArcTanSusan>
kentonv: local dev (where I fork&clone on a Ubuntu vagrant VM)