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<pod>
is there a way to "invite admins" or must I invite users and then make them admins?
<pod>
alternatively if I could just bulk-add admins without invites that'd be even better.
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<asheesh>
Hi pod
<asheesh>
You must invite them individually for now.
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<pod>
*nod* thanks
<pod>
good to know.
<pod>
out of curiosity is that an explicit design choice?
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<zarvox>
Well, for most identity providers, we don't know the user's id until after they log in. And I expected most organizations don't have so many admins that they need to issue bulk invites. I'm kinda curious about that usecase, actually, since it's not one I'd considered before!
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<zarvox>
I think there might be a reason why you want users to demonstrate intent to obtain an account before actually going through and creating one for them, but I could be imagining things
<zarvox>
It might be possible to make stub identities, and bind them to the actual users by email address, or LDAP search, or something. Would probably require a bit more thought.
<zarvox>
There are challenges with email addresses and mailinglists.
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<pod>
simple use case - setting up a sandstorm install for friends and want them all to have admin to install apps etc...
<pod>
i.e. converting an email thread into a sandstorm instead.
<pod>
using the email token login
<asheesh>
pod: You don't need admin to install apps!
<asheesh>
You "merely" need to be a User.
<pod>
oh. TIL
<pod>
thought admins had app install, users had grains galore
<asheesh>
pod: I am sitting at home and enjoying a beer, but will turn into a pumpkin at midnight sharp, so feel free to ask me anything else until then!
<pod>
I still need to commit to bits our tor related conversation last night
<iw3hxn>
this error log is: ./install.sh: line 192: 3: Bad file descriptor
<iw3hxn>
is correct the release of debian? Or need to use the 8 ?
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<asheesh>
Hi iw3hxn
<asheesh>
You probably need to use Debian 8
<asheesh>
However, can you please tell me - what hosting provider are you using?
<asheesh>
I ask because I probably added a bug to the install script, and if you can help me fix the bug then that would be great.
<asheesh>
It should give you a better error message than that (-:
<asheesh>
I need to go to bed for now iw3hxn but I hope you try on Debian 8, and let me know here what kind of hosting provider you are using. cheerio, asheesh.
<iw3hxn>
thanks asheesh i try now on debian 8. I not using any provider. Are on my VM
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<mrdomino>
asheesh: i notice that https://sandstorm.io/install still recommends creating an ubuntu 14.04 vm. perhaps that should be updated now that 16.04 LTS is out?
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<frigginglorious>
i can say that i havent had any problems with 16.04
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<yebyen>
i have a locally hosted sandstorm instance (sandstorm for work trial)
<yebyen>
and i'm having trouble getting Rocket.Chat grain to load up
<yebyen>
ohp... the debug tab tells me what I needed to know
<yebyen>
process out of memory
<dwrensha>
how much RAM does the machine have?
<yebyen>
1GB
<yebyen>
probably not enough
<yebyen>
i just turned it off and added another 1GB
<yebyen>
that seems like a lot of memory for Rocket.Chat
<yebyen>
but adding the extra 1GB solved it for now
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<asheesh>
Hi yebyen
<asheesh>
Glad that fixed it for you!
<yebyen>
thanks :D
<yebyen>
good of you to put that Debug button right there
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<yebyen>
i was probably about to guess it was out-of-memory
<yebyen>
but that error message settled it
<asheesh>
You're probably one of few people who manages to find that "Debug log" button! Glad you did.
<asheesh>
BTW, also, whoa csh.rit.edu!
<asheesh>
I have some previous-generation csh.rit.edu friends!
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<asheesh>
mrdomino + frigginglorious: Agreed; you wanna submit a patch to github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm-website ? I'll +1 it, if so. : )
<frigginglorious>
commit -m “replace all occurances of Asheesh with ‘that OG coder who murders bugs and makes shit happen Asheesh’ “
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<pod>
so I have a new install on $FOO.sandcats.io, but multiple users who I've invited by email have not received their invites, I'm guessing due to the mails being marked as spam
<pod>
given I don't "control" the subdomain and related DNS records, are there good ways of improving the email deliveability while keeping the .sandcats.io address? alternatively I could just buy a domain and wildcard cert and do all of this work manually
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<asheesh>
Howdy pod. For now, there's nothing you can do to increase deliverability. :-( ... except you can choose a "Server's own email address" that's not "foo@foo.sandcats.io" but instead "foo@domainyoucontrol.com" and then you can SPF/DKIM/etc domainyoucontrol.com
<asheesh>
OK, so yes there is something you can do to increase deliverabilityy.
<asheesh>
FWIW that's what I do on rose.sandcats.io; I created the domain notifications.asheesh.org and configured it with (iirc) mailgun.
<pod>
yeah it looks like that'll be the solution.
<asheesh>
I'll add a note to the docs today about that.
<pod>
yeah I initially tested w/ gmail and it was ok
<pod>
but the users that I invited, some of them missed their invites :(
<pod>
huh one individual didn't even see it in their spam folder. could I see logs of who was sent invites to double check?
<asheesh>
Those might be in the server log. BTW greylisting could be hurting you.
<pod>
to be clear: rejecting initial mail delivery attempts from new domains and requiring a retry?
<asheesh>
Yeah
<pod>
surely though that'd be in the order of a few (sub 12) hours delay?
<asheesh>
Looks like the server log doesn't log these.
<pod>
yeah apparently not.
<asheesh>
Looks like the server log doesn't log these.s
<asheesh>
er pardon accidental repetition
<asheesh>
Yeah, a few (sub 12) hour delay
<asheesh>
The good news for you is we already know we want to revise the way server invites work. Can I request you file a bug requesting this kind of log?
<asheesh>
Semi-sorry that Sandstorm is always a work in progress, but then again, I guess that's a good thing.
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<asheesh>
If your outbound email service has logs, then you can read that.
<pod>
it's a local postfix install, so possibly.
<pod>
adding TODO to open issue tonight, unfortunately otherwise occupied to do it it now. was hoping this would be a 30 second job :)
<asheesh>
b
<mrdomino>
asheesh: done
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<mrdomino>
sup yebyen
<zarvox>
asheesh: would it make sense for us to explicitly SPF-allow the last-updated sandcats address for foo.sandcats.io to send mail as foo.sandcats.io?
<asheesh>
Yeah, almost definitely would make sense.
<asheesh>
I can't think of a reason it wouldn't.
<asheesh>
It would also be pretty easy to implement.
<zarvox>
it's like one DNS TXT record that could potentially improve deliverability out of the box
<zarvox>
yeah
<zarvox>
I know you're going to be out of town for a while soon though. Hmm.
<asheesh>
I feel like I should think about it before implementing it, though.
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<asheesh>
That only really helps you if you operate without any kind of relay, right?
<zarvox>
Yeah, I guess it'd only help if you're running postfix/sendmail on the same server as Sandstorm, and configure "localhost" as your mail relay.
<zarvox>
I guess the "right way" would be to be able to configure your Sandcats integration in the Sandstorm admin UI.
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<asheesh>
With your chosen SPF IP?
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<zarvox>
Or perhaps with whatever you configured the relay address to be
<zarvox>
if, say, you specify "mail.zarvox.org" you'd want it to deliver from there by default, and only if that relays somewhere else first before exiting would you need to specifically choose an IP or hostname
<asheesh>
I think I agree, but I need to finish something else, so would be +1 on reading these thoughts in a different form later, and don't want to put you in a situation where you write a lot more in IRC and expect me to read it thoughtfully before I leave for a few weeks but then I don't so you're sad. GitHub issue might be smart.
<asheesh>
I extremely love this advice: "We identified a group of potential customers that would find a new feature useful and stayed in contact with them from idea to launch. By the time a feature is launched, we would have 5-10 existing customers already using the feature." http://blog.statuspage.io/growing-from-5000-to-25000-in-mrr
<zarvox>
Cool. I probably need to think about it more too; there are likely problems with my proposal (as there usually are with anything involving email)
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<yebyen>
asheesh: i think i e-mailed you once and said "my buddy Remy D knows you"
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<yebyen>
asheesh: i am not on-floor myself, i am alumni with a virtual machine here
<asheesh>
"sandcats.io users: Since the sandcats dynamic DNS & HTTPS service does not support special DNS records that improve email deliverability, we recommend you configure a Server's own email address on a domain you personally control, not your sandcats subdomain. Then, be sure to use an SMTP provider to configure that domain and your DNS provider to configure SPF/DKIM records."
<asheesh>
I also reworte the "Receiving email into Sandstorm grains" section.
<asheesh>
+/- typos
<asheesh>
yebyen: Ah hah! Neat.
<yebyen>
yeah, ! not a bad deal
<pod>
asheesh: +1 to that change
<asheesh>
pod: Super rad. Also I hope you'll enjoy the "Receiving email into Sandstorm grains" section.
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<frigginglorious>
mrdomino: would you tell us if you were famous?
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