marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | General project discussion | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<brentr123[m]> Apple just announced a m1 iMac, seems like we have a new toy to play with :P
<j`ey> and M1 ipad
<j`ey> kmutil on ipad??
<dottedmag> No detailed hw specs yet?
<brentr123[m]> imagine asahi on the new ipad
<brentr123[m]> oh my god
<jn__> hmm, i wonder if the iPad will have a security model typical for an iPad or typical for the M1 machines released so far
<jannau> I doubt there will be 1TR on the ipad pro. They could have announced Mac OS on ipad pro otherwise
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<marcan> I really want Linux on an iPad, but I put the chances of Apple opening up that boot chain at about 0.1%.
<marcan> so, not going to happen until someone finds a bootrom exploit.
<marcan> now where the heck am I going to put that iMac
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<marcan> maybe I need a big arm and it can live on top of my intel iMac?
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<j`ey> just replace the intel imac? :)
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<marcan> it's my main workstation, needs at least a year or so :)
<marcan> also, I wonder how well I could run gentoo on an M1 machine. I have a buildbox, but it's x86 of course
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<marcan> I suspect the best way to do it would be to run an arm64 userspace chroot with qemu-user for building, but then use distcc to shell out the actual compilation to a crosscompiler built for x86
<marcan> (either that or I make a cluster of M1 Minis as an arm64 buildbox9
<marcan> )
<kettenis> imac has the same 8-core m1 asthe other machines
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<kettenis> so not all that interesting from a developer perspective
<pipcet[m]> I'm sure they've renumbered the gP pins ;-)
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<marcan> I mean this is a 4-core intel imac...
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<marcan> hence the threadripper buildbox :@p
<marcan> :p
<bkero> marcan: just specify a binhost with gentoo
<dottedmag> kettenis: So iMac looks like a Mac mini glued to a display, hardware-wise?
<marcan> bkero: yes, hence I need to mark an arm64 binhost, which is what I was talking about
<marcan> *make
<marcan> dottedmag: pretty much
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<marcan> bkero: if I want to keep using the TR, I'd need to emulate arm64; hence the story with distccing the compiles to the *same* machine, but outside the emulation
<bkero> marcan: right, although something like crossdev removes the need to use any sort of chroot. It can be handled on the box directly without the slowness of qemu
<bkero> which would serve the same function as distcc there
<marcan> to build packages you need a chroot
<marcan> crossdev just installs the crosscompilers for you
<delroth> this is such a solved problem with nix :)
* delroth hides
<bkero> Right, that is another method. You can also use sysroot, which just prefixes instead
<marcan> I highly doubt sysroot will work for my ~2700-package workstation buildhost
<marcan> there is no way in hell a true crosscompiling setup won't break on tons of packages
<marcan> nobody tests this stuff
<marcan> hence the idea of using qemu-user, but distccing out the builds to a crossdev compiler outside the qemu-user part
<marcan> it's like that time I had gentoo on a wimpy cortex-a8 board, distccing out to my main machine, except it would be the same machine
<bkero> Yep, that is a way you can do it. It's slower and the emulation of the compilation/make/linking is unnecessary.
<bkero> But that probably won't add up over 2700 packages
<delroth> what I've been doing before having some proper ARMv8 board to run builds on at home is just get an EC2 m6g.2xlarge spot instance
<marcan> I guess I could just use The Cloud, yeah
<marcan> I do weekly builds, probably wouldn't be that expensive
<delroth> turns out you can even get a static IPv6 for free on EC2 (it's not well documented :) ), so I have graviton.delroth.net pointing there and used as a prio 2 nix builder
<delroth> when it's up it gets used
<marcan> hå
<marcan> then again, a mac mini cluster would be cute too
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<marcan> anyway, off to sleep
<delroth> if you want some build capacity temporarily uh
<delroth> I can possibly give you access to my lx2k board
<delroth> but really The Cloud is a great option for this too.
<marcan> unlikely to be worth it with the latency
<marcan> 16-core A72?
<marcan> also is it actually faster than an M1?
<delroth> probably not
<delroth> but builds shard pretty well in general
<delroth> outside of the critical path
<delroth> (except for the whole latency problem :-) )
<marcan> exactly :p
<marcan> either way I've been meaning to build a Ceph cluster at home out of cheap ARM boards... but if I get like 4 Mac Minis I could dual purpose them as OSDs and build hosts :p
<jannau> no, mac mini is way faster than 16 core lx2k
<marcan> nice built in fast as heck SSD for metadata, plug in some USB or TB HDDs for data
<delroth> A72 is a shitty core yeah
<delroth> mac mini might be the best option for perf/$ these days in terms of armv8 at home
<delroth> which is ridiculous given it's apple
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<bkero> wtb some cortex x1 sbcs
<jannau> it's a 5+ year old core
<delroth> (the reason I have the lx2k is more the 4x10Gbps SFP+ than the 16 core A72 :) )
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<choozy> Do any of you know if a part of the Correllium Linux changes are also upstreamed and how and if that interferes or interacts with Asahi's upstreaming efforts?
<j`ey> choozy: none are upstreamed
<sven> there was one upstreaming attempt by a third-party afaik
<sven> but since then there's been no interaction from them on the mailing lists
<choozy> Ah, I thought they promised to upstream it at some point...
<sven> speaking of which... i should get back to that iommu patch
<sven> choozy: i don't think that makes much sense from a business perspective from them. their core knowledge is virtualization and not maintaining linux drivers ;)
<choozy> Ah okay
<sven> their proof of concept was good work that showed off their skills and probably even helped them validate their hardware models.
<sven> but well.. if i was them i'd rather spend my time improving their hypervisor especially since there are enough other people interested in doing that upstreaming work
<pipcet[m]> I imagine they had a rogue employee working on it and don't know what to do with it yet...
<sven> hah
<j`ey> well their CEO was promoting it quite heavily pipcet[m] !
<sven> i mean that part makes sense. it was good (and deserved) PR for them
<sven> it might've just been a hobby or a 20% project :)
<pipcet[m]> not really, I expect it's the community reaction that made them reconsider putting more resources into it
<pipcet[m]> but, as I said elsewhere, they have email addresses and they do sometimes respond to emails
<klaus> more M1 macs coming .. it will be good to have proper linux on those too.. an imac and an ipad pro..
<opticron> yeah, the ipad pro at this point is nearly just a mac tablet which is neat
<pipcet[m]> sven: do you have the DWC3 working as a USB gadget in Linux or just in m1n1? I'm having a bit of a hard time doing the former
<opticron> though I wonder if the ipad pro is locked down
<klaus> especialy when we'll be able to have a good OS on them :)
<sven> pipcet[m]: linux
<sven> it was working in linux before i wrote the code for m1n1 actually ;)
<pipcet[m]> anything special you needed to do to get the UDC to show up?
<sven> so the easy way to get it to work is to setup the iommu to bypass mode from m1n1, add dma-ranges; to the device tree and patch the dwc3 driver to use 64bit dma addresses
<sven> for some reason their binding didn't seem to respect dma-ranges and was still stuck with 32bit addresses which won't work
<sven> (or maybe i messed up)
<pipcet[m]> is that code available somewhere? It'd be cool to get that to work and it doesn't sound entirely trivial :-)
<sven> i don't think i pushed it anywhere since it's more of a hack
<delroth> sven: "upstreaming attempt" might be overstating it a bit
<delroth> they dumped code on the lkml
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<zorun> hi, I've been following the project for some time, it's really interesting :)
<zorun> I'm an admin of the compile farm [https://cfarm.tetaneutral.net/], we have a M1 mac mini but it runs MacOS (obviously)
<zorun> I understand Linux support is not yet ready (e.g. NVMe) but I'm looking forward to the day we will be able to host a M1 running Linux
<zorun> we have other ARM hosts if it can be of any help for building stuff (the new Jetson AGX Xavier is nice)
<pipcet[m]> may I ask what the problem is with NVMe? It appears to work quite nicely here.
<bkero> pipcet[m]: Apple NVMe
<zorun> yes, support for NVMe on the M1
<opticron> I think the quirk was that it's a platform device on the M1 instead of being exposed over PCIe
<opticron> but overall still the same chip and no real expected issues using it
<delroth> probably still needs DART support to be upstreamed first?
<sven> nvme isn't behind a DART
<sven> it's behind what apple calls SART
<sven> which is.. another iommu i guess
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