sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<continue>
Hi, i got an idea id like some feedback on: Now for starters, i dont know if/to what extend routing and paymentdata-overhead might be an issue. The idea is to combine lightningpayments with torrent downloading. I have been breaking my head on monetizing torrentswarms for a while now, and i figured the most straighforward way could be to use the paymentrouting of a Lightningtx as a means to pay peers/seeders. Instead of paying them
<continue>
in a tx towards them, they are part of the payment-route and they take their cut via routing fee's
<continue>
would it at all be possible for the seeders to idenify the tx they are routing, and demanding a specific (higher) fee to route that tx, which is a trigger for them to upload the data to the 'consumer'
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<continue>
Though im not sure there is actually a benefit to this method other than just doing ''direct'' payments to peers, because you are increasing the liquidity requirements via this method...though depending on the size ammounts it may not be significant enough to matter
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<arubi>
more questions about eltoo and masking in taproot setting if that's alright, I'm going over aj's 'Schnorr and taproot (etc) upgrade' (I love the notation btw). I'm probably misunderstanding some basic thing here. for the "Settlement tx n", we use the "sighash_scriptpubkey" flag (described in the earlier email, basically bip118 afaict), yet the pubkey being used in signing is Qn, which is really a taproot of P+H(P,Sn)G. so we're blanking
<arubi>
the script, then explicitly signing it later on as a bip schnorr sig as H(R||Q||m). what's the use in masking the script here?
<arubi>
I really hope this makes sense.. let me know if not and I'll go bang my head against this some more
<sipa>
the scriptCode ("the actually executed script") is also included in the sighash
<sipa>
the masking applies to that
<arubi>
yea but what's the use of masking it if we're going to sign it anyway in the signature as Qn ?
* sipa
looks at aj
<arubi>
phew, glad I'm making sense then :)
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<nickler>
arubi: not sure if I understand your question but Sn is only used when the update tx output has to be spent by another update tx. The settlement tx is a direct spent using Qn.
<arubi>
nickler, Qn is a point containing the script at Sn, is that correct?
<arubi>
(as a taproot script that is)
<nickler>
yes
<arubi>
alright, so at the settlement tx redemption, we sign for Qn, but at the same time using the scriptcode sighash which acts as masking for Sn itself in the sighash
<arubi>
but when we actually sign for Qn, we also sign for Sn as the 'H(R||Q||m)' element of a key prefixed schnorr sig
<arubi>
so why bother masking Sn when we eventually concatenate it with the sighash 'm', is my question
<arubi>
really my ultimate point I'm trying to get across is that sighash_scriptpubkey, or any masking of the script /seems/ to be meaningless in a taproot setting, if you sign for the taproot pubkey in a schnorr key prefix sig
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<nickler>
hm, I don't see how it would be meaningless. Either you spend an update tx output with another update tx where you show Sn, apply masking and sign for <P>. Or you spend Qn directly with a settlement tx in which case Sn (including the mask) is meaningless.
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<arubi>
alright, update txs pay to Qn's, settlement txs redeem Qn. then in the settlement tx it says "witness: sig(Qn, sighash=in_scriptpubkey)" - we mask Sn and the input txid. but, we also sign for Qn, which means that the final hash we're signing for is R||Qn||m. so why mask Sn in 'm' and end up signing Qn, which explicitly contains Sn?
<arubi>
I realize you're saying just the opposite, that it would not be meaningless, but that's exactly what I'm trying to understand, how would it not?
<nickler>
"we mask Sn" <- I think that part is wrong because in the settlement case Sn isn't even released
<nickler>
*revealed
<arubi>
so what exactly is being masked? obviously an update tx paid for the settlement right? and it paid to Qn
<arubi>
settlement != cooperative
<arubi>
also thanks taking the time. sorry if I'm missing something fundamental here. I just don't see the point of the mask in settlement tx if we just end up signing the script anyway
<nickler>
nothing is being masked, there is no masking happening when the settlement tx spends the update tx
<arubi>
oh
<arubi>
it's just signing for no-txid.. sorry, I guess I misread the earlier email
<nickler>
yeah exactly
<nickler>
it needs to do that because the corresponding update txid changes depending on which update/funding output it spends
<arubi>
yea, oh man
<nickler>
happy to help :)
<arubi>
many thanks. makes sense now :)
<arubi>
okay, so what about actually using scriptmask in taproot?
<arubi>
ah, so you'd sign with P, and just execute S.
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