sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<elichai2>
Couple of thoughts about taproot.
<elichai2>
4. Do we really need so many different ways to have future upgrades? (tx version, segwit version, annex, first byte of control block, epoch, hash_type(?) )
<elichai2>
1. We can optimize the keys length to 32 by using the same restriction we use for the nonce.
<elichai2>
3. Why reject unknown hash_type instead of just not caching and hashing it on demand if needed?
<elichai2>
2. There wasn't any formal definition for `compact_size` but I think the size should be a constant size. Otherwise you maybe(?) could make a collision by moving the last bit of the size to the script if you could somehow make it valid (I need to think about it more tomorrow)
<sipa>
1. yes, there is a discussion on the ml about that
<sipa>
2. compact_size is defined by the existing bitcoin protocol; it's variable length, but that is ok; a good rule of thumb is that if you'd be able to deserialize the data being written into the hasher, it's collision free
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<sipa>
3. that's a mild DOS attack, allowing an attacker to make the verifier perform a lot more uncachable hashes (one per hash_type, so reducing the number of valid options helps)
<sipa>
4. probably not, but almost all of them are very cheap in terms of additional complexity in consensus rules
<sipa>
they also all have different scope (except the leaf version and op_success, which accomplish kind of the same thing; but the bits were available, so it'd be silly for force them to a certain value instead of permitting them as an uograde mechanism)
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<elichai2>
I'll look at the existing compact_size, curious how it's deserializable (although I might be missing something obvious right now, it is 2am lol)
<elichai2>
It's just weird that i.e sometimes we use a whole byte to check for point parity and sometimes just one bit
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<sipa>
elichai2: learn how variable length integers work
<sipa>
they're already used everyone in the protocol
<sipa>
(number of tx in a block, number of inputs/outputs, ...)
<sipa>
a different type of variable length integers are used inside script
<elichai2>
It's just that sha3 tuplehash RFC talks about appending variable length and then constant length of the length so I wondered but I'll look into it more
<sipa>
bitcoin core uses yet another type of variable length integers inside the utxo set storage
<sipa>
the best known variable length integer encoding is probably utf-i, which uses yet another type
<sipa>
protobuf uses one as well for pretty much everything
<elichai2>
Ha that's actually a pretty cool thing. So this can take at the very least one byte, right?
<sipa>
yes
<elichai2>
Interesting why tuplehash didn't use that
<elichai2>
sipa: cool
<sipa>
the bitcoin variable length integer is pretty stupid
<sipa>
there are nicer constructions
<elichai2>
Thanks for the answers, I hope I'm not bothering you too much :)
<elichai2>
Is there any one in specific you are thinking of?
<sipa>
the bitcoin one is just encoding 0-252 as that byte itself, 253 indicates a 16-bit number follows, 254 means a 32-bit number follows, 255 means a 64-bit one follows
<sipa>
it's good when almost all values are in range 0-252
<elichai2>
Yeah, otherwise you could just use the last bit to signal if you should interpret the next bit too
<elichai2>
Without saying how many more
<sipa>
i think the most common construction is thr BER one
<sipa>
it stores 7 bits per byte, plus one bit that says whether another byte follows
<sipa>
that's also used in protobuf
<elichai2>
Exactly. Idk why I've never heard/thought of that. I always tried to use constant size sizes when hashing (mostly just 64bit because it isn't feasible to have a byte array that it's length is 2^64)
<sipa>
what encoding is best depends on the cirfumstances
<sipa>
the utf8 one is pretty clever
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<sipa>
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