sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<GuthL> Does anyone know a way to provably leak a key on Bitcoin? Meaning a bitcoin script where to unlock the UTXO, Alice must
<GuthL> - Provably leak an another private key on secp
<GuthL> - Provide a signature from her address
<GuthL> Bob is aware of Alice address and the ephemeral public key
<zmnscpxj__> Scriptless Script, there are many variants of this
<zmnscpxj__> Basically given an (R, s) scheme, where s = r + h(P|R|m) * a, you can create an "adaptor signature"
<zmnscpxj__> Where you have R = R' + T, where T is the pubkey whose privkey Alice promises to leak
<zmnscpxj__> THen you can provide an "adaptor" s[adaptor] = r' + h(P|(R'+T)|m) * a
<GuthL> The idea I'm going after is definitely a scriptless script.
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<GuthL> Thanks a lot! Do you have a link for later reference?
<zmnscpxj__> Then completion of the signature s = r' = t + h(P|R'+T|m) * a
<zmnscpxj__> hmmmm not out of hand but maybe searching joinmarket.me blog for scriptless script will start you up
<zmnscpxj__> what I describe is for Schnorr signatuers
<zmnscpxj__> there have been Scriptless Script things that have been developed for a 2-party ECDSA as well
<zmnscpxj__> and maybe more
<GuthL> I'm looking for 2-party ECDSA mechanism. It relates to a cross-chain atomic swap.
<zmnscpxj__> trying looking in the lightning-dev mailing list archives, I think there was one a year or two ago, haha cannot remember years
<zmnscpxj__> tho the joinmarket.me blog might have some recent posts on 2p ECDSA
<zmnscpxj__> also consider looking up the recent discussion on Succinct Atomic Swap on bitcoin-dev, about a month or two ago
<zmnscpxj__> Which suggests a small atomic cross-system swap
<zmnscpxj__> that might work
<zmnscpxj__> tho see the Succinct Atomic Swap posts on bitcoin-dev mailing list as well
<zmnscpxj__> yes
<GuthL> Perfect! Thanks a lot.
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<RubenSomsen> GuthL: feel free to ping me if you have any questions about SAS
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<roconnor> If you want to provably leak a private key on Bitcoin Script today I think it suffices to demand a signtature that is very small in size, which can be enforced with OP_SIZE and OP_LT an friends.
<roconnor> A small sized signature essentially forces R to be +/- G/2 and hence forces k to be +/- 1/2 and then knowledge of k allows you to recover the private key from the signature.
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<roconnor> Technically this can be circumvented by a using a vast amount of computing power to find another R value that is just as small as G/2. I understand that require about 2^90 work.
<roconnor> (which is comperable to the total amount of PoW done in Bitcoin).
<aj> roconnor: you can circumvent it by pre-calculating a small R and changing the message to also get a small s, for 2*2^45 work or something, i think?
<roconnor> The message is hashed so it takes "just as much" work to grind a small s as it is to grind a small r.
<roconnor> You can define the signature and message first and use pubkey derivation to derive the public key for it.
<roconnor> but that requires knowing the message first, and usually in Bitcoin the message contains the pubkey.
<roconnor> (you'd want to make sure they aren't doing any CODESEPARATOR shenanigans here.)
<roconnor> aj: oh I see you grind r and s separately!
<roconnor> I don't know what I was thinking
<roconnor> Yes you are right.
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<roconnor> too bad we don't have high-S consensus rules.
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<aj> roconnor: yeah (talked about this with gmaxwell back 2015ish when thinking about it for lightning)
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<aj> roconnor: i think it might have been possible then to require setting r=g/2 and grinding s a little bit to make it roughly infeasible to grind both r and s and get the same result, not sure if that'd still work, and it seemed like too much effort at that point
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<waxwing> for reference the recent stuff about single-signer ecdsa adaptor signature (links to Fournier's paper amongst other things): https://joinmarket.me/blog/blog/schnorrless-scriptless-scripts/
<waxwing> i think it's a better setup for an ecdsa atomic swap than what we had before, only because it's a lot less crypto machinery. but i think the drawback is you use on-chain multisig.
<waxwing> i'm not sure if i'm remembering the details right, though.
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