sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<yanmaani>
what prevents someone from building a PoS network on top of bitcoin?
<yanmaani>
as in a sidechain?
<yanmaani>
Bitcoin works by taking electricity (scarce) and using it to create scarce bitcoins
<yanmaani>
PoS doesn't work because it tries to create scarce coins out of nowhere
<yanmaani>
but if you'd take PoS that uses scarce bitcoins for staking, wouldn't that work?
<yanmaani>
So the nothing at stake problem is solved by using the bitcoin network's block hashes as a RNG instead of the PoS network's, for instance
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<queip>
yanmaani: I guess no one prevents, but even such type of PoS is probably far less secure then PoW. And either way doesn't change the fact we need PoW in BTC.
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<yanmaani>
queip: The PoS can have security equivalent to bitcoin. Although the block reward would be 0.
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<queip>
yanmaani: I think it can not
<queip>
does it have same anti-censorship mechanism?
<queip>
in BTC in worst case you can became a miner, or "bribe" one
<yanmaani>
in this, anyone can place a performance bond
<yanmaani>
as long as there's no 51% attack it's fine
<yanmaani>
bitcoin doesn't handle 51% attacks either
<queip>
in any PoS, when 51% or 90% of them decides to never let in certain transaction, they will not lose money (only besides your txfee) for not doing so, right? while in PoW they also would be losing some block rewards?
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<yanmaani>
no, in PoW they could just mine empty blocks
<yanmaani>
same situation
<queip>
yanmaani: it if one of 49% mines it, they need to reorg him?
<yanmaani>
That's no extra work for them.
<yanmaani>
If they lose, they lose, that's bad. But in PoS, you can theoretically do things like "if you get reorged badly, your entire deposit burns"
<yanmaani>
so the equivalent of "do a 51% attack and your asic farm burns down"
<yanmaani>
In PoW, if you're 51%, then you can just ignore the 49%. There's no extra work to reorg them.
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<remaeus>
PoS only secure up to 1/3rd Byzantine actors, PoW is 51%
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