andytoshi changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit https://bitcoin.ninja
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<kanzure> andytoshi: NOINPUT with ECDSA (instead of schnorr) would be nice
<sipa> can we get rid of ECDSA plz?
<kanzure> but my pubkey recovery
<andytoshi> lol, noinput + ecdsa enables some pretty crazy dark magic
<andytoshi> kanzure: schnorr + OP_CAT gets you similar magic tho
<andytoshi> i have a blog post about thisbut it's not published because i got stuck ... i thought i could do recursive covenants but i'm still missing a step
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<aj> andytoshi: https://github.com/ajtowns/bitcoin/commits/202101-anyprevout has patches rebased on current taproot/master, to the point where the taproot tests are passing again, but there's no apo tests; might be better in a week or two
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<aj> andytoshi: i like https://gist.github.com/ajtowns/dc9a59cf0a200bd1f9e6fb569f76f7a0#file-scriptreplace-md for recursive covenants for taproot; i think you need some way of reconstructing P+H(P|S)G to do them in general, and CAT alone isn't quite enough or that (at least if you want to be able to exit the recursion)
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<andytoshi> aj: unfortunately my feeling is that any opcode expressly designed for covenants is either going to get bikeshedded for being too general or for being too specific
<andytoshi> agreed that you can't do P+H(P|S)G with just CAT ... at least not without revealing the secret key ... which unfornate because to effectively do covenants you need P to be NUMS, i.e. there isn't even any secret key to reveal
<andytoshi> i'm not yet totally convinced you can't do this, or do recursive covenants, with just CAT .. but i've been banging me head against this for quite a while
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<queip> andytoshi: (taking a blind shot) no way to like commit to some origin of P, use P, and only later when it is "safe" then release actual origin of P proving it was NUMS?
<queip> like in different blocks, and only after revealing P' the effects of operation are executed? P = hash(P') like namecoin does with domain names
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<andytoshi> queip: the problem is proving to Script that it's NUMS
<andytoshi> and also doing arithmetic with it
<andytoshi> i know how to do one or the other
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