<devyn>
guys, what if I write a trading bot and perfect it on past data
<joelteon>
i didn't understand any of that
<devyn>
joelteon: bitcoin works on SHA-256. 4,942,495 GH/s means the entire network (of all bitcoin miners) are collectively computing ~4,942,495,000,000,000 SHA-256 hashes *every single second*
<joelteon>
oh
<devyn>
joelteon: it's really brilliant. basically they ensure security by changing a nonce value until the SHA-256 hash is (numerically) below a certain 'target value'
<devyn>
as you know it's really hard to get a 256-bit hash with a bunch of zeroes at the beginning
<joelteon>
ok
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Whitequark: I've been thinking about it for a while … and I don't think I have the mind-space for a big roadtrip right now. /=
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
As disappointing as that realization is.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
If you decide to come to the U.S. independently, I do hope you'll visit Chicago first, and hang out for a couple days, though. I can definitely show you the sights, and probably some form of A Good Time.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and if you aren't going to do it independently soon, then we should talk the idea up again later this year, if I'm still unemployed and in control of my own time.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-topic s/.*/me/
purr changed the topic of #elliottcable to: me
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(Huh. Can't believe I haven't thought to do that, in *how* many years? It's accurate, though.)
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: ah, that's okay
<whitequark>
I don't know if I'm going to go to US independently, if I do, it's probably at summer 2014 or later.
<alextgordon>
hi ELLIOTTCABLE !
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Hi, Alex
<alextgordon>
how are you presently amusing yourself?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
How's the Bitcoin treating you? :P
<alextgordon>
very well
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ZeroBlock sez 841$ O_O
<alextgordon>
do you still have any coins?
<whitequark>
wow, 841
<whitequark>
the most use I've got of bitcoin as of today is buying reddit gold for amusing comments.
<whitequark>
it's really damn convenient
<alextgordon>
heh
<alextgordon>
it's a bet really isn't it
<whitequark>
a bet ?
<alextgordon>
either it catches on majorly, or it doesn't
<whitequark>
I'm entirely sure some kind of it will
<whitequark>
not necessarily today and not necessarily bitcoin, though that is quite likely
<alextgordon>
yeah
<alextgordon>
the progression is quite predictable in hindsight
<alextgordon>
first it was hardcore cryptogeeks
<alextgordon>
then hacker news frequenters
<alextgordon>
then criminals
<jvulc>
So is bitcoin a pyramid scheme for nerds?
<alextgordon>
then crazy investment types
<alextgordon>
then the chinese
<alextgordon>
jvulc: nah
<alextgordon>
I'm pretty amazed at how strong the crypto is, now that I understand it better
<alextgordon>
at the start I was like "eh someone is bound to find a flaw in it sooner or later"
<whitequark>
that'll probably still happen
<whitequark>
see md4, for example. or md5
<alextgordon>
probably not
<whitequark>
how can you be so sure?
<alextgordon>
if I'm correct, they would have to have practical a pre-image attack against SHA-256, RIPEMD-160, plus practical attacks against the nist koblitz curves
<alextgordon>
that's a tall order
<alextgordon>
I think attacks against the network are more likely than attacks against the crypto
<whitequark>
today, that's surely true
<whitequark>
that's not necessarily going to be true 20, 40 years after
<alextgordon>
I dunno, triple des is still secure
<whitequark>
quantum computing is going to be a practical attack against ecc
<alextgordon>
ah but quantum computing has no attacks against hash functions!
<whitequark>
sure
<whitequark>
so you'd have to invent something else for that
<alextgordon>
it all rests on SHA-256 then
<whitequark>
there's some attacks on sha-256. not practical yet
<alextgordon>
one thing to remember is that 256 is a big number
<alextgordon>
(lol)
<purr>
lol
<alextgordon>
but seriously most of the hash functions that have been broken have been low-security
<alextgordon>
like md5 is 128-bit
<alextgordon>
so it's easier to translate a break in md5 into a practical attack
<alextgordon>
but even if you can "break" sha-256 (have an attack faster than brute force), that doesn't mean you can make a practical attack against it
<whitequark>
sure
<whitequark>
but you could think about it in other terms
<whitequark>
sha-256 is broken, what now?
<jvulc>
I'm not encouraging this but Batman style brute force never fails.
<whitequark>
there's really nothing that guarantees that sha-256 will *not* be broken, it's just that we don't know how to do it yet
* whitequark
is playing devil's advocate. he is not a tinfoil hatter, in this case at least
<alextgordon>
I'm sure someone will break sha-256, but I'm doubtful anybody will ever find a practical attack against it
<alextgordon>
such is the massive gulf between the two acheivements
<whitequark>
not directly related; I was recently reading on the md4 attack
<whitequark>
turns out you can do it with just your head and a piece of paper
<alextgordon>
heh yeah
<whitequark>
that's fucking awesome
<alextgordon>
1st rule of cryptography: don't trust anything starting with "MD"
<alextgordon>
xD
<whitequark>
you know what's also fucking awesome? FTL.
<whitequark>
you really should go and play it, right now.
<alextgordon>
got to stress test my server
<alextgordon>
saturday is a good day for it
<alextgordon>
not sure which language to use
<alextgordon>
rust would be good for this
<alextgordon>
I'm going to try rust!
<whitequark>
was going to say it
* whitequark
has just compiled rust
<alextgordon>
need to have something with a good HTTP library, that can do multiple connections
<alextgordon>
hm node.js can probably do multiple connections
<alextgordon>
eh rust it is
<alextgordon>
whitequark: cuttle hates rust! it's the most hilarious thing ever
<alextgordon>
we're never happy in here
<whitequark>
lol why?
<purr>
lol
<alextgordon>
whitequark: something about the linear typing
<alextgordon>
hm I actually need rust on my server
<alextgordon>
unless I cross compile
<whitequark>
ah I remember that
<whitequark>
alextgordon: do you?
<alextgordon>
well my server is linux so...
<whitequark>
just copy the libraries and you're good
<whitequark>
could also build it statically I think
<alextgordon>
oops my node is way out of date
<alextgordon>
can't use node either
<alextgordon>
-_-
<whitequark>
alextgordon: rustc -Z static
<alextgordon>
whitequark: but if I run that on my mac it'll compile a mach-o binary
<alextgordon>
a macho binary
<whitequark>
ahhhh right, mac
<whitequark>
just download it on your server then
<whitequark>
& build there
<alextgordon>
but it needs llvm
<whitequark>
so?
<alextgordon>
gotta check the disk space situation :P
<alextgordon>
lol a lot of people mentioning orgies
<purr>
lol
<alextgordon>
you're right, this guy DOES remind me of EC
<whitequark>
ha!
<alextgordon>
fuuuuuck and all this could have been mine if I'd bought $20 worth of bitcoins at the start
<alextgordon>
whyyyyyyyy
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<whitequark>
argh, trying to get money to btc-e is one of the most frustrating things ever
<whitequark>
well, trying to do it quickly, i.e. not via bank transfer
<whitequark>
it doesn't work with visa, instead, it works with like a dozen of pretty shady e-currency systems, most of which don't work with visa either and require yet another party to actually perform the transaction
<whitequark>
and some of those want yet another step
<whitequark>
and all of them take ridiculous % so at the end they eat up to 10%