purr changed the topic of #elliottcable to: a _better_ cult || topics << 'gamedev'
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<kaplan_> Cheery,
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<Cheery> kaplan_: what?
<kaplan_> Cheery, ELLIOTTCABLE gifted me the dragon book, but it has some terms I don't understand
<Cheery> they do not read in the glossary?
<Cheery> I'd need some help with words too..
<Cheery> if I call a string or symbol a 'cell'
<Cheery> what's the structure part?
<Cheery> actually
<Cheery> if the structure is external and not internal, it appears as a cell
<kaplan_> Cheery, I mean, what knowledge do I need before reading it
<Cheery> what kind of terminology you meet?
<kaplan_> Cheery, I have done Deterministic and Nondeterministic Finte Automata
<kaplan_> Should I do context free grammars as well as turing machines too?
<Cheery> probably.
<kaplan_> ok
<Cheery> though I neither 'know' it all. reading up that stuff when it feels relevant
<Cheery> have had overview of everything, so I know when I need it.
<inimino> you should definitely know how they work
<inimino> kaplan_: are you new here?
<kaplan_> inimino, yes
<inimino> oh, well hi
<Cheery> inimino: all those fields are broad. Kind of like people have figured out and written down so many insights and observations about them. I've read through lot of that stuff but surely can't remember all of it.
<kaplan_> inimino, but I was here 4 years ago
<inimino> kaplan_: maybe I was here then too
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<Cheery> it's my editor's specification
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<kaplan> hello eligrey
<eligrey> don't need to do it every time i join
<eligrey> hey
<kaplan> lol
<purr> lol
<kaplan> ok
<Cheery> designed a new document model.
<Cheery> lacks transactions. I'm rethinking those.
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<kaplan> ELLIOTTCABLE, there?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> kaplan: 'sup
<joelteon> I don't understand why Youtube ads are like 4 minutes long
<Cheery> maybe they're pregnant.
<kaplan> ELLIOTTCABLE, your gift arrived yesterday
<Cheery> it looks like this now: http://i.imgur.com/GWZ6Uzv.png
<Cheery> after document model change, I really have to rewrite everything.
<Cheery> by tomorrow I'll have the improved schema.
<Cheery> I think I will call them grammars
<Cheery> the new grammar will gain several adjustments to how it's organized internally
<kaplan> Cheery, where did you learn all this stuff?
<Cheery> at home
<Cheery> after the change, the document model allows querying a context and the structure of every cell.
<kaplan> Cheery, at home?
<Cheery> yes. in front of a computing device.
<kaplan> Cheery, from where?
<kaplan> I mean which websites
<Cheery> from the internet, and maybe some books.
<kaplan> how much time did it take you?
<Cheery> probably a lifetime. I started when I saw a computer the first time.
<kaplan> how old are you?
<Cheery> 27
<kaplan> not really old
<kaplan> but about 10 years older than me
<Cheery> I don't think it matters. you can learn it if you spend time with it
<kaplan> hmmn yes
<kaplan> I have been struggling with some mental problems for the past 2 years
<kaplan> which put me off track
<Cheery> programming is probably not a good idea. the sort of point is that you tackle hard problems with programming.
<kaplan> not that kind of mental problems
<kaplan> schizophrenia and bipolar disorder
<Cheery> well it's stressful at least. sometimes there's simply no obvious answer to something.
<Cheery> and frustrating to try out many things to find out they do not work
<kaplan> Cheery, I want to contribute to your project
<kaplan> Cheery, if you have some tasks a noob can do
<Cheery> once I've found a thing that works, I think it's easier to contribute. But lets say you'd contribute now..
<Cheery> you could read through the documentation, ask questions and think up ideas.
<kaplan> Cheery, link to the docs?
<Cheery> and here's the source code: https://github.com/cheery/textended-edit
<Cheery> it's in several different versions now, and the master revision is outdated. I haven't yet pushed today's changes.
<Cheery> I pushed in 20 seconds ago
<Cheery> if you look at the source. lot of the files are broken now
<kaplan> Cheery, what OS do you use?
<Cheery> ubuntu, linux.
<Cheery> I will update the README.md
<kaplan> Cheery, what are the dependency names in ubuntu?
<Cheery> python-opengl
<Cheery> pysdl2 should be installable with sudo pip install pysdl2
<kaplan> how to install textended
<Cheery> I just updated it. If you had to still do something not in the readme, tell.
<kaplan> akshat@akshat-XPS-L501X:~/textended-edit$ python edit.py /samples/hello_world.t+
<kaplan> Traceback (most recent call last):
<kaplan> File "edit.py", line 6, in <module>
<kaplan> from sdl2 import *
<kaplan> File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/sdl2/__init__.py", line 2, in <module>
<kaplan> from .dll import get_dll_file, _bind
<kaplan> File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/sdl2/dll.py", line 113, in <module>
<kaplan> raise ImportError(exc)
<kaplan> ImportError: could not find any library for SDL2 (PYSDL2_DLL_PATH: unset)
<Cheery> sudo apt-get install libsdl2-2.0-0 libsdl2-image-2.0-0
<kaplan> a blank window just comes up
<Cheery> you open /samples/hello_world.t+
<Cheery> should probably put an error if the directory doesn't exist.
<kaplan> akshat@akshat-XPS-L501X:~/textended-edit$ python edit.py /samples/error.t+
<Cheery> python edit.py samples/error.t+
<kaplan> ok, I get something
<kaplan> Cheery, what to do now
<Cheery> try click on it a mouse
<Cheery> and click and drag
<Cheery> just started a rewrite, so it's not much now.. :)
<kaplan> ah
<Cheery> there's dom-experimental branch
<kaplan> so what is it supposed to do?
<kaplan> Be an environment like Scratch?
<Cheery> in the way it turns out now.. It'd seem to resemble a plain text editor or a spreadsheets editor
<Cheery> at least I've thought about using it a lot like vim, or an IDE.
<Cheery> if you checkout this branch, run the edit.py without arguments
<Cheery> there you see a different editor. basically structureless version of the last.
<kaplan> how to checkout a branch?
* kaplan is git noob
<joelteon> "git checkout"
<Cheery> git checkout dom-experiment
<kaplan> ah, kinda figured that out
<Cheery> the dom experiment got complete editing commands.
<Cheery> for a flat document model
<Cheery> backspace, delete, space.. and text insertion
<Cheery> just before the last branch I implemented those in the master branch
<Cheery> but it turned out it was hard to query the schema in my editor.
<Cheery> so had to improve that part.. easiest to rewrite it.
<Cheery> the point here is that the user would experience the editor as a sequence of text cells.
<Cheery> the equivalent commands in the structureful version should produce the exact same sequence of leaves as they produce in the structureless version.
<Cheery> the commands spindle the structure to achieve this
<Cheery> so some changes are really destructive
<Cheery> but it's sort of the idea
<Cheery> the structure can be annihilated and construction of the new structure isn't hard.
<Cheery> in the earlier versions I had navigation. but it turned out navigation isn't hard to implement.
<Cheery> the hard stuff is the modifications that make sense.
<Cheery> so going to add navigation commands only after the modification commands work well.
<Cheery> the navigation goes in the text cells though
<Cheery> it can take cues from the structure for 'power navigation'
<Cheery> kaplan: remember to checkout back to the master branch
<Cheery> if you have it running, you'll get to try the editing commands in few days. :)
<Cheery> if you're studying the source
<Cheery> keep in mind lots of the stuff is outdated.
<Cheery> the dom-experimental branch has been cleaned up.
<kaplan> ok
<kaplan> I am going to sleep now
<Cheery> same
<Cheery> gn