purr changed the topic of #elliottcable to: a _better_ cult || topics << 'gamedev'
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<\ELLIOTTCABLE> Anybody awake?
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<kaplan> hi \ELLIOTTCABLE
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> hi kaplan
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: around?
<incomprehensibly> hhi
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> whee
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> sorry, talking to #freenode now about getting my goddamn account back
<incomprehensibly> oh lol
<incomprehensibly> what happened to it
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> no idea. SENDPASS isn't working, none of my passwords work. pretty sure it was compramised.
<incomprehensibly> dum
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> well, anyway
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> incomprehensibly: you know I'm really not a fan of purely-functional languages. or even the *idea*.
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> it's 100% opinion, but I consider it to just be a really, really unintuitive and inhumane way to program.
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> but what do you think about this:
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> a ‘split’ object-oriented and functional language.
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> Ruby-esque O.O.; but instead of a soft *convention* for functional-ish stuff ending with a bang, *enforce* it with the runtime / syntax?
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> basically: side-effecting / mutating routines don't have any return value. literally aren't able to use the return statement or whatever.
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> and correspondingly, functions (using return), cannot mutate, or call anything but other functions.
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> the purpose thereof being, of course,
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> that *callers always know*. If they're side-effecting, they absolutely know it, without a doubt. In *syntax*, at the call-site.
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> kaplan: -^ give me more thoughts too
<kaplan> hmn
<incomprehensibly> hm sounds like effect typing systems
<\ELLIOTTCABLE> never heard of 'em but yeah that sounds like what I mean
<incomprehensibly> yeah like you can preserve a lot of the benefits of purity if you segregate the side effects away
* \ELLIOTTCABLE nods
<incomprehensibly> whether through ridiculous acrobatics like haskell or through stuff like effect typing
<incomprehensibly> like basically the reason i like haskell is you can write big complicated lazy list transformation expressions and they're incredibly clear and potentially efficient
<incomprehensibly> so like a good generics system would honestly be preferable to me
<incomprehensibly> to a pure functional thing
<incomprehensibly> and i mean an effect typing thing would *also* certainly be good yeah
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<incomprehensibly> with a really concise syntax like a bang yeah
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> generics?
<incomprehensibly> why did i say generics
<incomprehensibly> i mean generators
* ELLIOTTCABLE\ nods
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> related: I can't stop working on Paws
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> you, of all people, might know how to fix me
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> drowning send help
<incomprehensibly> what have you been working on
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> oh, nothing interesting
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> like, literally
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> haven't written any code in ages
<joelteon> more like incomprehensi BEE
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> did a lot of conceptual work on NLP, but never encoded any of it.
<joelteon> i'm trying to build my own copy of osx's security-tool
<joelteon> but for reasons unknown it gets rejected
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> here's some syntax shit:
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> but. yeah. not too interested in diagonal-execution / NLP at the moment, because I haven't yet really figured out a *use*.
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> just on my mind for whatever reason.
<incomprehensibly> wait Natural Language Processing
<incomprehensibly> Neuro Linguistic Programming
<joelteon> Ny Little Pony
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> incomprehensibly: no lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> non-linear paws
<incomprehensibly> arrow diagrams are cute af
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> riiiight
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> I'm so happy with them
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> but, again: seems completely pointless.
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> the graphs my syntax can represent still seem too restricted to be useful.
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> for instance, that last example isn't representable in an executable fashion: any of the roots (*blah) can/should execute in parallel; and that means inf-length at the end would be a race-condition with inf-affix above
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> and there's no way without *labeling* (ಠ_ಠ) them, to express that graph
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> vaguely considering doing something with two-dismensional programming; but given that I'm basically the only programmer I've ever met who *likes* aligning things in text …
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> and how much people complain about simple *indentation*-related whitespace sensitivity …
<ELLIOTTCABLE\> pretty sure that's a nonstarter.
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<ec> Wow. /msg Chanserv FLAGS ##Paws is a fucking throwback.
<ec> kaplan: you're not registered?
<ec> yay!
<ec> /msg ChanServ INFO #Paws
<ec> took years, but yay
<prophile> ec: syntax doesn't matter, it's the semantics that count
<prophile> therefore all languages should look like lisp