meowrobot changed the topic of #elliottcable to: Your topic makes my IRC client cry. 𝕯𝖊𝖓-𝖔𝖋-𝕯𝖊𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖒𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖉-𝕯𝖆𝖒𝖘𝖊𝖑𝖘 || #ELLIOTTCABLE is not about ELLIOTTC [string lost in sudden transmission termination]
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<alexgordon>
sup
<alexgordon>
incomprehensibly, ELLIOTTCABLE: yo?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: hi!
<alexgordon>
yo elly
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
sup
<alexgordon>
so I'm trying to find a set of functions that is turing complete
<alexgordon>
I mean, I know about the SKI stuff, but a _useful_ set of functions
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
lmao
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you just add combinators until it's sufficiently not-tarpit-y, basically
<alexgordon>
yeah but which!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I can't recall but there's a wikipedia page on it
<alexgordon>
feel like I am going about this the wrong way
<alexgordon>
it's not very general
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
reduce*
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
reduce covers map etc
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
iirc
<alexgordon>
it does?
<alexgordon>
like... imperative programming covers a lot of this stuff too
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
idk heard it in a podcast I think
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
the catamorphism?
<alexgordon>
cats
<alexgordon>
-cats
<alexgordon>
dammit
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
purr is dead, long live the purr
<alexgordon>
lol searching for "implement map with reduce" is completely useless
<alexgordon>
mapreduce everywhere
<alexgordon>
oh I get it
<alexgordon>
just reduce with cons
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
butter chicken
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
no onions!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
better.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: are you sane now?
<alexgordon>
you hardly ever talk about paws
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I miss Paws so much >:
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and no, I am categorically not
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
cf. last night's conversation about all my scary brain-doctor appointments over the next two weeks
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm *maybe* going to contribute to Tulip, if I can find the spoons to dig into their code
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
the two creators are way too busy for me, and I'm like, Not Actually Know Much About Plt, so spelunking that codebase is going to be ... a challenge
<alexgordon>
1) brain doctor?
<alexgordon>
2) Tulip?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
get a fucking bouncer *eyeroll*
<alexgordon>
lol
<alexgordon>
help me understand
<alexgordon>
otherwise I will have to get icecream
<alexgordon>
I will probably get ice cream either way
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
more usefully, watch this video, which is the one that convinced me that if I can't convince anyone to build Paws with me, Tulip is a close second
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: so I've decided that the easiest way to have fewer functions is to expand the definition of a function
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<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: mmm think you will like this
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: no
<alexgordon>
no?
<alexgordon>
boring elliott strikes again
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: learn paws?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
or the non-boring bits thereof
<alexgordon>
me?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I fixed ownership, it's p. slick
<alexgordon>
I have
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ownership (locking.) can now be put on offer, which is a taint that flows through the call-graph allowing callees to take that ownership, but disallowing anything else in the program from doing so
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
tl;dr atomic lock transfer, but without mutual self-knowledge amongst the participants
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
which is v. important in a language this dynamic
<alexgordon>
ok you're insane again
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what is insane about any of that I tried v. hard to use normal words
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
if you have a function that has to operate on some data in a shared-memory situation, but it needs to *delegate* some bit of work to another function,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
then you'd normally do something like an atomic transfer of locking – “I discard this lock *but only* to specifically give it to <other delegated operator>.”
<alexgordon>
okaaaaay
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
*but*, in a language like Paws, where there's almost literally *guaranteed* to be several, if not dozens, of abstraction layers *you don't know about* between yourself and who you *think* you're delegating to,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
yes this is clear yes yes?
<alexgordon>
no :(
<alexgordon>
it is 5am now
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's important to say “I delegate this to somebody I call”, without actually knowing precisely what you're calling
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh okey >:
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: my idea is for a garbage collected, statically typed assembly language
<alexgordon>
instead of writing functions, you write instructions
<alexgordon>
an instruction is like a function (it's statically typed) but you can jump out of it
<alexgordon>
which means that all the usual asm instructions are on an equal footing with user defined functions
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
none of this makes any sense to me
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
*why*
<alexgordon>
ok because in most programming languages except functional languages theres a really sharp divide between control flow and operations
* ELLIOTTCABLE
eyebrows
* ELLIOTTCABLE
points at Paws
<alexgordon>
lol
<alexgordon>
e.g. you can't write a "break;" function, because "break;" is something that jumps
<alexgordon>
and this is really sad because conditional jumps are like the definition of a turing machine
<alexgordon>
so I want to unify the "control flow bits" like if, break, continue, while, with the operations like + * - log() map() etc
* ELLIOTTCABLE
sips scotch
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
that's a good goal
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I don't get the "assembly" bit
<alexgordon>
well I'm just not interested in syntax with this :P
* ELLIOTTCABLE
eyeroll
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
use s-exprs or some shit
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
copy paws' non-syntax
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
assembly tho whut
<alexgordon>
well it's an imperative language
<alexgordon>
actually the reason I started this is because I was trying to design a language for artificial intelligence
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ur mom's an artificial intelligence
<alexgordon>
maybe I should start from the beginning
<alexgordon>
at some point we will have the singularity right? which I'm defining as the point at which computers can write code better than humans and construct ever better AIs in a positive feedback loop
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
noooo
<alexgordon>
but if a computer was writing code, what language would it write code _in_?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
i'm too full of inidian
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(and not full enough of scotch)
<alexgordon>
go sit on the toilet then
<alexgordon>
so I started trying to design a language for an AI to use
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
no
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
stopppp
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
talk to me about dogs
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
u wan se dog
<alexgordon>
I don't have a dog
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
?? /?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
WHAT
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ALEX GORDON
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
U R GIANT CAT
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
U MUST HAV COGDOG
<alexgordon>
lmao
<alexgordon>
COCKDOG?
<alexgordon>
maybe I shouldn't google that
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-g cockdog
<alexgordon>
-34 cockdog
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-34 cockdog
<alexgordon>
:D
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
this test won't pass
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
i can't figure out
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
i am so bad @ debuger
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
jfhbrook_!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
someone lives mby?
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<gnomon>
ELLIOTTCABLE, congratulations on KL4JC!!
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<jfhbrook_>
ELLIOTTCABLE: hmm?
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gnomon: :3
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gnomon: get licensed! or are you already and I forgot
<gnomon>
ELLIOTTCABLE, I am not yet, no. I keep meaning to but my life is very short on time to spend on self-actualization projects.
<gnomon>
ELLIOTTCABLE, but it's on The List(tm)!
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ahhah well technician is *violently* easy
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like literally: set aside one whole Saturday from other *learning* projects
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and listen to the same audiobook I just lent incomprehensibly
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you can drive around / run errands / do house projects while listening, it's very having-a-life compatible
* gnomon
sighs wistfully
* gnomon
scans down the list of Saturdays dedicated to other learning projects
<gnomon>
Oh, for the days, for those lovely days.
<gnomon>
Seriously though, I've tried the audiobook thing. Continuous partial attention and I are not friends. I'm primarily a kinaesthetic learner with some visual thrown in. Audio stimulus is basically background noise for me.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I generally agree
<gnomon>
And I know I don't need to read and internalize the whole AARL handbook to pass the technician license, but I'm really enjoying (slowly) getting through it.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm saying, like, *specifically* this book is built to cater to this :P
<jfhbrook>
aarl?
<gnomon>
heh
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ARRL*
<gnomon>
derp
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
American Relay Radio League
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-g aril @ jfhbrook
<gnomon>
jfhbrook, the sound you make when accidentally putting a few too many M&Ms in your gaping maw at one time.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“read the damn topic”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“go google this”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I love how bot commands are now *you* commands
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“think of a previous funny thing that happened in this channel, remember it for a moment, laugh out loud, then return to what you were doing”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
~aaaaahrl~
<jfhbrook>
what, did you break your bot?
<gnomon>
arrghrgrhgrhgrhl
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
bot's dead long live bot etc etc
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
idk i'm too lazy to go fix his home i think he's trapped in there but whatever
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
BOTS DON'T HAVE FEELINGS OKAY, DON'T JUDGE ME