* tabemann
has numbered labels working now in zeptoforth
<tabemann>
(for disassembly)
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<tp>
tabemann, brilliant!
<tp>
g'day Zarutian_HTC
<tabemann>
I also fixed a bug I introduced in referenced labels
<tabemann>
also now gas mode converts labels containing non-alphanumeric-plus-underscore labels into alphanumeric-plus-underscore labels
<tabemann>
you should be able to actually feed the gas mode code into an assembler now
<tabemann>
with the sole exception that, were you to integrate that code into the zeptoforth kernel, you'd need to change up the labels, since the internal zeptoforth labels don't conform to the conventions used by the disassembler
<tabemann>
but that shouldn't be too hard
<tabemann>
I should go to bed though
<tp>
nice, I'll try iyt out
<tp>
I might see if I can add RTS handshaking with it :)
<tabemann>
hehe
<tp>
tabemann, I should be able to do a fair bit with Zeptoforth now :)
<tabemann>
just remember, ANS c@ c! c, are b@ b! b, in zeptoforth
<tp>
no problemo
<tp>
i prefer "b" myself
<tabemann>
I don't like the implication that a byte is a character implied by c@ c! c,
<tabemann>
as everything in the Real World is based on either UTF-8 or UTF-16 today
<tp>
yeah, but we just dont have enough variation
<tp>
bits, byte, binary
<tabemann>
tis true
<tp>
yeah, ANS is perhaps outdated, does anyone care ?
<tp>
or are they still too busy debating everything in ANS ?
<tp>
luckily any Forth programmer can handle variations
<tabemann>
zeptoforth already implements a sufficient subset of the functionality in ANS
<tabemann>
with some differences, like the above or how it handles exceptions differently
<tabemann>
and how it handles RAM versus flash (which ANS doesn't really address properly)
<tp>
i say screw ANS, just use uncommon sense!
<tabemann>
there are a few areas where it clearly lacks functionality, such as it has only two dictionaries, RAM and flash
<tp>
I think that working out and adapting to the differ`ences in every embedded Forth is just the price of entry to a programmer
<tabemann>
but implementing them would have made it unnecessarily complex
<tp>
Mecrisp-Stellaris only has one dictionary
<tp>
that works fine for me
<tabemann>
okay, I should actually go to bed now
<tp>
we have "VOC's" if we want but frankly I agree with rdrop-exit here, all that stuff makes it more complex, not less
<tp>
okies, night tabemann
<tabemann>
g'night
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<crab1>
I have no idea, I have 0 experience with hardware, want to get into it, don't know where to start
<crab1>
except I have a simple project in mind: RPN calculator
<CORDIC>
ATmega328P is the current revision, and just 0.1 bits larger. ATxmega* is 0.2 bits larger ;) .
<crab1>
and my googling seems to imply that one of those ATmega microcontrollers would be suitable
<CORDIC>
It can be conveniently loaded as a serial FLASH device: ""In System Serial Programming"". Reset Pin becomes CS and others are the same SPI peripheral available to... application.
<CORDIC>
You can think of it as a Flash Memory Device with a CPU as it's Peripheral.
<crest>
crab1: even for AVRs the mega8 is an old part
<crest>
can it even write the code flash at runtime?
<crab1>
I have no idea
<crab1>
I know nothing
<crest>
because the sram is going to be a tight fit for a forth system *cough*
<crest>
why do you want to use an atmega8?
<CORDIC>
Yes, from ""BOOT FLASH"" in parallel.
<crab1>
I don't specifically want to, it just came up when I was googling
<crab1>
like I said, I'm inexperienced and and have no idea where to start
<crest>
get a blue pill for $2-3 and play with mecrisp stellaris?
<crest>
a usb <-> 3.3v serial convert is all you need to flash the chip
<CORDIC>
I guess tp's website would be a good start. No, ""Blue Pill"" is not a good idea.
<crest>
CORDIC: it depends
<crest>
he doesn't like them
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<CORDIC>
$100 is not much for a _DevBoard_. Why would anyone punish himself with a Blue Pill for $3?
<crest>
you can get an official devboard for way less than $100
<MrMobius>
crab1, what are you planning? that will help decide what chip to pick. do you want a 4 level RPN stack like the old HPs or something more sophisticated?
<crab1>
So far I have no constraints. It would be cool if it was programmable, but that's not a necessity, I'm not really opposed to a 4 level stack if it significantly simplifies things
<MrMobius>
crab1, it would make it simpler and you can implement keystroke programming like on an HP 41
<MrMobius>
and basically any microcontroller will have enough ram for that so you dont have to worry about external memory
<crab1>
yeah keystroke programming would be just fine
<MrMobius>
are you planning on a surface mount board ot through hole?
<crab1>
no plans, I don't even know precisely what those mean except that they sound self explanatory
<crab1>
but I don't no the implications of choosing one of the other
<crab1>
s/no/know
<crab1>
s/of/or
<MrMobius>
through hole is the largest type of chip. you can put it on a breadboard and buy a protoboard for about $1 with a grid of holes and solder up anything you like
<MrMobius>
smd means you need to get a custom board made which you design in a program and then have it shipped to you from china and hope you didnt make a mistake. the good side is the best chips only come in surface mount and your board is better quality/more professional
<crab1>
through hole sounds better for prototyping
<MrMobius>
right. definitely if youre a beginner
<MrMobius>
so the best choices will probably be MSP430, AVR, or PIC32
<MrMobius>
all have C compilers. youll have to see what there is if you have your heart set on forth. there is a good one for msp430 but it requires a separate ARM board that sits between the PC and msp430, so maybe not 100% beginner friendly
<MrMobius>
tp here is the resident expert on that
<crab1>
On the programming side I'm not picky for this project, even assembly suits me fine
<MrMobius>
MSP430 is pretty easy to get going. dev board including two chips is like $12. thats what I started with. downside is max 512 bytes ram
<MrMobius>
pic32 has 64k ram, 256k flash, and 50mhz so very beefy. programmer is like $40 iirc
<crab1>
hm that MSP looks familiar I think my Dad gave me one of those launchpad dev boards like 10 years ago before I was even in highschool
<MrMobius>
might make sense to pick the one you think will be useful to you in future projects and get familiar with it
<MrMobius>
thats great. you can just use that if you still have it
<crab1>
I'm not sure if it's still around somewhere, I'll have to look
<crab1>
if I have it I bet the pins are bent to shit
<crab1>
I recal trying to unbend them at one point and only making it worse
<crab1>
recall*
<crab1>
I may have thrown it out
<crab1>
which one of those 3 is best for power consumption
<MrMobius>
you could get one of the newer ones if you have the spare cash. they run at 3.3v instead of 3.6v and have an energy monitor built in which is very nice
<MrMobius>
not sure tbh. msp430 is known for being super low power, but not sure in practice it will be much better than pic32. never used AVRs so no clue
<MrMobius>
the thing with a calculator is you will spend the majority of time sleeping, wake up to service a key press, then immediately go back to sleep so energy usage should be tiny
<MrMobius>
I calculated using the one I made with an msp430 for like an hour a day and having a watch battery last over a year
<crab1>
yeah, I've also thought about making a watch/clock and I see watches with calculators built in that last like 5 years on a battery and that sounds crazy to me
<MrMobius>
heh ya. a watch needs to wake up like once a second
<MrMobius>
even a calculator has to wake up a few dozen times a second and read 40 or so keys
<crab1>
I wonder if a watch that recharges with solar power is feasible
<crab1>
I'm not sure a nice rechargable watch battery like that exists
<crest>
crab1: there are watched powered by your wrist movements
<MrMobius>
and you need room on the watch for the solar panel
<crab1>
right
<crab1>
there are those calculators with little solar panels on them
<MrMobius>
yep
<MrMobius>
dunno if that would be easy to recreate your first go around though :P
<crab1>
yeah no I'm not planning on that
<crab1>
not even planning on a watch
<crab1>
programmable calculator sounds easier than programmable watch
<MrMobius>
hehe, not necessarily
<MrMobius>
you could walk around with an enormous watch
<MrMobius>
the IAR C compiler is kind of neat. the free version limits you to 8k but you can simulate your program and it has console input and output
<MrMobius>
so you could use that to test your interface then switch to gcc for compiling which has no restrictions
<crab1>
IAR is proprietary tho
<MrMobius>
ya doing it all in gcc and just testing it directly on your hardware is an option too
<crab1>
if I end up going with C, we shall see
<MrMobius>
one advantage is if you get used to the msp430, you can move on to the forth system I mentioned before. it does a good job of optimizing which many mcu forths dont do