09:48 <neuro_sys> I want to get more fluent in writing Forth code

11:49 <cmtptr> i want to get fluemt at reading forth code

11:51 <cmtptr> i know what all of the words mean, but even when i step back and look at code i just wrote, it looks like gibberish to me

12:07 <MrMobius> they dont call it a "write only" language for nothing

12:26 <cmtptr> i've been playing with factor lately, thinking maybe a higher-level forthlike would give me some insight. but the truth is, i have the same problem with functional programming languages, so factor just represents the intersection of two illegible things for me

12:31 <hosewiejacke> Switching paradigms, e.g. procedural to functional, takes time (I know this from experience).

13:59 <neuro_sys> cmtptr: Is it any worse than writing assembly code?

14:00 <neuro_sys> In which case commenting almost every line helps a lot

14:01 <neuro_sys> Forth feels a lot like assembly code, but working only with the stack instead of registers requires me to unlearn register idea.

14:02 <neuro_sys> But it's even better than assembly where you can create instructions (words) as you go. Just need to get comfortable with stack manipulation.

14:02 <neuro_sys> (I meant to say whereas in Forth you can create instructions (words) as you go)

14:03 <neuro_sys> I'll move on to Factor later once I'm fluent with Forth

14:08 <hosewiejacke> Another advantage of Forth over assembly: it's (mostly) portable.

14:12 <siraben> Indeed. I was able to run https://forth-standard.org/standard/testsuite (modified to remove floating point tests) on my TI-84+ Forth without problem.

14:13 <siraben> Or this random RC4 example from Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_(programming_language)#A_complete_RC4_cipher_program

14:25 <cmtptr> neuro_sys, admittedly, though i'm perfectly comfortable with assembly, i don't typically write it directly. so i'm not sure what my feelings would be if i went back and tried to write an entire program in assembly today (i haven't done that since college), or how it would compare to how i feel about forth

14:28 <siraben> I know that without Forth it would be much more difficult for me to do low-level hacking directly on the TI-84+ itself. Although since it has no error handling sometimes I plan out a bit on paper before typing it in the REPL.

18:56 <neuro_sys> I started writing assembly fairly often a year ago or so, and it's got really comfortable over time. I think the same applies to Forth, but it's obviously somewhat easier to write starting code due to existing useful words.

18:57 <neuro_sys> s/starting code/forth/