azonenberg changed the topic of #homecmos to: Homebrew CMOS and MEMS foundry design | Wiki: http://homecmos.drawersteak.com/wiki/Main_Page | Repository: http://code.google.com/p/homecmos/ | Logs: http://en.qi-hardware.com/homecmos-logs/
<diginet> Sync__: HOW DO YOU AFFORD THESE!?!?!? lol
<diginet> and more to the point: where can I get one?? lol
<Sync__> on that note, got two more ballscrews
<Sync__> just hunting down two stages
<diginet> how much was the turbo?
<Sync__> 53€
<diginet> wow. . .that's like $110
<diginet> where? ebay?
<Sync__> jup
<diginet> are they somehow cheaper in Eurozone?
<Sync__> no
<diginet> ah
<diginet> well, is it the sort of thing where cheap ones are going to need all kinds of servicing?
<Sync__> I'm just in my exam phase and became pro at finding good deals on ebay
<Sync__> well
<Sync__> it depends
<Sync__> it runs, which is good
<Sync__> but has loud bearings, not a huge deal for a hobbyist
<Sync__> if so the cartridge is pretty cheap anyway if they finally let go and don't kill the rotor
<diginet> what type bearings does it use? magnetic?
<Sync__> no, magnetic bearing pumps are pretty rare
<Sync__> or rather rare that cheap
<Sync__> it just uses plain oil lubed bearings
<Sync__> it's not too fast, 50000 rpm or something
<diginet> that's. . .it? wow
<diginet> so I'm looking through ebay, the "cheap" ones seem to mostly lack controllers
<diginet> that a problem?
<Sync__> well
<Sync__> yes
<Sync__> you can build your own, sure but I'm not a friend
<Sync__> I'm just going to buy the controller for mine
<diginet> I mean, is it a problem as in can you realistically build your own
<Sync__> yes it's not hard
<diginet> really?
<Sync__> yes
<diginet> I mean, are there like. ..instructions online?
<Sync__> learn how electric motors work
<Sync__> somebody made a driver for tph055s on fusor.net
<diginet> I know how they work, but surely there's more to it than just a regular motor controller
<Sync__> not really
<diginet> urgh, fusor.org
<diginet> love hate
<diginet> I'm so bloody sick of that kid
<Sync__> huh?
<diginet> the one that keeps pandering so hard because he built a "fusion reactor" at 16
<Sync__> oh that guy
<diginet> technically, nothing he says is false, he's just I dunno
<Sync__> yeah total dickhead
<diginet> he talked to the president about "his ideas for the future in energy"
<Sync__> building a fusor is not even an engineering challenge anymore
<diginet> somehow, I somehow doubt someone who thinks making a glorified purple light bulb is the right person to talk to
<diginet> no, it's a "having rich parents challenge"
<Sync__> not even that
<Sync__> you can build one for under 2-3k
<diginet> most teenagers don't have that kind of disposible income
<Sync__> uh huh
<diginet> okay, well I didn't, nor did anyone I know
<diginet> anyhow, what really pisses me off are the people getting free rides into MIT
<diginet> HURR DURR they used the word "fusion" they must be geniuses!!!11!!1one!!!
<Sync__> well it's not like I'd have that lying around but taking your time that is not a lot of money
<Sync__> but most of the guys there are pretty good
<Sync__> but it really depends on the pump and which kind of motor it has
<diginet> yeah but the admin last time I was there did nothing but whore that kid out
<Sync__> well it is a feat but nothing special
<Sync__> you can today buy everything you need off ebay for reasonable prices
<diginet> I suppose so, but it just bother me because it's so superficial. It bothers me that MIT admssions, who should know better, are going to admit the kid who built a machine which makes pretty purple lights and contains the words "fusion" and "nuclear" over someone more deserving
<Sync__> and if you are willing enough you can cheap out everywhere
<diginet> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm neutrons
<Sync__> I could care less about a mit admission
<diginet> MIT is pretty obnoxious I suppose, it's filled to the brim with charlatans
<diginet> granted, there are some useful things you can do with them, like neutron activation analysis, funny how you never see fusortards talking about that (well, the mediawhore-ish ones anyway)
<Sync__> some of them are into that
<Sync__> I have the equipment here for all of that
<Sync__> but I just needed a conflat sealed turbo that I could use as a throwaway pump
<diginet> yeah I know, I'm just saying it's funny how the people who of themselves as the next Einstein aren't actually talking about the useful things a fusor can do
<Sync__> yeah I do understand
<Sync__> I did not really get the hype about him
<diginet> what all do you need to put together a vacuum system? roughing pump (easy/cheap), turbo and/or difussion, bell jar, vacuum plate, gaskets/o rings, what else?
<diginet> can you use aluminum or do you really need 304 stainless?
<Sync__> well it depends on what you want to do
<diginet> well, ideally, a DC sputtering set up
<diginet> but maybe vacuum evap
<diginet> oh, a feedthrough
<Sync__> well that's easy and cheap
<Sync__> yeah basically you'd want a forepump, high vac pump, recipient and some valves
<Sync__> the problem with sputtering is that you might be generating xrays
<Sync__> so you'd want stainless to contain them
<Sync__> but apart from that nothing wrong with a belljar or Al
<Sync__> just be sure that you get an alloy without high vapor pressure contents
<Sync__> something like AlMg3 does nicely
<diginet> alloy for what? the sputtering?
<Sync__> no for the recipient
<diginet> ohh, so I couldn't use a Si wafer?
<diginet> I thought Mg was a big no-no when it came to vacuum stuff?
<Sync__> recipient - vacuum vessle
<diginet> oh right right right, duh
<diginet> still though, you can use Mg?
<diginet> even in alloy?
<Sync__> at pressures relevant for dc sputtering or thermal evap, certainly
<Sync__> if you have fears, use AlSi alloys
<diginet> now, I know sputtering needs argon flow with a pressure of ~100 mTorr, how low do you need to get it before you purge with argon?
<Sync__> no good for much more than 10-6mbar but well
<Sync__> well
<Sync__> as low as you can get preferrably
<Sync__> but it is not that important at our scale
<Sync__> because you really have to get a feel for the process in your own system
<Sync__> you also want a throttle valve in the high vac line
<diginet> 10 millibar is like 7 torr though?
<Sync__> I'm just too lazy to write the ^
<Sync__> it's to the minus sixth power
<diginet> OHHH ahahaha
<diginet> okay I was really confused lol!!
<Sync__> I'm sorry, it's like 3 in the morning here
<diginet> oh you don't need to apologize haha
<diginet> you know, surprisingly, a turbo set up might actually not be that much more expnesive than a diffusion
<diginet> not to mention, the cost of oil, and the massive benefits of turbos
<Sync__> you really really want a turbo setup
<Sync__> diff is a no
<Sync__> just a no
<diginet> hahah
<diginet> contamination?
<Sync__> well, there is that but it is just a hassle to deal with
<diginet> yeah
<diginet> could a scroll pump be used for roughing?
<Sync__> and at some point you will burn the oil even if you use dc407 and such
<Sync__> just a hassle
<Sync__> yes sure if you do not mind paying 2k for a working scroll
<diginet> what about ones from cars?
<diginet> I see them for $100 and lower all the time
<Sync__> ~dc704 even
<Sync__> huh
<diginet> they're used in newer AC systems in cars
<diginet> because of the compactness and quietness
<Sync__> no
<Sync__> a scroll compressor will not work
<diginet> what's the difference?
<Sync__> the end seal and the lubrication scheme
<diginet> would that work?
<Sync__> just get any used two stage rotary
<diginet> do those have oil contamination problems?
<Sync__> that looks good
<Sync__> no
<Sync__> but a scroll will need regular maintainance
<Sync__> just get a cheap two stage
<diginet> oooooooooooh, okay no thank you
<diginet> so two stage rotary + turbo = no contamination I assume?
<diginet> turbos are awesome :)
<Sync__> I also find zero information on that kind of scroll
<Sync__> well
<Sync__> you get some oil backstreaming
<Sync__> but for us it is totally acceptable
<Sync__> you will probably see it on the RGA but really, for a home setup it is more than you'd need
<Sync__> I mean I *do* have a edwards ex10 scroll but yeah
<Sync__> gotta keep everything really clean to benefit from that
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<Sync__> and your times neccessary to spend with the equipment are significantly longer with diffs because they'll need to heat and cool
<Sync__> they have their places in applications there you need to remove large amounts of dirty gas
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