alanshaw changed the topic of #ipfs to: Heads Up: To talk, you need to register your nick! Announcements: go-ipfs 0.4.22 and js-ipfs 0.40 are out! Get them from dist.ipfs.io and npm respectively! | Also: #libp2p #ipfs-cluster #filecoin #ipfs-dev | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | Logs: https://view.matrix.org/room/!yhqiEdqNjyPbxtUjzm:matrix.org/ | Forums: https://discuss.ipfs.io | Code of
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<jessicaschilling>
The new IPFS Docs beta is live! Itβs fully redesigned with search, reorganized content, and more. Check it out, sign up as a beta tester, or contribute your own IPFS docs β¦ thereβs never been a better time π https://docs-beta.ipfs.io/
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<Imnotsoimpressed>
when will IPFS be stabe
<Imnotsoimpressed>
* when will IPFS be stable
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<ShadowJonathanDi>
someday
<Imnotsoimpressed>
ok
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<ShadowJonathanDi>
uhhh???
<ShadowJonathanDi>
ok i just found something out
<Imnotsoimpressed>
what
<ShadowJonathanDi>
1 sec i need to confirm it with other ways
<ShadowJonathanDi>
oh shit
<ShadowJonathanDi>
yeah okay
<ShadowJonathanDi>
if you **google** `ipfs://QmY7Yh4UquoXHLPFo2XbhXkhBvFoPwmQUSa92pxnxjQuPU`, that exact string, even in here:
<ShadowJonathanDi>
it'll automatically redirect to the public gateway
<Imnotsoimpressed>
hahahah ok
<ShadowJonathanDi>
no wait no
<ShadowJonathanDi>
its my plugin doing that
<ShadowJonathanDi>
:facepalm:
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<Imnotsoimpressed>
why would google redirect to IPFS gateway anyway
<ShadowJonathanDi>
yeah i thought it was an easteregg
<Imnotsoimpressed>
i thought they hated dapps
<ShadowJonathanDi>
Β―\_(γ)_/Β―
<ShadowJonathanDi>
yeah idk
<ShadowJonathanDi>
its late here, i should sleep
<Imnotsoimpressed>
ok
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<zenosama>
any action in here?
<Imnotsoimpressed>
i dont think so
<zenosama>
im new here that's why im askin
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<ShadowJonathanDi>
stuff happens here every other day or so
<ShadowJonathanDi>
in general, things are slow
<ShadowJonathanDi>
if things are happening, here isn't it
<zenosama>
I see, thanks
<zenosama>
but then why are you here tho
<ShadowJonathanDi>
this is the only discord server where stuff happens for ips
<ShadowJonathanDi>
* this is the only discord server where stuff happens for ipfs
<ShadowJonathanDi>
its not exactly a project that's speeding along
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<ShadowJonathanDi>
its getting there
<ShadowJonathanDi>
slowly and steadily
<zenosama>
however, you can already host a website with ipfs gateway, yeah?
<zenosama>
*protocol im sorry
<zenosama>
not a static website
<ShadowJonathanDi>
Uhhhh
<ShadowJonathanDi>
You can host a static site reliably, yes
<ShadowJonathanDi>
But to host a dynamic one, you need to make a client app
<ShadowJonathanDi>
Making a server app on IPFS, or libp2p, is currently not very easy to do
<Imnotsoimpressed>
^
<Imnotsoimpressed>
i can agree with this alot
<Imnotsoimpressed>
making a dymanic app is a pain in the ass
<ShadowJonathanDi>
honestly im eying ethereum smart contracts for this
<ShadowJonathanDi>
or at least
<ShadowJonathanDi>
similiar stuff
<Imnotsoimpressed>
ethereum smart contracts?
<ShadowJonathanDi>
the concept of "server" is kinda "dead" with the decentralized world
<ShadowJonathanDi>
instead of everything being bound to a server, the only thing you can do now is have everything bound to a client
<ShokuninDiscord[>
Well you say that
<Imnotsoimpressed>
the client is the server
<ShokuninDiscord[>
But I've done 150+ user interviews
<Imnotsoimpressed>
rigt?
<ShokuninDiscord[>
and they don't want decentralized stuff mostly
<ShadowJonathanDi>
nah its very abstract
<ShokuninDiscord[>
They want one click setup things
<ShokuninDiscord[>
You might have seen on the other channel today how even our Gitlab was a pain to setup
<ShadowJonathanDi>
yeah, the world is spoiled to the bone with client-server
<ShadowJonathanDi>
i know
<ShadowJonathanDi>
:pinkbored:
<Imnotsoimpressed>
centralized is less a pain in the ass to develop
<ShokuninDiscord[>
well that, and it works the way users expect
<ShokuninDiscord[>
no one's asked me for privacy or encryption, in my user interviews
<ShokuninDiscord[>
they want "i use fb or goog to login and click"
<ShadowJonathanDi>
:TopKek:
<ShadowJonathanDi>
again
<ShadowJonathanDi>
spoiled and veiled
<ShadowJonathanDi>
nobody knows and gives a shity
<ShadowJonathanDi>
* nobody knows and gives a shit
<ShadowJonathanDi>
they see magic screen which they can touch
<ShadowJonathanDi>
to talk to their parents
<ShokuninDiscord[>
Yeah but you need to build stuff people want
<ShokuninDiscord[>
otherwise it's just a cool hack
<ShadowJonathanDi>
idgaf about what people want, that has time and time again proven to not be what the world is actually ready for
<ShadowJonathanDi>
i think the world is ready for shift from centralized to decentralized
<Imnotsoimpressed>
we're slowly starting to move into the decentralized world
<ShadowJonathanDi>
exactly
<Imnotsoimpressed>
with bittorrent and shit
<ShadowJonathanDi>
its going to become even more crucial with the coming of china in the next decade
<ShadowJonathanDi>
personally i wanna keep everything personal into my home
<ShadowJonathanDi>
all my servers, my data, my IPFS nodes, everything
<Imnotsoimpressed>
kwyt inc.
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<ShadowJonathanDi>
again, i dont give a shit about what people "want", what people "want" is for things to stay the same
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<distributedjoseD>
Surely the aim is to provide the benefits of decentralised systems whilst allowing most people to use it without knowing its there
<ShadowJonathanDi>
max comfort for minimum price
<distributedjoseD>
how many people know how their car really works
<ShadowJonathanDi>
for the least effort
<ShadowJonathanDi>
> Surely the aim is to provide the benefits of decentralised systems whilst allowing most people to use it without knowing its there
<ShadowJonathanDi>
exactly
<ShadowJonathanDi>
but people are gonna resist the change
<ShadowJonathanDi>
the shifting
<ShadowJonathanDi>
what's pretty ironic is that *when* the world has shifted to decentralized
<ShadowJonathanDi>
communication will be even more stable
<ShadowJonathanDi>
since it suddenly isnt addicted to the backbone anymore
<Imnotsoimpressed>
windoows 10 uses p2p to serve updates
<ShadowJonathanDi>
distrubute it
<ShadowJonathanDi>
* distribute it
<ShadowJonathanDi>
locally
<ShokuninDiscord[>
See that's funny
odp is now known as TerryDavis
<ShadowJonathanDi>
or online, if you pick that option
<ShokuninDiscord[>
Because the second you count p2p and such in the dweb, then you come to the same realization our team did
<Imnotsoimpressed>
if we switch to decentralized without the user knowing, they wont complain
<ShokuninDiscord[>
the biggest p2p system in the world is smtp
<ShadowJonathanDi>
:TopKek:
<Imnotsoimpressed>
Shokunin biggest and oldest*
TerryDavis is now known as odp
<ShokuninDiscord[>
and in use
<ShadowJonathanDi>
is it really self-host friendly though if the only self-host library to use is postfix?
<ShadowJonathanDi>
postfix is fucking archaic
<ShadowJonathanDi>
currently its basically being centralized to google and microsoft, so really, imo its not p2p
<ShadowJonathanDi>
in the technical details, yes, its p2p, but in practice?
<distributedjoseD>
What was the realization Shokunin?
<ShadowJonathanDi>
not really, and it has luck to thank for that, nobody really stepped up to make SMTP mailing "easy"
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<ShadowJonathanDi>
it still looks and functions extremely like a proprietary standard
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<ShadowJonathanDi>
im sorry if im a tad cynical/pessimistic, i've seen the majority of this time and time again, so i at least wanna put my energy into something while knowing that i contributed to something useful
<ShadowJonathanDi>
what the *users* want is something extremely intuitive and useful that they'll never wanna look back, essentially
<ShadowJonathanDi>
but the model its built on is not sustainable, its bound to fall apart sooner or later
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<ShadowJonathanDi>
in the next century, client-server *really* isnt going to be something you wanna rely on a 100%, stuff now needs to become "global-locally", stuff needs to be in the "neighborhood", or else client-server will be extremely unuseful when you're on mars
<ShadowJonathanDi>
for which the fastest ping you can possibly get is 20 minutes
<ShadowJonathanDi>
good luck getting an tcp SYN-ACK connection with that
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<ShadowJonathanDi>
* in the next century, client-server *really* isnt going to be something you wanna rely on a 100%, stuff now needs to become "global-locally", stuff needs to be in the "neighborhood", or else client-server will be extremely unuseful when you're on the moon, or on mars
<ZipperSKDiscord[>
I think that in 10 years we don't have to worry to ping mars. The bigger threat will be definitely censure (China etc.)
<ShokuninDiscord[>
distributedjose people conflate a lot of crypto concepts with dweb. Dweb is anything non centralized. This means email is the largest dweb protocol, followed by bittorrent
<ZipperSKDiscord[>
yeah, except that 80% emails is Gmail π
<ShokuninDiscord[>
So rather than aiming for bleeding edge tech non stop, if your goal is to be a dweb dev, consider those protocols
<ShokuninDiscord[>
50% actually
<ShadowJonathanDi>
honestly i will never forgive bitcoin for raping the term "blockchain"
<ShadowJonathanDi>
:rubymad:
<ShokuninDiscord[>
ZipperSK that's actually why we picked email (and Gmail) for Hi Elle!
<ShokuninDiscord[>
precisely because it's the right intersection of dweb and being used by billions
<ShadowJonathanDi>
* honestly i will never forgive bitcoin for warping the term "blockchain"
<ZipperSKDiscord[>
yeah, I know, but I dont think that we can talk about emails being decentralized network if half of it is on google's servers
<ShadowJonathanDi>
:conniehmm:
<ShadowJonathanDi>
wait
<ShadowJonathanDi>
what is hi-elle supposed to be?
<ShadowJonathanDi>
an email client or an email server/
<ShadowJonathanDi>
* an email client or an email server?
<ShokuninDiscord[>
email client
<ShokuninDiscord[>
for now π
<ShadowJonathanDi>
aw
<ShadowJonathanDi>
yeah i was hoping for an email server built on top of libp2p
<ShadowJonathanDi>
that would actually be dope
<ShadowJonathanDi>
* yeah i was hoping for an email server built on top of libp2p, which would still work with clearnet emails
<ShokuninDiscord[>
Yeah, please convince the people at textile / protocol labs / arweave to make one and I'll make a kick ass app on top of it
<ShokuninDiscord[>
π
<ShokuninDiscord[>
I want to support Protonmail asap
<ZipperSKDiscord[>
I think you should support all custom servers and communicate with them over pop3 or imap... Which is hard from web browser
<ShadowJonathanDi>
nah, for crossover into clearnet you probably need like
<ShadowJonathanDi>
2 things
<ShokuninDiscord[>
Yeah I wanna support smtp / imap / pop3 etc
<ShadowJonathanDi>
1: the email protocol between libp2p clients to be store-and-forward, for the most part
<ShadowJonathanDi>
2: the crossover into clearnet be a subdomain wilcard (like `Qm...dHIj.ipfs.io`), which then acts as a "postal service", and ships mails from and to the libp2p networks
<ShokuninDiscord[>
The reality of all that is we can't start with that tech. So we start with Gmail
<ShadowJonathanDi>
...yeah nah i havent thought about it
<ShadowJonathanDi>
discard those
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<zenosama>
nice discussion guys, love readin it
<ShadowJonathanDi>
but still though, reliable mail between libp2p nodes can actually be a gamechanger
<zenosama>
u real tech savvy dudes, couldn't say that about me, at least yet haha
<zenosama>
respect
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<ShadowJonathanDi>
np m8
<ShadowJonathanDi>
im just rambling off of the top of my head at 10:33 PM
<ShadowJonathanDi>
i should sleep
<ShadowJonathanDi>
:ametired:
<ZipperSKDiscord[>
you are in same timezeno as me btw π
<ShokuninDiscord[>
I'd love to have that tech, but the reality is if we wanna succeed we start with building a client
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<ShokuninDiscord[>
if people like the client, we'll do difficult server shit later. Hopefully with ipfs π
<zenosama>
so where could one proceed trying to launch a dynamic web on ipfs protocol
<ShadowJonathanDi>
textile?
<ShadowJonathanDi>
havent really looked at it, but they seem to be the ones who have an idea what they're doing with it
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<ShadowJonathanDi>
(for context, ive mostly been working on py-libp2p, engrossing myself with the bottom of the pyramid of this all, so i have no clue about end-user applications)
<zenosama>
looking into it right now ty
<ShadowJonathanDi>
* (for context, ive mostly been working on py-libp2p, engrossing myself with the bottom of the pyramid of this all, so i have no clue about end-user or development applications)