<headius>
should work fine if you have all appropriate jars required
<pawnbox>
Aha
<pawnbox>
thanks headius
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<enebo>
bascule: nirvdrum: It is pretty telling who is giving opinions based on experience and with zero-knowledge in that reddit. It is scary how much low-info folks can try and push their opinion
<enebo>
I wish we had a better startup story
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<enebo>
we do have some more experiments to work through which should help[
<enebo>
but I think that is our biggest sore spot by a mile now
<bascule>
enebo: :(
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<nirvdrum>
enebo: You can use Mogotest. But it's no longer in business...
<nirvdrum>
enebo: I guess I can blame that on JRuby now :-)
<enebo>
hahah
<enebo>
yeah I am not concerned about this. I realized a couple of years ago if you ask how many people just use JRuby you do not get a lot of hands
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<enebo>
If you ask if they use JRuby at all you get quite a few hands
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<enebo>
So we fill the gaps in MRI and presumably this also means increased famiararity
<enebo>
If we can increase startup enough we might not just be the place to go to access Java or have higher perf/threads
<nirvdrum>
You're still going to face knee-jerk reactions from people that ran Java 1.2 for one course back in 2000 and then have blogged about how terrible it was for the past 15 years.
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<enebo>
nirvdrum: or the memory hog comment on reddit
<enebo>
nirvdrum: what can you do about that lack of understanding
<nirvdrum>
I wanted to reply, but didn't want to seem combative.
<enebo>
nirvdrum: you cannot educate the world
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<nirvdrum>
JRuby has a higher base memory footprint, sure. But it's incrementally much better.
<enebo>
nirvdrum: but if you starve the JVM process we still do not perform poorly
<enebo>
nirvdrum: but there is no reason anyone should be worrying about it
<nirvdrum>
When I used MRI, I had to fork Rails for every request and it wasn't CoW, so I was taking another 120MB for each request.
<enebo>
nirvdrum: unless they are on S3Small
<enebo>
nirvdrum: but even then they likely have 20 MRI listeners (and are complaining about JRuby memory usage)
<nirvdrum>
Most of the EC2 instances started at 1.7 GB. Using 120 MB / request doesn't let you handle that many requests.
<nirvdrum>
I should probably spend some time seeing how well CoW works now.
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<enebo>
nirvdrum: the payback for the MT effort on a Rails app pays for itself quickly but it is not free to make your app MT
<enebo>
JRuby 9.0.2 will be out most likely tomorrow (we forgot to release joni)
<enebo>
maven takes a long tie to fully sync
<nirvdrum>
Okay. I'll let Truffle folks know not to push to master.
<enebo>
nirvdrum: at some point you guys will want to coordinate for showcasing what has improved
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<enebo>
nirvdrum: but I am guessing that might not be until after rubygems and bundler are 100% working
<nirvdrum>
You mean updating the little blurb in the release notes?
<enebo>
nirvdrum: yeah a few extra bullet points and what has change on truffle
<enebo>
nirvdrum: hey even reddit is talking about Ruby Truffle now!
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<nirvdrum>
Heh.
<nirvdrum>
Well, we can handle YAML now. That was a big step necessary for handling gemspecs.
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<oblutak>
any chance #3343 could be consider for 9.0.2.0. headius did a 'quick' fix for 1.7 and not sure why it is not in 9k. It is a blocker for me to use 9k since I'm locked on Solaris...
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<enebo>
oblutak: headius: is IO so different that this same fix is difficult?
<enebo>
oblutak: IO in 9k is much different than in 1.7.x so this may or may not be simple
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<headius>
oblutak: oh, I'll have a look
<oblutak>
enebo: no problem. Thought I was better to ask before than after 9.0.2.0 shipped.... in case a similar 'simple fix' could be used.
<enebo>
oblutak: it is good to know about stuff like this
<enebo>
oblutak: we always want to make people feel good about a release
<enebo>
:)
<enebo>
oblutak: in glancing at this I do not see our non-jnr-posix fall back code in here at all
<enebo>
oblutak: but maybe we can just stuff it back ni for solaris only as a temp fix…don’t know headius will have a better opinion on this one
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<enebo>
oblutak: long term I think we should fix jnr-posix for solatis loaded to have this fall back logic but we really don’t want to add that to jnr-posix today
<oblutak>
and the whole ruby team does a great job at that! I've become more and more 'dependant' on ruby/jruby for all my tool needs and really enjoying the experience THANKS!
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<oblutak>
last comment should have said 'the whole jruby team does an AWSOME job. thanks!'
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<enebo>
oblutak: :)
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<headius>
oblutak: what is uname -a for you
<headius>
the check for solaris *is* in 9k but it doesn't seem to be firing for you correctly
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<oblutak>
headius: uname -a output is SunOS ltetools 5.10 Generic_144489-12 i86pc i386 i86pc
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<oblutak>
headius: added some comments to lira #3343
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<enebo>
yay System.console().printf("%s", buffer.asJavaString()); is crashing with NPE
<enebo>
I swear it was not doing this recently
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<tjohnson>
is there a good resource detailing how to extent ruby -> java type coercion?
<enebo>
mkristian_: is lib/ruby/maven_home needed by jruby to run?
<enebo>
mkristian_: windows installer is packaging it up and it makes the dist large
<tjohnson>
s/extent/extend/
<mkristian_>
that is the place where ruby-maven lives now.
<enebo>
mkristian_: can I exclude it from windows installer?
<mkristian_>
than you need to exclude the respective gem specs from specifications/default as well
<mkristian_>
otherwise things are only half installed - kind of
<mkristian_>
I wanted to remove all this maven stuff with the next jar-dependencies release. did not find time so far
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<enebo>
mkristian_: I did not notice until now either :)
<enebo>
mkristian_: so there is a plan to reduce this back down later
<mkristian_>
but it is nothing too new. yes, just remove the both the maven gems. they get installed on demand by the jar-dependencies gem. which does it now for some time
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<enebo>
mkristian_: it is only new to me because I did not see us go from 27M on 1.7 (which includes 1.8, 1.9, and 2.0 stdlib) to 9k which only has 2.2 at 42M
<enebo>
mkristian_: I did not see us == I did not notice until now :)
<mkristian_>
no this sounds wrong. even jruby-1.7 has those files
<enebo>
mkristian_: although I realize part of this might also be truffle
<enebo>
mkristian_: since 1.7 does not include that either
<mkristian_>
maven is around 9M as far I remember
<enebo>
mkristian_: 11.4M now
<mkristian_>
truffle was around 8M , does not add up.
<enebo>
I think truffle is 2.6M
<enebo>
for the jar
<enebo>
mkristian_: but I am look back to 1.7.21 sizes on windows installer since it is the last copy I have on my machine
<mkristian_>
my truffle jar is 10M
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<enebo>
heh
<enebo>
ok maybe I don’t understand mingw32 shell output
<enebo>
it implies 10M bytes in long output but must be displaying as 5M in size
<enebo>
which does not make sense to me
<enebo>
mkristian_: so I am looking at MacOS to compare 1.7 and 9k sizes but I see different output in windows
<enebo>
mkristian_: hahah…I think mingw is messed up
<mkristian_>
the jruby-dist-bin.tar.gz is 36M when I last built it. this tallies with jruby-1.7 size + truffle (for me)
<enebo>
mkristian_: the long listing show the same number of bytes but the -s output is just wrong
<enebo>
74512 jruby-bin-9.0.2.0.tar.gz
<enebo>
so now it is a little bit bigger
<enebo>
37M
<enebo>
but 89872 jruby_windows_x64_9_0_2_0.exe
<enebo>
mkristian_: anyways you say eventually jar-dependencies will not have this 10M extra space on hand?
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<enebo>
mkristian_: It is not a huge problem but before this maven support was added I think we used to have like 10M windows dists (granted nothing ever gets smaller)
<mkristian_>
yes, actually I could release it now and then . . it is too much last minute changing of the build
<enebo>
mkristian_: yeah let’s look at it for 9.0.3
<enebo>
mkristian_: like I say it is not a big problem but it is always nice to try and keep the sizes smaller
<enebo>
mkristian_: so we will have a smaller dist next release
<mkristian_>
yes, definitely
<enebo>
mkristian_: also no one has complained about the size so that is good :)
<headius>
oblutak: checking
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<oblutak>
headius: will be offline for a few hours. Maybe put a comment in Jira if there is any information I could provide that would help you. Thanks for having a look at this issue.
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<headius>
oblutak: no problem
<headius>
got a couple things on my plate but will get through them
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<xardion>
So is there no way to gracefully clean up resources in a thread in jRuby when the main process exits?
<headius>
well, you could have an at_exit that cleans them up
<headius>
what sort of resources?
<xardion>
there's some thread local variables that need to be explicitly closed
<xardion>
I tried using a begin/ensure block in the thread, but that doesn't appear to work
<xardion>
at least, not if the JVM gets a term signal
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<headius>
xardion: no, neither JRuby nor MRI sends any shutdown signals to threads
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<headius>
you could try to do that yourself, I suppose.... at_exit { iterate over Thread.list and kill them }
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<xardion>
That's what I tried to do at first, but it seems like it's just ignoring my ensure blocks when I do that
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<headius>
it shouldn't
<headius>
perhaps at_exit exits before they get a chance to respond
<headius>
even kill is not reliable because it can only kill threads running Ruby code
<headius>
if they're blocked on a Java call or something they won't get the kill until they return
<xardion>
yeah, and that's probably what's happening in this case
<xardion>
they're timing out on a JDBC connect call
<headius>
ahh yes
<headius>
you can get at the threadlocals from outside the thread, oddly enough
<headius>
so if you know what the resources are you could just grab and close them
<xardion>
yeah, I could do that, seems gross though :P
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<headius>
it does! :-)
<headius>
maybe less gross than killing them though
<xardion>
in the case of the timeout, it's kinda irrelevant because that particular resource hasn't been opened yet
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