<naobsd>
some develpers have rk3288 board from rockchip
<naobsd>
some rockchip person submit patches to linux developers' maillist
<naobsd>
but here is not the place for them
<naobsd>
I guess some of them don't know about existing(?) community
<naobsd>
this is my personal idea (here is no community, no developer, no rule etc etc), probably someone will blame me :)
<libv>
naobsd: i thought that mmind00_ did know about these things
<libv>
anyway, back to the sunxi grindstone.
<naobsd>
I'm sure mmind00(and astralix) knows
<naobsd>
libv: thank you, I really appreciate your comment
<naobsd>
[09:18] <naobsd> but here is not the place for them <- maybe: here *was* not ...
<naobsd>
I cannot count but it seems recently some developers joined here
<akaizen>
yep
<akaizen>
is the wiki and ml not maintained / active?
<naobsd>
I'm not owner/maintainer about them, I may be wrong
<naobsd>
it may not be dead if someone says "it's not dead!"
<libv>
akaizen: still, there's the github project, the wiki and the existing ml
<akaizen>
Hmm.. well rk3288 is going to be pretty good. so its not dead
<naobsd>
...within a month? a year?
<akaizen>
And my rk3188 sticks are pretty stable with 4.4
<libv>
you do not just create a mailinglist and then state "hello, now you have to work on this completely new project"
<akaizen>
and now have hw gpu and vpu
<naobsd>
I'm try to maintain github
<akaizen>
... so what shall we do?
<libv>
maybe someone else should go and create a gitorious project?
<akaizen>
why isnt the mailing list on linux-rockchipinfo?
<naobsd>
but difficult to say github is active. hipboi and me sometimes push for changes for Radxa Rock
<libv>
akaizen: because mailinglists need spamfilters
<libv>
which means labour
<akaizen>
gah, spamassassin is not that hard to install
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<libv>
akaizen: well, get in touch with whoever set up lr.i
<libv>
we could use another ml
<libv>
one with actual buy-in would be a change :p
<naobsd>
I'm not talking about whole rockchip thing
<naobsd>
rockchip is not dead of course ;)
<Bludot>
anyone know how to compile kernels properly?
<naobsd>
if someone want github/linux-rockchip, I can invite
<naobsd>
want to join
<naobsd>
probably it's ok that "someone" organize it as like as linux-sunxi
<libv>
one likely candidate has been very outspoken about not wanting to do everything for every soc family from scratch every time.
<libv>
which is why Wizzup kindly did the legwork to get linux-exynos rolling
<akaizen>
so make a linux-soc ?
<akaizen>
and have sub wikis?
<akaizen>
or like elinux.org?
<libv>
akaizen: go check the changes on linux-sunxi
<libv>
akaizen: and then tell me that this was a brainfart.
<libv>
akaizen: and no, i will stick to sunxi.
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<libv>
whatever was left of this community just did cell multiplication
<libv>
and now the "my public ml is not being monitored by google" shit throwing can start :p
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<libv>
and besides, that's a logical division, only very few resources are shared there
<libv>
and that's mostly just things like the mali drivers.
<naobsd>
well, sorry
<libv>
sorry, whatfor?
<libv>
anyway, linux-sunxi, linux-exynos, linux-rockchip, that's how it is
<libv>
there's only limited synergy between them anyway
<naobsd>
[09:36] <naobsd> if someone want github/linux-rockchip, I can invite <- sorry, I wanted to invite people who can do things like as linux-sunxi
<libv>
but what little action there is, no-one should feel as if he alone should go and pull stunts like this without getting buy-in of the few who are around, or the older guard
<libv>
naobsd: they're at linux-sunxi :p
<libv>
and busy
<naobsd>
libv: sure :)
<libv>
well, should be busy, in my case at this very moment
<naobsd>
there is only "Owners" group in github/linux-rockchip
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<naobsd>
I invited some people into it
<libv>
naobsd: at this point, it is way more important to talk to the owners of lr.i
<naobsd>
no one had objection(no interest?) about github organization
<libv>
naobsd: i didn't say that that was without merrit
<akaizen>
I would really like to make this community strong like linux-sunxi
<naobsd>
but it should be orginized well if it's really central(?) place for developers community
<libv>
akaizen: start with the wiki
<akaizen>
sure, it hasnt been updated in months
<akaizen>
and a lot of info seems to be on the radxa wiki
<libv>
don't just randomly throw stuff in there either
<akaizen>
im also curious about linux-rockchip.info vs linux-rockchip.org
<libv>
actually write down aht you use
<libv>
akaizen: cost?
<akaizen>
libv: who do you wrote the original schema for all the linux-sunxi board pages?
<libv>
akaizen: that doesn't parse
<akaizen>
libv: err not so much schema but format of the pages :)
<libv>
anyway, i ended up writing most of the sunxi wiki because i am a structured thinker (which seems quite a rare thing) and i have learned to document as i go
<akaizen>
libv: haha, its the only way to remember things
<libv>
the current structure of the wiki is the only structure that makes sense
<libv>
akaizen: indeed
<akaizen>
So!
<libv>
also know that sunxi wiki was moulded over the course of many many many months
<naobsd>
hipboi has linux-rockchip.org, olimex has linux-rockchip.info
<akaizen>
Using linux-rockchip google group seems to be working pretty well
<akaizen>
err linux-sunxi
<akaizen>
so maybe we should use that as well?
<libv>
naobsd: rockchip.org points to .info
<libv>
and both hipboi and tsvetan are good guys.
<akaizen>
libv: domains cost around $10
<libv>
akaizen: domains are a hassle
<akaizen>
yes - we should reduce to one or two places to get info
<libv>
infrastructure to set up and maintain
<akaizen>
ml: google-groups, central-wiki
<libv>
go to linux-rockchip.org
<libv>
and you end up at linux-rockchip.info
<akaizen>
libv: I'm pretty good at infrastructure
<libv>
so it is central.
<akaizen>
ok
<akaizen>
so you dont want to change anything but you want things to get better?
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<libv>
akaizen: i want this project to actually go somewhere, without me doing all the legwork again, and without people selfishly creating their own little feudal states in ever corner
<libv>
akaizen: it seems like most of the basics are in place
<naobsd>
mmind: and I have no idea why usb works without usbphy thing too ;)
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<naobsd>
mmind00: ping
<mmind00>
libv: the new list is mainly not meant for "help I can't get the kernel to compile" requests but instead to have place where all rockchip-specific patches land (so you don't have to search linux-arm-kernel for them, but lakml should still be in the list of recipients)
<mmind00>
akaizen: as stated above, ojn and me asked the infradead.org maintainers to create one where the mainline patches can aggregate, so that for example patchtrack.kernel.org can track them ... I did know about linux-rockchip.info (which seems slightly dead) but not about any other lists/groups/whatever
<mmind00>
[and of course I also do not really care about all the 3.0 hackery going on]
<naobsd>
existing community was not organized, it was difficult to think "there is a place to make communication"
<naobsd>
well
<naobsd>
existing community was not organized, it was difficult to think "there is a place to communicate before starting something"
<naobsd>
I know some random people did/doing some random things, sometimes they visit here and talked about it
<naobsd>
but here/google group/wiki/etc was not central place of linux-rockchip community(and personally I don't think there was a community)
<naobsd>
many people include me did/does nothing
<naobsd>
if there was a community and someone should care about community,
<naobsd>
someone who should be blamed is not mmind00, it's "many people around here" ;)
<naobsd>
and I don't think someone need to be blamed
<mmind00>
there is a request pending to include the list
<naobsd>
I like that interface
<naobsd>
mmind00: do you have some time to see my patches on github? I can send patches to maillist, but I guess some of my changes are based on your patches only in your workbench
<mmind00>
naobsd: yep I'm looking at them currently
<naobsd>
mmind00: thanks!
<naobsd>
I have to clear the table now!
<naobsd>
there are too many boards on dinner table ;)
<mmind00>
naobsd: I guess you know them already, but just to re-mention them: scripts/checkpatch.pl and scripts/get_maintainer.pl :-)
<naobsd>
mmind00: I didn't know later, I searched by hand :)
<naobsd>
mmind00: I'm not linux developer, I sent first patch yesterday :)
<naobsd>
mmind00: about clk thing, I see, then that kind of information will be described in dts
<mmind00>
naobsd: for "not being a linux developer" the patches did look quite good :-)
<rperier>
mmind00: for now, I based my branch on 3.17-rc1. I have a "for-next" branch which matches upstream and a devel branches containing my work and some cherry-picked commits
<rperier>
for-next matches upstream and contains accepted and reviewed commits
<mmind00>
rperier: it's always what fits your style best :-)
<rperier>
exactly
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<mmind00>
naobsd: I don't think they will need this .... I'm even not sure if it is correct anyway
<naobsd>
mmind00: I see
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<naobsd>
I'll send patches (re)based on v3.18-next/dts branch anyway
<mmind00>
naobsd: also, when you export the patches use "git format-patch -m", which strips down the differences caused by the renaming operation
<naobsd>
mmind00: I see, I didn't know that option
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<karlp>
akaizen_: "< akaizen> It's far easier to get linux running on rk than on allwinner" that's good to hear, because my experience on rk so far and some sunxi reading has lead me to think the other way! :)
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<karlp>
naobsd: should defconfig's really include a bunch of modules like all the usb serial chips? seems unnecessary?
<naobsd>
karlp: I have no idea about Linux standard way
<naobsd>
all I know is many people don't know how to build modules even if there are many guides on the net ;p
<naobsd>
oh I should enable USB wifi drivers, I have some dongles
* karlp
shrugs
<karlp>
I would think that if you're at the point where you're running "make radxa_rock_defconfig" you're competent enough to choose modules you may want
<karlp>
I would personally at least expect the defconfig to have the bare minimum for the hardware available
<karlp>
also, wow, firey words overnight!
<viric>
I expect defconfig to have a common config, not bare mininum
<karlp>
fair enough, not something I've got any real experience with in kernel land, only how it's used in openwrt.
<karlp>
still, enabling "m" for every single usb serial chip, but nothing else is probably not "common" either :)
<viric>
ah, about non-platform devices... I don't know.
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<karlp>
yeah, that's what I was thinking about
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<naobsd>
I don't want to build this on my build machine!
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<libv>
mmind00: hrm, ok
<libv>
mmind00: still, you should start throwing some info into this wiki on how to use the mainline code you are working on
<libv>
mmind00: otherwise you will never get any users
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<ojn>
Mmind00: can't read all the scroll back and discussion on the channel from my phone, but yeah, the infradead list is only for upstream work as far as I am concerned. Sharing patches for the vendor kernel can be done on the other existing lists if needed.
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<ojn>
libv: that's crazy talk. It's infinitely better that mmind00 spends the time he has on working on upstream. If someone else wants to maintain a wiki then they're of course free to do so. But given the amount of code that is currently flying around, I don't expect any of the upstream people to have much time to look after it.
<ojn>
once things slows down a bit and things fall into place, then sure. but right now there's enough to do just getting code in.
<ojn>
(and keeping up with rockchip's contributions)
<mmind00>
also I'm personally very happy with the number of current users, who even provide crucial patches like rperier working on the emac, Max providing the i2c driver and Beniamino the pwm + act8846 support
<mmind00>
everybody needing a howto to build a kernel also wouldn't be very happy with what is currently in mainline ;-)
<rperier>
yeah that's cool to have an active community and to see recent nice improvements in mainline :)
<rperier>
I'm also impressed by the number of changes in the dts... it was nothing to do with the one I did read few weeks ago :D
<rperier>
nice work ;)
<rperier>
s/was/has/
<libv>
ojn: i don't buy that
<libv>
but suit yourself, i discounted this community quite a while ago, and have not seen anything that has convinced me otherwise in the last 24h
<ojn>
libv: then why are you stirring up shit over this? Let people scratch their own itch and get work done instead of interfering.
<libv>
sure
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<karlp>
nah, more fun to rant a bit here .)
<karlp>
I don't think anyone's disagreeing that the rockchip linux community is vastly smaller and less organized than sunxi.
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<karlp>
I'll be happy to do some documentation work, when I have anything work documenting, but there's such a pile of diverse forks and mountains of android 3.0.8+ work that I don't know what I can write at this point, nor which of those are active. this is about the most active portion of community I've found, and that's good
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<karlp>
don't suppose anyone knows how to _create_ a page in that wiki? I can't add a link to the hardware list because the list is generated from the pages..
<akaizen_>
mmind00: Thanks for explaining, that makes a lot of sense. Could you also cross post to linux-rockchip google-group?
<akaizen_>
karlp: For me easier meant a really quick feedback loop for compiling a new kernel, flashing it and testing it
<akaizen_>
About 7 min: kernel build (~5m) + flash kernel partition (~1m) + boot time (~1m)
<karlp>
akaizen_: isn't there only like 4 threads on the google group? what's the point?
<karlp>
akaizen_: no experience on sunxi there honestly :) but yeah, it's relatively fast.
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<akaizen_>
karlp: well imagine im new to this - i'd like to see that theres others interested as well
<akaizen_>
when i see a bunch of commits then I know people are working on this too and im more likely to join in
<akaizen_>
vs just see 4 threads and then you leave
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<naobsd>
who did "the big talk"?
<naobsd>
there were(are) still few people(already working linux kernel developers are not counted) on here
<naobsd>
"make community and its output big!" is too difficult request to answer within 24h
<karlp>
akaizen_: not sure I follow what you mean
<karlp>
actually, rubber ducky
<karlp>
now that I've written that, I think I do get what you mean :)
<karlp>
so yeah, post to anywhere :)
<akaizen_>
karlp: well its like your said
<akaizen_>
paraphrasing: why post there since theres only 4 threads
<karlp>
yeah, I got it afterwards, but had to write down my confusion first, sorry.
<akaizen_>
:)
<karlp>
hard to choose what to post/where to post though, the android noise is loud and distracting and all over the place :|
<karlp>
naobsd: yeah, a little confused why we were expected to get all crazy wild community within 8-12 hours.