Topic for #milkymist is now Radical Tech Coalition :: Milkymist One, Migen, Milkymist SoC & Flickernoise :: Logs: http://en.qi-hardware.com/mmlogs
<wpwrak> only very roughly. as in overcurrent / not overcurrent
<wpwrak> you'd have to add current sensors and an ADC if you really need to know with better granularity
<wolfspraul> can or should we add circuitry to make this more precise?
<wpwrak> seems an unusual feature
<wolfspraul> yes. ok then, just came to my mind...
<wpwrak> the playful control freak in me likes it, of course :)
<wolfspraul> nah, I can live without
<wolfspraul> I don't understand the exact use case right now, besides having some fancy current monitor displaying how much each USB socket consumes...
<wpwrak> you could dim the USB leds accordingly ... ;-)
<wolfspraul> indeed - the more power a usb socket draws, the brighter the light :-)
<wpwrak> maybe make them flicker when the current if very high, to suggest power is at the point of failing ;-)
<wolfspraul> but no, I don't need that still
<wolfspraul> and I assume adding this would be quite a complication
<wpwrak> you'd need a bunch of sensor chips with resistors, plus some sort of adc (or mcu) to gather the data
<wolfspraul> I just ran into it because I have a bunch of USB devices and hubs on one machine, and I lost overview over who needs how much power
<wolfspraul> do I need to power the hub? or not?
<wolfspraul> how much does the wifi dongle need? the speaker? the remote keyboard?
<wolfspraul> and so on
<wpwrak> your multimeter is your friend :)
<wolfspraul> sounds like we surely don't want that
<wolfspraul> but I'm basically guessing around, moving usb from hub to host machine, here there
<wolfspraul> guessing who might need how much...
<wolfspraul> for example usb nand storage - probably rather little?
<wpwrak> you could make a little passive pcb with usb a upstream, usb a downstream, interrupted VBUS, and two connectors to put a multimeter in the middle
<wpwrak> then you could measure what exactly is going on
<wolfspraul> ok then the guessing is easier :-)
<wolfspraul> but surely such a small usb current measuring pcb sounds fun
<wolfspraul> I could take a short extension cable and open some of the wires
<wpwrak> yes, that works too. a bit finicky, though
<wpwrak> while you're at it, you probably also want to bring out GND. that way, you can replace the PC with a lab power supply
<wpwrak> or do things like supplying power from the lab power supply but still doing the signaling with the PC
<wolfspraul> no no :-)
<wolfspraul> I know when to stop
<wolfspraul> I was *wondering* about power when I had a little trouble arranging a pile of USB devices
<wolfspraul> but simple trial and error solved the problem already
<wolfspraul> enlightenment doesn't always win
<wolfspraul> btw, a small thing maybe for some, but I had to chew on this for a while
<wpwrak> such a setup was rather useful for certain experiments with gta02 and hxd8 ;-)
<wolfspraul> I feel very confident now talking about Milkymist as a "SoC" project, SoC being the category
<wolfspraul> before I was oscillating between CPU and SoC helplessly
<wolfspraul> CPU is the more generally known term, but it's misleading and the main point of Milkymist doesn't come across
<wolfspraul> so it's like Linux is a kernel, Apache a web server, Milkymist a SoC - that kind of analogy
<wolfspraul> of course sebastien was talking about "leading free SoC" all along, nothing new for him...
<wpwrak> yes, soc is accurate. sounds a tad smallish. but i guess we can't have everything
<wolfspraul> smallish?
<wpwrak> well, most people would associate "SoC" with relatively small devices
<wpwrak> smartphones, pads, this kind of thing. already a laptop has "CPU" and "peripherals"
<wpwrak> of course, that's gradually changing, too
<wolfspraul> no I think it's SoC everywhere now, even Intel is being talked about making "SoCs" now
<wolfspraul> anyway I feel confident about this now, only SoC from me now
<wpwrak> ok. so we're like the big guys then :)
<wolfspraul> (and I just added Milkymist to the "List of SoC suppliers" in Wikipedia :-))
<wpwrak> phew .. :)
<wolfspraul> we're between Maxim and MIPS
<wpwrak> btw, i think you missed this one in the backlog:
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: the weird little corner of the jtag board does actually have a use: it helps you to align the board with the connectors. otherwise, you would have to "feel" for correct alignment. sort of fumblish.
<wolfspraul> saw it
<wolfspraul> good point :-)
<wpwrak> (just noticed that when re-seating the jtag board i had plucked out to look at the memory card connector when you asked about ubb)
<GitHub88> [flickernoise] wpwrak pushed 1 new commit to direct-midi: http://git.io/Mby8Gw
<GitHub88> [flickernoise/direct-midi] MIDI documentation (still WIP, on-going) - Werner Almesberger
<wpwrak> writing documentation helps to understand those use cases ;-)
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<kristianpaul> xiangfu: hello
<kristianpaul> (replying to yday Hi ;-))
<xiangfu> kristianpaul, Hi. good morning
<kristianpaul> hey :)
<xiangfu> want let you know I finish a simple payload.py for your m1 using mining core
<kristianpaul> oh great
<xiangfu> using linux command. :)
<kristianpaul> let me try that last one
<xiangfu> if it not working. try payload.py. I tried the linux commands. somtimes it not working. don't know why. but payload.py always working.
<kristianpaul> no work.. trying the python script..
<xiangfu> it should reply in 1 second
<kristianpaul> erghh no, damn i'll re-sinthesize this and if i can re-enforce timings..
* kristianpaul my fault
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<kristianpaul> oh wait, xiangfu https://gist.github.com/1822454
<kristianpaul> but i cant reproduce...
<qi-bot> The Firmware build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-20120214-0111/
<xiangfu> yes. you got correct result.
<kristianpaul> but just onces...
<xiangfu> you mean only work once?
<kristianpaul> damn
<kristianpaul> yeap..
<kristianpaul> oh GOD
<kristianpaul> it took AGES
<kristianpaul> wait a second i can reproduce it again now with time ;)
<kristianpaul> damn i tought was timing on my side but this seems to be slow fpgaminer on my side ;)
<kristianpaul> ok may be i can push to a repo now ;)
<kristianpaul> just in case xiangfu what other hash i can try :) ?
<kristianpaul> hmm now i took longer..
<kristianpaul> should i reset the fpga...
<kristianpaul> xiangfu: https://gist.github.com/1822498
<kristianpaul> damn dont know what it works and dont ...
* kristianpaul dont trust too much the uart serializer..
<kristianpaul> there is no reset logic..
<kristianpaul> damn i needs a mcu..
<kristianpaul> may be mico8 :)
<xiangfu> any test needs time to find out:)
<xiangfu> 38.164s
<kristianpaul> lol ;)
<kristianpaul> is too slow..
<kristianpaul> oh well.
<xiangfu> as least it working :)
<wpwrak> what dollar equivalent does it produce in those 38 seconds ?
<xiangfu> :D
* kristianpaul will not answer that
<xiangfu> wpwrak, oh. about the projector. I make is wrong. it's not 4mX5m. it about 2.6Mx3M. my home wall is not that big. sorry
<wpwrak> still pretty large. and the image looks good ? bright and with contrast ?
<xiangfu> wpwrak, I can just say it fine. have to with 100% dark.
<wpwrak> does it let you adjust the angle ? or do you have to move the projector to change the size ?
<xiangfu> have to move the projector to changed the size.
<xiangfu> no adjust on angle.
<wpwrak> mmh, inconvenient
<cladamwa> (audio lineout plugin detection) added R233 100K @ J2.3; http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/adam/m1/tmp/m1r4/Audio_20120208.pdf
<cladamwa> wpwrak, i added R233 100K for detecting LINEout plug-in detection. you could check and view, later we ask joreg. ;-)
<cladamwa> for audio line-in, current no idea. still thinking... ;-D
<wpwrak> hmm, might work
<wpwrak> don't forget to tell joerg there are no clamping diodes in the fpga :)
<wpwrak> actually, there are, towards gnd. but it should be disconnected then anyway. yeah, might work
<wpwrak> not sure if lineout_det needs tvs, though
<cladamwa> joerg suggested me that we can also add tvs on lineout_det in #qi-hardware. let me check. ;-)
<wpwrak> heh "_
<wpwrak> not sure if it's that what he meant
<cladamwa> so with the same method, I'm thinking using same theory for audio line-in.
<cladamwa> yeah...but it's okay. we can draw idea fristly then ask joerg for help then, how do you think? ;-)
<wpwrak> (line in) there goes the nice ground :)
<wpwrak> yup. leave it to him to tear those ideas apart :)
<cladamwa> wpwrak, yes, although current there goes to ground, but I'll also let there to be reached liek 'low' sc level 'normally' (i.e. not plugg-in yet).
<cladamwa> wpwrak, yes, so i'll edit audio sche page again then for help . ;-)
<kristianpaul> xiangfu: n8, thanks for the script now i have a basis to debug my niner :)
<cladamwa> wpwrak, btw, i did really apply yet joerg's idea on those DC blocking 2 pins header for un-used audio input path, how do you think this?
<xiangfu> kristianpaul, n8
<wpwrak> mmh, not sure which of the many audio changes you mean
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<cladamwa> wpwrak, since i don't know if we need to use more route space for TP47~TP51( which were I added ), but original idea from you was to leave solder-pad only.
<wpwrak> ah, MIC2 and friends
<wpwrak> i'd just put the caps close to the chip and NC them. no antenna = no RF trouble, right ? :)
<cladamwa> you wanted to keep those un-used footprint for DC blocking if one can use them for playing them. but joreg suggested put them in ground when no use.
<cladamwa> yes, your idea thoughts not bad and reasonable, but from Joreg's suggestions that he wanted us to reduce audio input noise as possible, so he said that we may use 2 pins headers to short to ground those un-used caps.
<wpwrak> i think that may be overkill
<wpwrak> of the traces between chip and the NC caps are short, not much can crawl in anyway
<cladamwa> from my simple idea is quite same like you and even just put footprint only and NO test points, and DNP them.
<wpwrak> and i'd NC the caps :)
<wpwrak> yup
<wpwrak> NC == DNP :)
<cladamwa> okay, so let's not add Test points and DNP them. done?
<wpwrak> sounds great to me :)
<cladamwa> okay, done. ;-) then I edit the plugg-in and detection idea and ask in list for joerg again. ;-)
<cladamwa> btw, to have detection idea, can you see your rc2 sch now?
<wpwrak> rc2 ?
<cladamwa> yes
<cladamwa> although we replaced R23/R24 (6.8K ohm) with varistor V27/V28 now,
<cladamwa> correct?
<wpwrak> M1rc2 ? where are the schematics of that ? and what is there about detection ? and where ?
<cladamwa> you don't have rc2 sch? checking...
<cladamwa> audio sch in rc2 is almost quite the same as rc3, but I'm trying to describe my idea on line-in detection to you now. ;-)
<wpwrak> thanks
<cladamwa> see page 1 for audio
<cladamwa> there's R23/R24, now M1R4 we replaced them as V27/V28, so....
<cladamwa> so my plans for line-in solutions:
<wpwrak> yup. looks like rc3 :)
<cladamwa> 1. use 100K ohm to pull up on DC3.3V then connects to J1.3pin.
<cladamwa> yes
<cladamwa> 2. J1. 5 goes to AUDIO_GND
<wpwrak> ah, 50% grounded:)
<cladamwa> 3. place back those R23/R24 6.8K ohm back like in rc2 but still keep V27/V28
<wpwrak> i knew that would come :)
<cladamwa> 4. connect J1.3 to fpga un-used pin
<wpwrak> but yes, seems to be the only choice. unless the codec itself contains anything that can help
<cladamwa> 5. so Normal = Low(0.395V), Plug-in = high(3.3V)
<cladamwa> yeah
<cladamwa> how do you think this method?
<wpwrak> sounds reasonable
<cladamwa> i need to check fpga's Vin low threathhood value.
<cladamwa> now checking...
<qi-bot> The Firmware build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-milkymist/milkymist-firmware-20120214-0309/
<wpwrak> yeah, easy :)
<cladamwa> so sound a 0.395V(low) is less than VIL @LVTTL and LVCMOS33. ;-)
<cladamwa> so should be okay, right?
<cladamwa> the column on VIL (V, max)
<wpwrak> yup
<cladamwa> wait, why did you say 50% grounded ? is it problem?
<cladamwa> you meant one of (J1.5 and J1.3) to audio ground @ 50 %, is not okay?
<wpwrak> you're undoing part of the paranoia grounding you added on joerg's advice. but i don't know if it matters
<wpwrak> probably not
<wpwrak> we're not exactly doing hi-fi recordomg amyway
<cladamwa> oah..yes. need to undo...
<cladamwa> yeah..so let me edit those idea above in audio sch page then ask for detection in list again. hehe...okay?
<cladamwa> yeah...we 're not doing hi-fi device. should be okay? or don't know?
<wpwrak> our main use of audio in is currently called "bass", "mid", or "treb". and it's off the documented range by some 15 dB, maybe more. so ... :)
<cladamwa> aha...i didn't see s/w setting too much, yeah, if like only three catagories, phew~ yes, overkill ... :)
<cladamwa> okay...later I'll send idea in list again. hope joreg don't think we're crazy though. ;-)
<wpwrak> (3 bands) that shouldn't stop us from doing better, of course. but that's where we're at for now :)
<cladamwa> ;-D
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<lekernel> sometimes there are happy surprises with ISE... the 13.4 version now correctly infers that wide block RAM with byte-level WE's
<whitequark> they did it accidentally ;)
<Fallenou> ahah
<kristianpaul> ok lets move to 13.4 then..
<kristianpaul> wtf whty i'm getting arsicgt console instead of webpack !
<kristianpaul> arcsight*
<kristianpaul> here we go again... *sigh*
<kristianpaul> i give for now, even with other webwrosers it dint work..
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<GitHub90> [migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/0c214b484ec4b342e6338fc6b66d655b3c06f06a
<GitHub90> [migen/master] Use double quotes for all strings - Sebastien Bourdeauducq
<GitHub103> [milkymist-ng] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/1g9JBg
<GitHub103> [milkymist-ng/master] Use double quotes for all strings - Sebastien Bourdeauducq
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<GitHub148> [migen] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/milkymist/migen/commit/46b1f74e98dcdf179c74845faafda5fca7bee572
<GitHub148> [migen/master] bus/asmibus/hub: forward data and tag_call - Sebastien Bourdeauducq
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<GitHub22> [flickernoise] wpwrak pushed 7 new commits to direct-midi: http://git.io/8B-erw
<GitHub22> [flickernoise/direct-midi] stimuli: refuse to bind the same control twice - Werner Almesberger
<GitHub22> [flickernoise/direct-midi] compiler: set SF_ASSIGNED for control variables to prevent -Wundefined warning - Werner Almesberger
<GitHub22> [flickernoise/direct-midi] compiler: allow multiple stimuli to set the same variable - Werner Almesberger
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<GitHub71> [milkymist-ng] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/JVgA3w
<GitHub71> [milkymist-ng/master] README - Sebastien Bourdeauducq
<wpwrak> whoa. done ? :)
<GitHub189> [milkymist-ng] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/WMOw_w
<GitHub189> [milkymist-ng/master] s6ddrphy: prepare quilt - Sebastien Bourdeauducq
<lekernel> no, not yet
<lekernel> but I have a very precise idea of what needs to be done. now it's just coding and debugging ...
<lekernel> phew, active low resets... I never got it
<Fallenou> lekernel: are store words working correctly for you using migen & milkymist-ng ?
<Fallenou> on sram
<lekernel> it's something competely useless in a FPGA and, in ASICs, optimizing the reset polarity should be done by the tools, not the coder
<lekernel> Fallenou: yes
<Fallenou> ok
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<lekernel> mirko: you're at in-berlin?
<mirko> lekernel: kinda.. hosting stuff there..
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<Fallenou> And I somehow end up with sram data_in being 32'bX in soc.v
<Fallenou> exactly during the write (when sram0_wishbone_we_i == 1)
<Fallenou> which is kind of a problem :p
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<GitHub76> [flickernoise] wpwrak pushed 1 new commit to direct-midi: http://git.io/s9hqng
<GitHub76> [flickernoise/direct-midi] More work on the MIDI documentation - Werner Almesberger
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<larsc_> hm, what's the result of expressions like 'assign a = ~a' and more interestingly 'assign a = b | ~a'
<wpwrak> local overheating ?
<larsc_> my generic flow control logic model resolves to 'ack_o = ack_i & ~stb_o; stb_o = stb_i & ack_o;' for combinatorial actors
<larsc_> this could either mean my model is still to generic, it is wrong, or there are some special rules on how to handle self contradicting logic
<larsc_> and if you build the truth tables it show that for the cases where the logic is coherent it is equivalent to ack_o = ack_i;stb_o = stb_i
<wpwrak> hmm :)
<wpwrak> i'm actually a bit surprised that you can get away with assign a = f(b); assign b = f(a); i.e., a cyclic dependency
<larsc_> i'd expect it to settle to a fixed point. if it has one
<lekernel> yeah, combinatorial loops can be messy
<lekernel> you can actually build sequential systems with them :)
<wpwrak> did you check the logs for suspicious warnings ? like "confusing logic set to 0" or such ? i noticed that xst rather likes to do such things
<lekernel> there's even a generic method to build any (asynchronous) FSMs using combinatorial logic only
<lekernel> (which I forgot, because it's of little use in FPGAs)
<lekernel> larsc_: I think you can resolve the problems without combinatorial loops... afaik all you need is a way to track partial acks when you have several outputs
<lekernel> which you can do with normal registers
<lekernel> Fallenou: X's may or may not be normal