<yomimono>
also, if you want to moderate a meeting (or make a bot to do it for us), please stick your hand up :) I don't need to do so much talking here
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<avsm>
greetings! apologies for being slightly distracted at start, am in multiple meetings simultanously :)
<yomimono>
first on the agenda - some folks may remember a PR to mirage-www back in July proposing quality standards for MirageOS repositories/packages
<avsm>
I broadly like it, but would like to arrest the feature creep and hold it to the standards currently proposed
<avsm>
one at a time :)
<avsm>
and make sure that we cover a few well before adding more
<yomimono>
specifically, I'd like to take some of the low-"level" recommendations and turn them into more accessible ways to contribute for key repositories
<avsm>
yeah! that would be fantastic
<hannes>
I still struggle to find maintainers for some mirage repositories -- not getting an answer on a (imho sensible) PR for weeks is really disappointing (this time: cstruct)
<avsm>
just been really busy, sorry
<avsm>
i hope that with more accessible guidelines, we can also attract more maintainers
<yomimono>
hannes: that's for sure a problem :/ i've seen tons of folks pitch in on more general questions but we have a lot of repos that are gated on specific people
<djs55>
is it possible to get a list of outstanding Mirage PRs ordered by time? Sometimes I have time, but I don't know where to work
<hannes>
and about that PR, I'm still not sure how to do levels etc. there are some items which can (should?) be automated, but I as well don't know whether we have so much common recommendation
<avsm>
i'm planning to look at that cstruct pr tomorrow, fwiw, to unblock 4.06.0 (which has been taking up a lot of my time)
<talex5>
I've been getting private emails from various people. Should I direct them to the mailing list or the discuss site?
<yomimono>
djs55: I use the "pull requests" view in GH, with the "mentioned" pane, as a proxy for this
<djs55>
yomimono: will give that a go, thanks!
<yomimono>
you may be able to filter for org:mirage in that view?
<avsm>
talex5: about libraries, the use of mirage, or the project, or something else?
<talex5>
About Mirage Qubes GUI support, about using mirage/capnp-rpc and about the Irmin-js bindings recently.
<hannes>
talex5: no, it is very public and active (see recent discussions on performance)
<yomimono>
I think we still have unresolved issues about moderation in the mailing list, though
<yomimono>
or at least I never heard of resolution on them :(
<talex5>
OK, will send them there.
<hannes>
avsm: well, i really don't know who's in charge of cstruct (is it only you?)...
<avsm>
no, its not just me...
<djs55>
I've done maintenance on cstruct, although not on the cstruct.ppx internals
<avsm>
this is thepurpose of the qualiy standards... just to nominate clear maintainers
<hannes>
I really think this should be step 0 - to have a (list of) individuals who feel responsible for a piece of code
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<yomimono>
"feel responsible for" != "have time and energy to maintain"
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<yomimono>
I think that's a big problem currently
<hannes>
yomimono: imho feeling responsible means to find the time for maintainence
<yomimono>
hm, for me it's quite dependent on how high the priorities are for other things in the queue
<yomimono>
I guess I'm trying to say that I think those lists will be different
<yomimono>
who knows this code vs who has time and interest for this code; perhaps I misunderstand "feel responsible for" - to me that implies "I made this monster and now I have to stop it from scaring the townspeople"
<yomimono>
but it sounds like you mean a more positive thing
<yomimono>
at any rate, I think we have a poor sense of both of those things for a lot of repositories. a cursory look at commit history for lots of stuff makes me look more responsible than I am, for example
<hannes>
sorry for the misunderstanding, I meant "I've been working on this for N years, and designed it -> I'm happy to review changes (within timeframe X, where X should be less than a week) and comment there"
<yomimono>
now that I'm not paid for working on MirageOS anymore I have a new sympathy for others' reluctance to commit to timeframes on things
<yomimono>
but perhaps I should step back and let more people comment on that
<hannes>
I also remember yomimono proposed a bug cleaning day, which I think would still be a good thing to do.
<talex5>
yomimono: yes, I'm in the same situation.
<yomimono>
yes :( I failed to execute on that but still would like to do it. a conspirator would be welcome :)
<djs55>
I'm up for a bug cleaning day — closing old issues is quite fun
<hannes>
djs55: yomimono: \o/ imho it would be great _before_ end of November (to be able to get fresh bugs in Morocco)
<yomimono>
hannes, djs55: is there a date which works best for you? early/mid november is fairly open for me, I can do any day but the 6th
<hannes>
17th!?
<yomimono>
works for me, djs55?
<djs55>
I'm suspiciously free on the 17th
<yomimono>
17th November it is :D
<djs55>
I guess I'm not free now! :)
<djs55>
I'll book my calendar so I don't forget
<yomimono>
I'll stick it on the agenda for the next catchup also
<yomimono>
mail to mirageos-devel and post to discuss.ocaml.org would probably also be a good idea
<hannes>
yes, organisation / hangout via IRC here, I suspect!?
<yomimono>
nobody's going to believe me if I post it so maybe someone else should do it :P
<hannes>
I can do that
<yomimono>
hannes: yeah, I think this is a good place for organization, then we'll get nice public logs too
<yomimono>
(thanks _whitelogger !)
<hannes>
and the agenda is basically what I linked up there (without the is:pr)..
<hannes>
is there a place for collecting feature requests? (esp. avsm sesms to like using GitHub for that, such as ARM64 support for MirageOS+xen)?
<yomimono>
sounds great to me :D
<yomimono>
hm, many of the "pioneer project"s are feature requests
<avsm>
issues are a good as way anything for now, dont invent something new yet :)
<yomimono>
...having heard no volunteers for PR, I'll post about this despite my lack of credibility ;)
<yomimono>
look for mailing list/discuss traffic from me about this by the end of the week.
<avsm>
i can post, sorry just distracted
<yomimono>
oh nice, thanks :)
<yomimono>
after bug cleaning day, I'd like to *add* a bunch of issues to a high-visibility repository reflecting the noncontroversial work needed to get it into a better code quality state
<yomimono>
*that* repository should have a maintainer or set of maintainers committed to reviewing any PRs that come out of those issues
<yomimono>
if you hate this and want me not to do it, or you definitely want me to do it for a repository you feel strongly about, let me know
<hannes>
yomimono: I do not understand, "a high-vis repo"? a new one? an existing one?
<yomimono>
an existing one widely used in mirage
<yomimono>
mirage/mirage itself perhaps, mirage/mirage-tcpip comes to mind as well but that's probably my own bias showing
<yomimono>
(but also it's the only library I can really make a useful maintainer commitment for myself)
<hannes>
there've been annoyances in uri and ipaddr... which seem to be unmaintained as well
<yomimono>
(and I too have lingering PRs there... sorry djs55)
<djs55>
hehe it's not urgent
<yomimono>
ipv6 tho T_T
<reynir>
Was gonna ask about ipv6 heh
<avsm>
fundamentally, we need to get more maintainers in place to deal with our short term maintainer shortage
<yomimono>
reynir: do you have test infrastructure for that?
<avsm>
the problem is compounded by the fast pace of ocaml releases. this has been communicated to the release managers :)
<avsm>
i e.g. get pulled away to that regularly
<avsm>
i need to run now, but I do plan to do a short term sweep of issues on thu/fri for 4.06 preparation
<reynir>
yomimono: I'm not sure I would call it that. I'm awfully ignorant about ipv6, but I have a server with lots of ipv6 addresses. Question is if it's just me being an idiot or not...
<hannes>
while I see some green buttons here and there, I really avoid to merge unapproved PRs anywhere... it seems to me that some other people just merge their own stuff to make progress..
<avsm>
but in the longer term, the maintainer standards proposed by yomimono is the only way to go
<avsm>
we need to get those in place and use the wider ocaml community to help us
<avsm>
mirage wasnt built to manage 100s of libraries :) ocaml and opam communities do that
<yomimono>
I don't know about my maintainer standards :)
<yomimono>
avsm: did you mean to tag someone else?
<avsm>
sorry, i meant that ones you brought up in the agenda
<avsm>
samoht i think :)
<yomimono>
oh, I see :)
<yomimono>
reynir: I was blocked on ipv6 uplink for a long time but finally got access to it myself, and have been hoping to set aside time for learning more about it + testing out those bits of tcpip
<reynir>
I could probably wipe that machine if someone wants to use it for ipv6 testing
<yomimono>
I think there might be more ipv6 testbeds than testers atm, sadly :(
<reynir>
heh
<yomimono>
hannes: yeah, lots of people do merge their own PRs, myself included. when I do that I'm assuming that no "OMG no don't do this" is good enough
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<yomimono>
I agree that we shouldn't be merging our own PRs, though
<hannes>
yomimono: I do understand and see the reasons, but I'd strongly recommend to find a reviewer first. I'm happy to review code in various repositories.
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<yomimono>
I find myself doing "review" on repositories I'm not really qualified to comment on a lot - just this week I merged some stuff in ocaml-vhd because nobody else had time to look at it, even though I barely know what that package does :(
<yomimono>
(it looked like a fairly mechanical mirage3 port, which I *am* somewhat qualified to assess, but what happens when the users have contributions that require real knowledge of the library?)
<yomimono>
...but I think this conversation is getting away from me a bit. thanks for the offer of reviews, hannes; I'll try to be more active in asking for review in the future.
<hannes>
yomimono: I think that is fine, if they change the core library, you'll likely find some maintainers commenting on that (by using insights -> contributors OR git blame)
<yomimono>
That might be a good place to call discussion on that agenda point done.
<yomimono>
...hearing none, thanks for coming :) our next catchup will be at *16.00* UTC (note the time change) on Wednesday, 8 November
<yomimono>
please add agenda items! let us know what you're working on! solo5, perf, rpc, downstream users, all of it!
<yomimono>
requests for documentation! requests for headpats! links to cat photos!
<yomimono>
(maybe send those last ones directly to me)
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<reynir>
Anyone know about the meetup "MF#K: Hands-on #MirageOS #OCaml" next week in copenhagen? They don't have a description up
<rand__>
yes! I'm arranging the 'hands-on' together with gentauro
<rand__>
will be making a description soon
<reynir>
Cool! I look forward to it, was just wondering what will be covered
<rand__>
there is also a talk by a guy that gentauro knows, Joe, if that says anything
<reynir>
yes
<rand__>
don't know exactly what Joe will be talking about
<rand__>
but as for the hands-on I'm planning on people getting a unikernel up and running that's able to merge some data via CRDT's and Irmin (I'm myself learning Mirage now, so don't hang me up on the specifics...)
<rand__>
merging over wlan with eachother if possible
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<hannes>
rand__: that sounds ambitious, but like a very nice project :)
<rand__>
hannes: thanks (: .. well I know it might be too ambitious for the time I have until tuesday, but hoping to get it running hehe
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