14:33 <Hodges> Lots of people on the sidebar there...

14:35 <Hodges> I'm not sure if this is the best channel for it but I'm certainly interested in this phone, if only for the design philosophy behind it. Anyone interested in spitballing or is this dev only kind of channel?

14:41 <sn0wmonster> nah, its the public community channel and catch-all

14:41 <sn0wmonster> ask anything you want

15:24 <Joerg-Neo900> Hodges: Hi! sorry I'm just in a stopover right now, bbl. Until then you might want to watch Werner's excellent talk http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/ccc2015talk/neo900-wpwrak_CCC2015.webm (see /topic)

15:27 <Hodges> I was actually just watching the 2014.

15:27 <Hodges> Actually, looks like a different organization.

15:28 <Hodges> 2014 - https://youtu.be/ahPFCFooBv0 // 2013 - https://youtu.be/VWPmXxq1MdQ

15:29 <Hodges> As far as substance goes, should I just go with what's most recent or really delve into it's inception because this has really captured my attention

15:30 <Joerg-Neo900> most recent is most accurate

15:30 <Joerg-Neo900> :-)

15:33 <Hodges> Man, I just have shell-shock that people are already so far along into this.

15:36 <Hodges> Generally when I address anything security related I feel like the insane lovechild of Ted K and Richard Stallman and this has been with people I spent the better part of my young adult life working alongside at a multi-discipline security/repair/manf oriented startup.

15:40 <Hodges> I've worked with people dogmatic about running Libreboot compatible distros with a passion for some kind of free software initiate that thought I was off-my-rocker for taking 'cell phone' related security seriously.

15:40 <sn0wmonster> Hodges, welcome to freenode :)

15:41 <Hodges> Being fiscally responsible, how do I get a fully open-source hardware/software phone in my pocket in the next few weeks?

15:42 <Hodges> I don't need a browser, I text my home server and it texts me back. My only requirement is good cellular reception and something that won't throw my back.

15:44 <sn0wmonster> no such thing

15:45 <Hodges> The information on these N900/N950/GTA## is scarce and out-of-date, or atleast not well documented and maintained - no offense to any parties involved.

15:45 <Hodges> Don't tell me it isn't so Snow.

15:45 <sn0wmonster> so you dont even need a smartphone?

15:45 <sn0wmonster> oh you need somethin that can *at least* send text messages

15:47 <Hodges> I am horribly dependent on many non-free software solution that are ubiquitous and seemingly impossible to live without in day-to-day life but most tragically, with work.

15:47 <Hodges> I am confident I can work around it though.

15:48 <sn0wmonster> (also, ive got like 200 second lag right now

15:51 <Hodges> For as long as the device can fit in my pocket, hold a charge, play music, display offline maps, and send/receive texts I'll be content. Smartphone after smartphone the more work I put into making it better the less it matters because I have no idea what really works under the hood.

15:55 <Hodges> But damn, I thought at a minimum an early prototype were available for sale. I'm looking for a gateway drug to the proof-of-concept draft Neo900.

15:57 <sixwheeledbeast> N900 is the device I use for all that functionality right now.

15:58 <Joerg-Neo900> the only existing full open source hw&sw phone I know so far is OpenMoko Freerunner, You won't find those anymore. Then maybe you might like N900 which is not open hw but schematics available and it runs maemo which is arguably pretty much open source except for a few apps, read: dialer, calendar. And you could run e.g SHR and even plain vanilla debian on it, though a few rough edges. It's limited by today's judgement, but still does an

15:58 <Joerg-Neo900> excellent job for me for IRC, phone, SMS, xterm/ssh (both directions) and general linux usage

15:59 <Joerg-Neo900> It's also the "prototype" for Neo900

15:59 <Hodges> If I pulled the trigger on one now, worked around whatever limitation it has as far as supported software, processing power, etc#, etc# would time spent learning the platform not be a sunk cost?

15:59 <Joerg-Neo900> not at all

16:00 <Hodges> The technology or concepts aren't new, but I'd hate to be a dozen papers behind and find out there is some fully open ARM chip on the way and some company I've never heard of making non-proprietary cellular radios and whatever else is tricky.

16:01 <Joerg-Neo900> I wish that would be true. No way though

16:01 <Joerg-Neo900> OMAP is "fully open" as far as docs

16:01 <Hodges> As it stands, I use Google Fi with a Nexus 5X with CopperheadOS.

16:02 <Hodges> Most every service I need is self-hosted and largely takes care of itself with little to no upkeep..

16:03 <Joerg-Neo900> then there are a few newer phones, only remarkable existing one being Sailfish. It's not at all open hw and not really open se either since it basically runs a proprietary supervisor and the linux as Dom-U

16:03 <Hodges> For the few difficult things to distance myself from, I just run them in a controlled environment and remotely control them with XMPP.

16:04 <Joerg-Neo900> there's the librem5(?) which seems to follow the FOSS sw approach but no open hw approach afaict

16:04 <Hodges> I know it goes without saying, but I'm not doing anything criminal. I just don't want traced, tracked, targeted, or use something I can't trust.

16:05 <Joerg-Neo900> welcome to the club :-)

16:05 <Hodges> When I'm 64 I don't want to walk into a store and have targeted ads blasted at me

16:05 <Joerg-Neo900> too late ;-)

16:05 <Hodges> I don't want to be turned down by a job because they outsource 'candidate research' using dubiously acquired information about me

16:06 <Joerg-Neo900> yep

16:06 <Hodges> The NSA and the whole military industrial complex exists because of silicon valley money

16:06 <Joerg-Neo900> sorry, busy again. BBL

16:06 <Hodges> because they all retire, start SMEs and deal with the same people

16:06 <sixwheeledbeast> Definitely too late if you use any Google service

16:06 <Hodges> Our generals, politicians and our best scientists.

16:07 <Hodges> I am already pretty deep

16:07 <Hodges> But it's never too late to start.

16:07 <Hodges> I mean, I have 30TB of the most irreverent stuff. My search history on google is insane.

16:08 <Hodges> The things I buy on amazon are ridiculous.

16:08 <Hodges> The contents of my texts are innocent and plenty enough to lock me up for life.

16:09 <Hodges> Nobody is any different. There's too much goddamn data on people and it'll be the end of our species.

16:11 <Hodges> Am I coming at this from the wrong angle? Because I'm heated and I want to spend all my free time fighting this shit.

16:13 <Hodges> http://hir.harvard.edu/article/?a=7327

16:18 <Hodges> I apologize if I'm dominating this IRC with my psycho-babble. I'm very enthusiastic about this because I have never discovered something that incorporated so many aspects of my interests, skills, education and work experience that I was actually passionate about with any degree of confidence I could act on it and do some good while having fun.

16:19 <Hodges> So what brings everyone else here?

16:34 <sixwheeledbeast> Maemo community and future upgrade to my N900.

16:41 <Hodges> Is there a tl;dr for why the N900 is used? Is there really nothing else out that's has as much public documentation on the internals?

16:42 <Hodges> Was it just the first to be thoroughly dissected and no one else has bothered to hurdle to adapt another phone?

16:46 <sixwheeledbeast> The idea is to be compatible with all the maemo packages and reusing the casing reduces manufacturing costs.

16:46 <sixwheeledbeast> https://neo900.org/faq#case

16:47 <Joerg-Neo900> GTA04, N900 both are based on BeagleBoard

16:47 <sixwheeledbeast> https://neo900.org/faq#cpu

16:47 <Joerg-Neo900> N900 has an existing community and application base

16:48 <Hodges> I see. I have a lot of reading to do.

16:48 <Joerg-Neo900> so coming from Openmoko Neo Freerunner and N900, a Neo900 was the maost natural next thing

16:49 <Hodges> I can relate to these frustrations, mainly with sourcing parts.

16:50 <Joerg-Neo900> see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 my first post and all the links in there

16:50 <Hodges> I was once tasked with making a standalone HDD data erasure box but each time a new feature or simple request cropped up it was impossible.

16:50 <Hodges> Touch screens with the proper interface

16:50 <Hodges> The proper resolution

16:52 <Joerg-Neo900> you seen blockdiagraqm? (don't miss the hovertext)

16:52 <Joerg-Neo900> ~bd

16:52 <infobot> bd is probably http://neo900.org/stuff/block-diagrams/neo900/neo900.html the very fine and detailled Block Diagram, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1445200#post1445200

16:52 <Joerg-Neo900> afk

17:02 <Hodges> Any CAD stuff available?

17:02 <Hodges> Octopart friendly lists?

17:03 <Hodges> I've found some of this stuff my self but I'm not really sure what's relevant or credible.

17:03 <Hodges> But goddamn are those some impressive diagrams

17:06 <Hodges> I thought calculator nerds were passionate...

17:08 <Hodges> How is the neo900 project managed?

17:12 <Hodges> Is the initiate to monetize it (and if so in what way), to just make a device like this happen (with the hope of being cost-effective), or to exist as a proof-of-concept with some other goals?

17:12 <sn0wmonster> with the power of the internet

17:12 <sn0wmonster> hehe

17:14 <sn0wmonster> i'd say all of the above, in a specific order

17:16 <Hodges> lol

17:19 <Hodges> Let me know if this is an obtuse question or not. How closed off is the information on the development on the neo900? I imagine the project is looking for active contributors but I can't imagine how that'd begin.

17:20 <Hodges> Community involvement? Suggestions, feedback, advice, etc#?

17:39 <sn0wmonster> both! but its' managed by Joerg

18:18 <Joerg-Neo900> Hodges: schematics need SoC/core integration after proto_v2, we're about to layout proto_v2 and build a 5 to 10 prototypes for debugging. We still need *) sourcing particularly of weird special parts like N87-cam, N900 case and display, domesheet, maybe a few Mugen N900 bat covers would be nice. We face the challenge to start a kickstarter to generate more preorders, with the usual requirements from videos to sozial media rambling. we need

18:18 <Joerg-Neo900> newletter writers and a web manager... Let me think... I'm sure I forgot 50%, prolly the more important ones -- oh, we work with kicad and all our repos (except layout) are public

18:21 <Hodges> Hm...

18:29 <Hodges> I appreciate the in-depth response. I'm definitely interested in seeing if there is anything I can do to contribute. I'm just mentally beat right now so I can't find much to say now.

21:50 <Joerg-Neo900> https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ reached goal, great success. All the best and good luck to them, their success will benefit all similar projects, so Neo900

21:50 <__Chris> :)

21:59 <knttl> some goals of the librem are pretty near the neo900 goals. but it's noch hacky enough :D