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<THodges> Is future warfare a consideration in this project?
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<Joerg-Neo900> ls -l neo900.kicad_pcb -rw-r--r-- 1 jr users 3985849 Oct 13 18:18 neo900.kicad_pcb
<Joerg-Neo900> [main] 170c67fa86d58a4df4e79fd3156597ad9e464bf0 2017-10-10 13:24 metacollin o [proto_v2_layout] [origin/proto_v2_layout] More layout progress.
<Joerg-Neo900> "future warfare"? is that a literal question?
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<Joerg-Neo900> on a sidenote: Librem13 schematics are non-public and obviously never will be. I don't see how that might be any different for Librem5. Just as a postscriptum to >>How does the Purism phone compare to neo900?<<
<Joerg-Neo900> also tells a sad story about state of "RYF" certification
<Joerg-Neo900> the pathetic results from trying to certify hardware based exclusively on software related criteria
<_Chris_> Okay, fair argument.
<Joerg-Neo900> based on this rationale, every arbitrary Android phone qualifies for "RYF" as long as there's a way to root it
<_Chris_> Is there any reason they doesn't release the schematics?
<Joerg-Neo900> "they are not ours, they are NDAed by Intel"
<Joerg-Neo900> ROTFL
<_Chris_> Hmmm.
<Joerg-Neo900> now if that's not a very clear distinction to our approach, then I don't know what else to say
<Joerg-Neo900> you know what's our very first chip selection criterion during R&D? "can we find a (publicly available) datasheet for that thing?"
<Xiaoman> Am I the only one that find their "Short Story" on the Librem 5 shopping page entirely disingenuous?
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<Xiaoman> They use the "we are the first" marketing trick, while technically not lying, because they use undefined definitions, but still obviously not true.
<Joerg-Neo900> If any chip would render our schematics "not fit for publication" then such cjip is a total NoGo
<Joerg-Neo900> Xiaoman: yes, I already caled them out on this
<_Chris_> Are there people from purism?
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<Joerg-Neo900> [2017-10-12 Thu 03:16:34] <DocScrutinizer05> in context: I challenge the >>A fully standards-based freedom-oriented system, based on Debian and many other upstream projects, has never been done before–we will be the first to seriously attempt this.<<
<Joerg-Neo900> [2017-10-12 Thu 03:17:21] <jo0nas> DocScrutinizer05: I understand how you challenge that
<Joerg-Neo900> [2017-10-12 Thu 03:17:41] <LjL> DocScrutinizer05, Purism stuff has some claims that are a bit PR-y, but i don't think you should see them as a way to erase your previous efforts from history... it's more that you know, people need to financially back projects.
<Joerg-Neo900> [2017-10-12 Thu 03:22:28] <DocScrutinizer05> honestly even neglecting Neo900 (which I don't mind at all), neglecting Openmoko is sort of ... not feeling honest
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<Joerg-Neo900> [2017-10-12 Thu 03:22:58] <DocScrutinizer05> and then there was Maemo
<Joerg-Neo900> [2017-10-12 Thu 03:23:21] <DocScrutinizer05> with a supposedly 600k sold units, maybe 1 mio
<Xiaoman> :/
<_Chris_> Dificult.
<Joerg-Neo900> it's like a souffle, the moment you open the oven it collapses to a nothing
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<Joerg-Neo900> I was giving them a lot of benefit of the doubt, but this last thing about schematics was... disenchanting
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<Joerg-Neo900> on the bright side: this makes them even less of a competitor to this project
<Xiaoman> They are living on hype and "promises" they cannot deliver.
<Joerg-Neo900> I'd tend to agree
<Xiaoman> I think they are doing some good working with Libreboot, Matrix etc, but it just isn't good enough in regards to actually delivering proper systems.
<Xiaoman> A FLOSS/OHWR project has failed if it cannot even replace my X220.
<Joerg-Neo900> funny: ^^^ how I came to finding out about this: I tried to help them with coreboot which has issues with battery charge reportings. so I went http://paste.opensuse.org/96253673
<Xiaoman> I am actually expecting that my next laptop might be a RISC-V board in a X220 shell.
<Joerg-Neo900> so what they do is not better than what nokia did with maemo. Providing sourcecode supposed to provide the functionality on closed hardware that their target audience might need according to what they guess
<Xiaoman> heh
<Joerg-Neo900> just nokia pretty soonish 'leaked' their schematics
<Xiaoman> And you don't really get any benefit that a user couldn't get by installing the things herself.
<Xiaoman> On different closed systems.
<Joerg-Neo900> exactly. Or from any arbitrary other platform that got a "REed" linux running on it
<Xiaoman> I would actually argue that a purism librem system is less open than my X220.
<Joerg-Neo900> except for their two DPDT switches that my granny could install into her Lenovo for a 50ct
<Xiaoman> I don't see a need for that.
<Joerg-Neo900> it's needed for their sales tale
<Xiaoman> If my kernel is trusted it won't make a difference, if my kernel is untrusted then that hardware getting abused is the least of my worries.
<Joerg-Neo900> ***exactly*** :-D
<Xiaoman> I don't think I can make a threat model where it actually makes sense to have.
<Xiaoman> I might want to have activity indicators.
<Xiaoman> Maybe.
<Joerg-Neo900> like... LEDs? :-)
<Xiaoman> Would be nice if cams/mics couldn't be charged without setting of an LED, so the user could know when it was _actually_ active.
<Xiaoman> (and then it would be on 24/7 for most plebs)
<Joerg-Neo900> hmm, seems we already got those ;-)
<Xiaoman> In Neo900?
<Joerg-Neo900> yes
<Xiaoman> Ahh, didn't think about that. My mind is still on my X220 vs librem.
<Xiaoman> Btw, you have "Estimated shipping date: Q3/2017" on the shopping page.
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<Joerg-Neo900> damn, yeah. The website and shop need a lot of maintenance
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<Joerg-Neo900> sorry I fell behind with keeping up on accomplishing all those tasks as they come in, and focused on my core competence R&D. I hope to get the months_high backlog processed soonish
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