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<Necrosporus>
Do any pocket computers exist in 2018 beside GPD stuff, which can run at least two different operating system?
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<atk>
any reasonably open device can run an infinite number of operating systems, as long as you're willing to write them :P
<atk>
but I assume you mean a device which is officially supported by some number of linux distributions, bsds androids, whatevers
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<Necrosporus>
atk, let's rephrase it now. Are there any devices which have a keyboard, are reasonably small and can run an operating system other than Android, and still sold officially
<Necrosporus>
Pocket computers
<atk>
it depends on how powerful you want it to be
<Necrosporus>
I know there were N900, Jornada, Nokia 9110, but they all are out of busyness and can only be bought as old units
<Necrosporus>
Also Pandora and Pyra, but Pandora is outdated, and Pyra still not available
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<Necrosporus>
And there is GPD stuff, Win and Pocket. And also Gemini, which is said to only work on android, GNU/Linux is installable but not useable
<Necrosporus>
atk, is there anything newer than 2015 and not in list?
<bencoh>
(you forgot the motorola droid4 in the list of old devices able to run linux)
<bencoh>
(~2012 iirc)
<atk>
Necrosporus: yes, there's a device, but I think it's not very powerful and I can't remember what it's called and I think the company behind it went bust this year
<atk>
not sure what it ran but I think it might have been linux or a custom OS
<Necrosporus>
So, HPC are out of busyness basically
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<Necrosporus>
atk, what do you think about Psion Netbook Pro?
<atk>
I've only just heard of it
<atk>
seems even more outdated than the N900 :P
<atk>
I just use a N900
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<Necrosporus>
There are a lot of keyboard tablets, but they all are on Intel hardware and come with Windows 10, and their support in Linux is making them useable only with constant power connection
<Necrosporus>
Many of them cannot use USB and power up in same time
<Kero>
Gemini PDA
<bencoh>
Necrosporus: some people seem to find linux on GPD hardware quite usable, by the way
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<Necrosporus>
bencoh, the intel one? sure but it's too expensive for me
<Necrosporus>
besides, it comes with Windows 10 license which I don't wish to pay for
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<DocScrutinizer05>
>><Necrosporus> There are a lot of keyboard tablets, but they all are on Intel hardware and come with Windows 10, and their support in Linux is making them useable only with constant power connection<< That's e global problem of embedded. You need to follow an absolutely strict event-driven hw-IRQ-based paradigm for any phone aloke device, when you want standby. Even Pandora and GTA04 basically fail on this
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<DocScrutinizer05>
alike*
<sicelo>
this month was the first time ever that i finally felt some disappointment with my N900
<Necrosporus>
DocScrutinizer05, what do you think about ubuntu touch? It's sort of dead, but devices which can run it are not too hard to come by yet
<sicelo>
s/my N900/Fremantle/
<sicelo>
ubuntu touch was recently updated by community
<DocScrutinizer05>
sicelo: sorry, I totally forgot what I thought when firdst and only time looking into it - which prolly doesn't mean a good thing
<DocScrutinizer05>
Necrosporus: ^^^
<Necrosporus>
Yeah, I know
<Necrosporus>
I mean what do you think, how does it compare with neo900?
<sicelo>
ubuntu touch, you mean? i also don't really have much interest in it (but it does seem to be alive, to some extent)
<Necrosporus>
It seems that a smartphone which runs them could be bought much cheaper, but what about freedom
<DocScrutinizer05>
when I looked into it, a collision of touch with fremantrle woulkd have same effect like a solitaire star collidinbg with a whole galaxy.
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<sicelo>
i am lost now, DocScrutinizer05 :-)
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<Necrosporus>
I'm wondering, is Android going to dominate smartphones forever now?
<Necrosporus>
At first there were so many different kinds of mobile phones, some like tiny laptops, some with rotating and sliding and opening hinges, others just plain bricks with keyboard. But somehow at 2010 or something it all started to change and now all new smartphones are bricks with large screen for about 50 years or so
<Necrosporus>
When are we going to see something other than another brick on a mass market?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
when decent tiny formfactor AR/VR goggles get to market, See goog0lll gkas
<DocScrutinizer05>
see google glass
<DocScrutinizer05>
öf
<DocScrutinizer05>
r lez me rephrase: when Samsung Bixdy, Google assistant and Alexa meet
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<sixwheeledbeast>
Whats disappointing about fremantle?
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<sicelo>
sixwheeledbeast: SSL/TLS is making it more and more difficult to use Fremantle productively. I've lost access to two important mailboxes recently, and for the first time, a faced with an important decision - do I buy an Android phone now? :-(
<sicelo>
admnistrators of the work server obvioulsly do not want to loosen the security to accommodate N900 - I don't blame them.
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<atk>
sicelo: I heard something about proxying HTTPS traffic through a daemon you could run on the N900 with a statically compiled SSL/TLS library which would have its own certificate which you would trust
<atk>
someone told me that it would be possible to write something like that in Go quite easily
<atk>
but I don't like go so I was eventually going to look into doing it a slightly different way
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<sicelo>
i'd be happy to try such solutions .. but haven't seen anything concrete yet
<atk>
sicelo: well yes, in principle it should work
<atk>
sicelo: it's also possible (because I've had a look) to update openssl to a newer version
<atk>
but I don't know if that will fix the protocol problems
<atk>
but the principle is this
<atk>
you would have to find all the essential proprietary packages which rely on OpenSSL and do a binary modification on them to make them look for a different library
<atk>
they look for libssl.so and libcrypto.so, you want them to look for libXsl.so and libXrypto.so
<atk>
this binary modification won't break them, you can then symlink/copy the shared objects to test that this works
<atk>
what you do then is write a shim which implements all the now binary incompatible functions which the programs made use of
<atk>
and forwards all the other calls to libssl
<atk>
now that that works, you can build a new libssl and libcrypto and rebuild every open source package against them
<atk>
and finally you rebuild your shim against the new libssl
<atk>
and that SHOULD mean that now everything works
<sicelo>
i don't know if i'm capable of that :)
<sicelo>
and there's also maemo-certman in the equation ..
<sicelo>
but i will have a look
<atk>
hmm, the certificate store is just a certificate store
<atk>
you might need to push a new set of certs, that's not a hard part
<atk>
the hard part of the whole thing is getting a sensible build environment for N900
<atk>
I think I'm going to have to resign myself to just installing the ready made one because there's no documentation for how to do that outside of that environment
<atk>
I guess when I get that working I could reverse-engineer it
<sicelo>
'installing the ready made one' ... you mean scratchbox?
<atk>
yes
<atk>
no
<atk>
let me find on the maemo wiki
<atk>
wow, maemo.org is in pieces
<atk>
lots of features stopped working
<atk>
yes, scratchbox
<sicelo>
i have an old installation of scratchbox,
<atk>
I might try that again soon
<atk>
because I'm getting hit by the SSL problems too
<atk>
and modrana also stopped working
<atk>
modrana's google maps based routing
<atk>
or maybe I should just see about getting offline routing working
<atk>
or maybe another routing provider
<sicelo>
please let us know how it goes ... maybe on tmo
<atk>
it was wizzup in there offering to write that go proxy
<atk>
he might not remember now but if you explain the problem he should
<atk>
he might be able to help you get something working
<atk>
the channel is #maemo-leste
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<sixwheeledbeast>
scratchbox was at scratchbox.org
<ceene>
didn't jonwil build a newer openssl?
<ceene>
i did it too ages ago and it solved a few things, but never got it to be fully integrated on maemo
<ceene>
but i think jonwil should have it much more advanced than I did
<sicelo>
he built 1.0.2
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<ceene>
and it doesn't solve most issues?
<sicelo>
cu
<sicelo>
i haven't seen much change yet (probably because the majority of applications don't use openssl directly?)
<sicelo>
and those that do probably need recompilation?
<ceene>
they shouldn't
<ceene>
qt, for example, dlopens libssl, so it searches for latest version
<ceene>
so almost all qt based apps, should just work with the new library
<ceene>
but the rest of apps, well, i don't know what gtk does, for example
<sicelo>
odd thing is ... after updating to the newer qt4-x11, cutenews stopped updating some https feeds i had. so no idea what's up there. unfortunately i don't recall with version of qt4-network i had before,
<ceene>
i patched qt to remove ssl3.0 support, because it was deprecated and lots of sites were failing because qt wanted to connect using only ssl3.0, whereas the server had this as forbidden
<ceene>
so in fact, it should be the other way around, unless those few https feeds are misconfigured and trying to use ssl3.0 and now qt refuses to do so...
<sicelo>
actually i made a mistake earlier. it is not openssl 1.0.2, but 1.1.0h :)