jemfinch` changed the topic of #ocaml to: nob: it's not an option keyword. It's a datatype. 'a option. It can be either "None" or "Some data" -- it represents either data that's not there (None) or data that's there (Some data)
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<jfdklajfl>
hi
<malc>
lo
jfdklajfl is now known as Cerebrum
<Cerebrum>
I'm new to Ocaml...the site is down right now...
<malc>
it apears so
<Cerebrum>
Does Ocaml have any mechanism to use multi processor machines?
<malc>
MPI libraries are there, and new language/calculus Jocaml is being developed precisely for this
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<Cerebrum>
will Jocaml be compatible with Ocaml?
<malc>
its a derived language with slightly differnt goal and problem domain (at least thats how i see things)
<Cerebrum>
Do you know about SISAL?
<malc>
Yes. Its dead.
<Cerebrum>
Hmm...according to the info I read it was able to produce faster code than Fortran...Can Ocaml do the same?
<malc>
Hardly
<Cerebrum>
So Sisal was superior in that aspect...
<Cerebrum>
But why is it dead? I suppose I can get the compiler for Sisal somewhere?
<malc>
Yes, there was/is a project on sf.net somewhere
<malc>
Try checking out SAC(SISAL sibling of sorts)
<Cerebrum>
Why can't Ocaml produce code as good as Sisal? Aren't both the same kind of language(functional)? What was special in Sisal to let it produce that good code?
<malc>
For one thing SISAL was created with number crunching in mind, and OCaml was not.
<Cerebrum>
ok
<Cerebrum>
(I wonder why they let Sisal die... it hurts me as a programmer...)
<malc>
Cant say
<Cerebrum>
Another think: how can I make a GUI with Ocaml? I would like it to be portable to both Windows and Linux.
<malc>
You have 3 choices here
<malc>
Tk interface
<malc>
Gtk interface
<malc>
+ some dude recently anounced Win32 GDI bindings on the mailing list
<malc>
and there are X bindings
<malc>
so you can hack your own GUI lib
<Cerebrum>
Which of those are cross platform? I think Tk and Gtk are, right?
<malc>
yep
<Cerebrum>
Ok. What is your own background in programming?
<malc>
Now this starting to sound like interrogation
<Cerebrum>
Ok sorry...
<Cerebrum>
I'm just curious...because I want to collect some information before I start to learn another programming language
<malc>
And how my background can help you in making decision?
<Cerebrum>
Because after knowing your background I would ask you what you think of Ocaml. It is good to know what experience you have in programming...but its not necessary of course...
<Cerebrum>
So what do you think of Ocaml?
<malc>
I like it. Very much
<Cerebrum>
Is it the only functional language that has imperative elements?
<malc>
nope
<malc>
SML'97(mosml,mlkit,sml/nj,mlton) is also equiped
<Cerebrum>
Do you think that the imperative elements are one of the BIG advantages of Ocaml?
<malc>
BIG advantages over what?
<Cerebrum>
Big advantages over other functional languages
<malc>
other functional languages(Haskel,Clean,Miranda) are too different
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<Cerebrum>
So why did you choose Ocaml? Is it your first language?
<Cerebrum>
Hello zorb
<zorb>
hi
<malc>
No, i dont think its even inthe first ten
<Cerebrum>
hey zorb, I'm trying to decide on a new language to learn
* Cerebrum
is deciding if he wants to learn Ocaml...
<zorb>
I noticed you may have haskell on your list of choices.
<Cerebrum>
zorb: correct
<zorb>
hmm.
<zorb>
I dunno.
<Cerebrum>
zorb I was impressed about that Haskell info on one site where they compared development types of different languages
<Cerebrum>
...It was about making a project for the navy...AEGIS system
<zorb>
em. developement types?
<Cerebrum>
development TIMES sorry
<zorb>
ah.
<malc>
oh gee that old paper
<Cerebrum>
hehe
<Cerebrum>
what do you say to that malc?
<zorb>
yeah. Haskell (or even ocaml) probably have great development times.
<malc>
that the task did outline some nice aspects of Haskell
<Cerebrum>
malc: since you seem to know a lot of languages...how would you rate Ocaml in that list?
<zorb>
(I dont know any stats sorry)
<malc>
but it was really a toy task.. uni assignment if you wish
<malc>
OCaml is practical
<malc>
Haskell,Clean fall into interesting category
<zorb>
me admittedly has to agree with malc on this. Haskell, is nice but, I'm afraid its more "exploratory"
<Cerebrum>
malc: can you program in Haskell and Clean also?
<Cerebrum>
zorb: do you know Ocaml also?
<malc>
not really, i wouldnt clame that
<Cerebrum>
you mean claim, right?
<malc>
sigh, yeah
<malc>
almost 6:00 here
<Cerebrum>
6:00 a.m. ?
<Cerebrum>
23:44 here... :)
<zorb>
Cerebrum. I have looked at ocaml, can kinda parse it (its syntax isn't all that diff from haskell).
<zorb>
but no, can't say I've programmed anything above "hello world."
<Cerebrum>
do you think that Ocaml has also a good development time? Is this common to all functional languages?
<zorb>
in ocaml
<malc>
yes
<malc>
excellent tool for rapid prototyping
<zorb>
I believe it is good because of so many abstractions that are avaible.
<zorb>
eh.
<zorb>
available
<Cerebrum>
And do you think that this is common to all functional languages?
<Cerebrum>
zorb: do you know Sisal?
<zorb>
well, I guess that depends on what you consider a functional langauge.
<malc>
if you like it then yes, if you dont then no
<malc>
and yeah functional is a bit too broad
<zorb>
Cerebrum, no I dont.
<Cerebrum>
malc: So from the over 10 languages you can program...which one can you develop the fastest?
<Cerebrum>
...in which one...
<malc>
from the over = from the other?
<Cerebrum>
No, from the OVER
<malc>
OCaml
<Cerebrum>
I mean from all your languages..including Ocaml
<Cerebrum>
SO I suppose your preferred language is Ocaml?
<malc>
yes
<Cerebrum>
Hmmm hahaha
<Cerebrum>
I'm laughing because when I asked how you rate Ocaml you just answered "Ocaml is practical"
<malc>
and?
<Cerebrum>
well... I think you could have said something more like: I think its the best language..etc...
<Cerebrum>
"practical" is very vague
<Cerebrum>
Almost every language is practical in some sense
<malc>
and 'best language' suddenly narrows it all down?
<Cerebrum>
Yes
<Cerebrum>
It narrows down your point of view
<malc>
Well im hate to disappoint you but its not the best language
<Cerebrum>
If I know you master 10+ languages and think Ocaml is the best...this is a big weight in my decision to invest TIME into it
<zorb>
to say what is best, you have to have an ordering procedure.
<Cerebrum>
malc: ok, which one is the best?
<malc>
Cerebrum: X
<Cerebrum>
zorb: your answer is absolutely correct
<Cerebrum>
malc: X ???
<malc>
Cerebrum: yep
<Cerebrum>
Never heard of that? Is this really a language?
* zorb
's stumped
* Cerebrum
too
<zorb>
maybe malc is getting Zen on us :)
<Cerebrum>
Are you speaking of X-Windows? :))
<Cerebrum>
Hmm you mean X as a variable?
<malc>
Long ago i asked my math teacher how many proofs to Pythagoras theorem exist, he answered n+1
<Cerebrum>
X := bestLanguage(Ordering procedure Y)
<malc>
im copycating his irresponsible behavior
<Cerebrum>
hahahaha
<zorb>
ah. so you WERE zening out on us!
<zorb>
(not that zen is a verb)
<Cerebrum>
Hmm there is something called a ZENER DIODE
<malc>
There is also something called sleep deprivation, so i bid you all farewel and go back to my cave
<malc>
ta-ta
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<Cerebrum>
malc: now I would be interested: which languages do you know?
<Cerebrum>
ok...bye
<zorb>
Actually I was thinking about some of those weird paradoxical writings of zin monks in Douglas Hodstaffers (sp?) Godel, Echer, Bach
<Cerebrum>
he left...
<zorb>
yeah.
<Cerebrum>
Do you know if there is an online link to that famous Goedel, Escher, Bach theorem?
<zorb>
your confused. there is only the Goedel theorem :)
<Cerebrum>
whatever...but I found something on Google already hehe
<Cerebrum>
those search machines are really great
* zorb
loves google.
* Cerebrum
too
<Cerebrum>
Well...why don't you switch over to ocaml, since you recognize that Haskell is more exploratory?
<zorb>
well, because I'm still not done exploring Haskell :)
<zorb>
I plan to stick with it for a while.
<zorb>
I hope it matures and gets a decent following.
<zorb>
as in bigger than it is now.
<zorb>
(how much? I dont know)
<zorb>
and frankly, Haskell has much more offer (in my opinion, mind you other ocamlers!)
<Cerebrum>
Ok, what does Haskell offer in advantage?
<zorb>
or maybe I should say, "The future of haskell" has more to offer.
<Cerebrum>
ohh...ok
<zorb>
I think it needs more evolving.
<Cerebrum>
After I found out about functional languages I suddenly realized how narrowminded most Projects are
<zorb>
it needs more easy ways to control its inherent lazyness.
<Cerebrum>
Most use C or C++ and thats it
<zorb>
um? whats wrong with that?
<Cerebrum>
Whats wrong?
<zorb>
I'm confused.
<zorb>
how are they narrowminded?
<zorb>
(the projects)
<Cerebrum>
Well... AFAIK functional languages have already proved to be superior in some aspects. So why is nobodyusing them?
<Cerebrum>
Narrowminded in respect to choosing a programming language
<zorb>
Polotics is a very good reason.
<zorb>
If i could spell that word right.
* zorb
digs up ispell.
<zorb>
I mean, you want to have a project that your professor can understand.
<Cerebrum>
NOooooooo
<zorb>
?
<Cerebrum>
I mean projects like those Open source projects on SourceForge.net
<zorb>
oooh.
<zorb>
I see.
<Cerebrum>
Most of them use C/C++/Java
<Cerebrum>
I was on the same line of thinking
<Cerebrum>
Until I realized that Functional languages might give an advantage
<Cerebrum>
I asked you about Sisal.
<zorb>
They're more popular. :/
<Cerebrum>
Well...
<Cerebrum>
Sisal is a functional language that was able to generate faster code than any Fortran compiler..but it is DEAD now
<zorb>
AH!
<Cerebrum>
Dead although technical superior
<zorb>
I was right, in my mind i remember it being paired with fortran somehow.
<zorb>
people are dead set in their ways.
<zorb>
I was like you.
<zorb>
I wanted to learn every FP language that was out there.
<zorb>
then I realized my head was to small to learn them all to the degree I wanted.
<zorb>
so now I'm kinda stuck on haskell.
<zorb>
sure. clean has uniqueness types, mercury has unification like prolog, x has y, whatever.
<zorb>
I had to make a decision and now my decision is to stick with Haskell.
<zorb>
(just like fortran programmers decide to stay with fortran)
<Cerebrum>
Thats the reason why I'm trying to decide which language I should learn...
<zorb>
(i presume)
<Cerebrum>
I liked about Sisal that it was so fast.
<Cerebrum>
If I had the time and resources I would try to make it live again
<zorb>
yeah
<Cerebrum>
Ok...I'm leaving now...cya
<zorb>
later
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<scipient>
wow, that's more traffic than i've ever seen in here :)
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<Yurik>
re
<smkl>
hello
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