jemfinch` changed the topic of #ocaml to: nob: it's not an option keyword. It's a datatype. 'a option. It can be either "None" or "Some data" -- it represents either data that's not there (None) or data that's there (Some data)
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<jfdklajfl> hi
<malc> lo
jfdklajfl is now known as Cerebrum
<Cerebrum> I'm new to Ocaml...the site is down right now...
<malc> it apears so
<Cerebrum> Does Ocaml have any mechanism to use multi processor machines?
<malc> MPI libraries are there, and new language/calculus Jocaml is being developed precisely for this
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<Cerebrum> will Jocaml be compatible with Ocaml?
<malc> its a derived language with slightly differnt goal and problem domain (at least thats how i see things)
<Cerebrum> Do you know about SISAL?
<malc> Yes. Its dead.
<Cerebrum> Hmm...according to the info I read it was able to produce faster code than Fortran...Can Ocaml do the same?
<malc> Hardly
<Cerebrum> So Sisal was superior in that aspect...
<Cerebrum> But why is it dead? I suppose I can get the compiler for Sisal somewhere?
<malc> Yes, there was/is a project on sf.net somewhere
<malc> Try checking out SAC(SISAL sibling of sorts)
<Cerebrum> Why can't Ocaml produce code as good as Sisal? Aren't both the same kind of language(functional)? What was special in Sisal to let it produce that good code?
<malc> For one thing SISAL was created with number crunching in mind, and OCaml was not.
<Cerebrum> ok
<Cerebrum> (I wonder why they let Sisal die... it hurts me as a programmer...)
<malc> Cant say
<Cerebrum> Another think: how can I make a GUI with Ocaml? I would like it to be portable to both Windows and Linux.
<malc> You have 3 choices here
<malc> Tk interface
<malc> Gtk interface
<malc> + some dude recently anounced Win32 GDI bindings on the mailing list
<malc> and there are X bindings
<malc> so you can hack your own GUI lib
<Cerebrum> Which of those are cross platform? I think Tk and Gtk are, right?
<malc> yep
<Cerebrum> Ok. What is your own background in programming?
<malc> Now this starting to sound like interrogation
<Cerebrum> Ok sorry...
<Cerebrum> I'm just curious...because I want to collect some information before I start to learn another programming language
<malc> And how my background can help you in making decision?
<Cerebrum> Because after knowing your background I would ask you what you think of Ocaml. It is good to know what experience you have in programming...but its not necessary of course...
<Cerebrum> So what do you think of Ocaml?
<malc> I like it. Very much
<Cerebrum> Is it the only functional language that has imperative elements?
<malc> nope
<malc> SML'97(mosml,mlkit,sml/nj,mlton) is also equiped
<Cerebrum> Do you think that the imperative elements are one of the BIG advantages of Ocaml?
<malc> BIG advantages over what?
<Cerebrum> Big advantages over other functional languages
<malc> other functional languages(Haskel,Clean,Miranda) are too different
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<Cerebrum> So why did you choose Ocaml? Is it your first language?
<Cerebrum> Hello zorb
<zorb> hi
<malc> No, i dont think its even inthe first ten
<Cerebrum> hey zorb, I'm trying to decide on a new language to learn
* Cerebrum is deciding if he wants to learn Ocaml...
<zorb> I noticed you may have haskell on your list of choices.
<Cerebrum> zorb: correct
<zorb> hmm.
<zorb> I dunno.
<Cerebrum> zorb I was impressed about that Haskell info on one site where they compared development types of different languages
<Cerebrum> ...It was about making a project for the navy...AEGIS system
<zorb> em. developement types?
<Cerebrum> development TIMES sorry
<zorb> ah.
<malc> oh gee that old paper
<Cerebrum> hehe
<Cerebrum> what do you say to that malc?
<zorb> yeah. Haskell (or even ocaml) probably have great development times.
<malc> that the task did outline some nice aspects of Haskell
<Cerebrum> malc: since you seem to know a lot of languages...how would you rate Ocaml in that list?
<zorb> (I dont know any stats sorry)
<malc> but it was really a toy task.. uni assignment if you wish
<malc> OCaml is practical
<malc> Haskell,Clean fall into interesting category
<zorb> me admittedly has to agree with malc on this. Haskell, is nice but, I'm afraid its more "exploratory"
<Cerebrum> malc: can you program in Haskell and Clean also?
<Cerebrum> zorb: do you know Ocaml also?
<malc> not really, i wouldnt clame that
<Cerebrum> you mean claim, right?
<malc> sigh, yeah
<malc> almost 6:00 here
<Cerebrum> 6:00 a.m. ?
<Cerebrum> 23:44 here... :)
<zorb> Cerebrum. I have looked at ocaml, can kinda parse it (its syntax isn't all that diff from haskell).
<zorb> but no, can't say I've programmed anything above "hello world."
<Cerebrum> do you think that Ocaml has also a good development time? Is this common to all functional languages?
<zorb> in ocaml
<malc> yes
<malc> excellent tool for rapid prototyping
<zorb> I believe it is good because of so many abstractions that are avaible.
<zorb> eh.
<zorb> available
<Cerebrum> And do you think that this is common to all functional languages?
<Cerebrum> zorb: do you know Sisal?
<zorb> well, I guess that depends on what you consider a functional langauge.
<malc> if you like it then yes, if you dont then no
<malc> and yeah functional is a bit too broad
<zorb> Cerebrum, no I dont.
<Cerebrum> malc: So from the over 10 languages you can program...which one can you develop the fastest?
<Cerebrum> ...in which one...
<malc> from the over = from the other?
<Cerebrum> No, from the OVER
<malc> OCaml
<Cerebrum> I mean from all your languages..including Ocaml
<Cerebrum> SO I suppose your preferred language is Ocaml?
<malc> yes
<Cerebrum> Hmmm hahaha
<Cerebrum> I'm laughing because when I asked how you rate Ocaml you just answered "Ocaml is practical"
<malc> and?
<Cerebrum> well... I think you could have said something more like: I think its the best language..etc...
<Cerebrum> "practical" is very vague
<Cerebrum> Almost every language is practical in some sense
<malc> and 'best language' suddenly narrows it all down?
<Cerebrum> Yes
<Cerebrum> It narrows down your point of view
<malc> Well im hate to disappoint you but its not the best language
<Cerebrum> If I know you master 10+ languages and think Ocaml is the best...this is a big weight in my decision to invest TIME into it
<zorb> to say what is best, you have to have an ordering procedure.
<Cerebrum> malc: ok, which one is the best?
<malc> Cerebrum: X
<Cerebrum> zorb: your answer is absolutely correct
<Cerebrum> malc: X ???
<malc> Cerebrum: yep
<Cerebrum> Never heard of that? Is this really a language?
* zorb 's stumped
* Cerebrum too
<zorb> maybe malc is getting Zen on us :)
<Cerebrum> Are you speaking of X-Windows? :))
<Cerebrum> Hmm you mean X as a variable?
<malc> Long ago i asked my math teacher how many proofs to Pythagoras theorem exist, he answered n+1
<Cerebrum> X := bestLanguage(Ordering procedure Y)
<malc> im copycating his irresponsible behavior
<Cerebrum> hahahaha
<zorb> ah. so you WERE zening out on us!
<zorb> (not that zen is a verb)
<Cerebrum> Hmm there is something called a ZENER DIODE
<malc> There is also something called sleep deprivation, so i bid you all farewel and go back to my cave
<malc> ta-ta
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<Cerebrum> malc: now I would be interested: which languages do you know?
<Cerebrum> ok...bye
<zorb> Actually I was thinking about some of those weird paradoxical writings of zin monks in Douglas Hodstaffers (sp?) Godel, Echer, Bach
<Cerebrum> he left...
<zorb> yeah.
<Cerebrum> Do you know if there is an online link to that famous Goedel, Escher, Bach theorem?
<zorb> your confused. there is only the Goedel theorem :)
<Cerebrum> whatever...but I found something on Google already hehe
<Cerebrum> those search machines are really great
* zorb loves google.
* Cerebrum too
<Cerebrum> Well...why don't you switch over to ocaml, since you recognize that Haskell is more exploratory?
<zorb> well, because I'm still not done exploring Haskell :)
<zorb> I plan to stick with it for a while.
<zorb> I hope it matures and gets a decent following.
<zorb> as in bigger than it is now.
<zorb> (how much? I dont know)
<zorb> and frankly, Haskell has much more offer (in my opinion, mind you other ocamlers!)
<Cerebrum> Ok, what does Haskell offer in advantage?
<zorb> or maybe I should say, "The future of haskell" has more to offer.
<Cerebrum> ohh...ok
<zorb> I think it needs more evolving.
<Cerebrum> After I found out about functional languages I suddenly realized how narrowminded most Projects are
<zorb> it needs more easy ways to control its inherent lazyness.
<Cerebrum> Most use C or C++ and thats it
<zorb> um? whats wrong with that?
<Cerebrum> Whats wrong?
<zorb> I'm confused.
<zorb> how are they narrowminded?
<zorb> (the projects)
<Cerebrum> Well... AFAIK functional languages have already proved to be superior in some aspects. So why is nobodyusing them?
<Cerebrum> Narrowminded in respect to choosing a programming language
<zorb> Polotics is a very good reason.
<zorb> If i could spell that word right.
* zorb digs up ispell.
<zorb> I mean, you want to have a project that your professor can understand.
<Cerebrum> NOooooooo
<zorb> ?
<Cerebrum> I mean projects like those Open source projects on SourceForge.net
<zorb> oooh.
<zorb> I see.
<Cerebrum> Most of them use C/C++/Java
<Cerebrum> I was on the same line of thinking
<Cerebrum> Until I realized that Functional languages might give an advantage
<Cerebrum> I asked you about Sisal.
<zorb> They're more popular. :/
<Cerebrum> Well...
<Cerebrum> Sisal is a functional language that was able to generate faster code than any Fortran compiler..but it is DEAD now
<zorb> AH!
<Cerebrum> Dead although technical superior
<zorb> I was right, in my mind i remember it being paired with fortran somehow.
<zorb> people are dead set in their ways.
<zorb> I was like you.
<zorb> I wanted to learn every FP language that was out there.
<zorb> then I realized my head was to small to learn them all to the degree I wanted.
<zorb> so now I'm kinda stuck on haskell.
<zorb> sure. clean has uniqueness types, mercury has unification like prolog, x has y, whatever.
<zorb> I had to make a decision and now my decision is to stick with Haskell.
<zorb> (just like fortran programmers decide to stay with fortran)
<Cerebrum> Thats the reason why I'm trying to decide which language I should learn...
<zorb> (i presume)
<Cerebrum> I liked about Sisal that it was so fast.
<Cerebrum> If I had the time and resources I would try to make it live again
<zorb> yeah
<Cerebrum> Ok...I'm leaving now...cya
<zorb> later
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<scipient> wow, that's more traffic than i've ever seen in here :)
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<Yurik> re
<smkl> hello
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