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<reltuk>
anyone down with ocaml internals? :-p
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<gl>
gnii, wrong chan
<Banana>
tiens Alain____
* gl
&
<Alain____>
Bonjour Banana
<Banana>
(kim)
<Alain____>
Ah
<gl>
c'est la sequence emotion de la journee sur #ocaml
<Alain____>
<< According to one of cduce developper : "Ocaml is a very good assembly language" :D >>
<Alain____>
Ahem
<Alain____>
Found on google
<Banana>
c'est moi ca ?
<Alain____>
yep
<Banana>
ben ecoute c'est ce que t'as dit.
<Banana>
assume.
<Alain____>
je ne nie pas
<Alain____>
j'assume
<Alain____>
c'est un canal francophone, au fait ?
<gl>
du tout
<Banana>
no.
<Alain____>
je me disais
<Alain____>
gl = ?
<gl>
le truc c'est qu'il y a pas mal d'americains, donc les horaires de discussions sont vraiment decales et y'a peu de ercouvrement
<gl>
gl = un camarade d'ecole de kim
<Banana>
voila.
<Banana>
t'es pas le fondateur du canal aussi ?
<Alain____>
alors Kim ça avance le boulot ;-) ?
<Banana>
bien sur.
<Banana>
j'ai plein d'idees
<Alain____>
cool
<gl>
non, le fondateur c'est smkl (qui n'est pas la), mais je fais partie des premiers ouais :)
<Banana>
et je pense que je te bas sur les syntaxes foireuses.
<gl>
on etait 3, le monde etait a nous
<Alain____>
je doute, Kim
<Alain____>
j'ai plusieurs années d'experience en syntaxe foireuse
<Banana>
ben ecoute apres C[p] j'ai pense mettre C{p} pour la version qui renvoie la liste des noeuds.
<Alain____>
pas mal
<Alain____>
pourquoi pas C}p{
<Alain____>
ca en jette plus
<gl>
pourquoi ne pas utiliser des kanji tant que vous y etes ?
<Banana>
on peut.
<Banana>
c'est de l'utf8.
<Alain____>
ah ben oui, vu que les sources peuvent etre en utf8
<gl>
berk.
<Alain____>
ou alors C]p[
<Banana>
je pensais a C{{p}}
<Alain____>
ça me fait penser à un prof qui se vante de "programmer avec Word"
<Banana>
houla.
<Alain____>
c'est à dire qu'il code dans Word
<Alain____>
comme ca il peut mettre de la couleur
<Alain____>
et puis il exporte en txt pour le passer au compilateur
<Alain____>
grandiose
<Banana>
ouai j'ai des eleves en deusts qui utilisent openoffice pour faire du java.
<Banana>
mais ils exportent pas.
<Alain____>
ah ca s'ecrit comme ca deusts. je croyais que c'etait dust.
<Banana>
et ils se demande pourquoi le compilo leur dit invalid charcater \160
<Alain____>
c'est l'apostrophe microsoft ca, non ?
<Banana>
ou le guillement je sais plus.
<Banana>
guillemet.
<Banana>
bon aller je retourne a mes projections de documents XML.
<Banana>
le bonheur.
<Alain____>
oui c'est ça, au boulot !
<Alain____>
plus vite que ça
<Alain____>
:-)
<gl>
heureusement Banana est sur un canal secret interdit aux profs/chefs/superieurs hierarchiques, ou il peut se laisser aller a toutes sortes de digressions
<Banana>
faux.
<Banana>
je bosse.
<Banana>
chuis nul part.
<Alain____>
ahem, je suis ni prof, ni chercheur, ni superieur hierarchique de Kim, hein
<gl>
si tu bossais t'aurais pas repondu :)
<Banana>
pfff
<Banana>
c'est bas ca.
<gl>
Alain____ ouaip mais presque, quand meme, non ?
<gl>
c'est pire t'es un espion a la solde de giuseppe
<Banana>
ho...
<Banana>
tout de suite.
<Alain____>
je suis l'homme de l'ombre
<gl>
bon sur ce, j'ai du code prout proet en C a pondre
<Alain____>
ah la joie
<Banana>
ce qui est rigolo en espagnol.
<Alain____>
oui
<Banana>
(yo soy l'hombre de l'ombre ?).
<Banana>
bon allez ca suffit >_<
<Alain____>
quelqu'un parle russe au fait ?
<Banana>
non.
<Alain____>
il y a un log irc qui parle de CDuce, en russe, je voudrais savoir ce qu'ils racontent
<Banana>
pfff Alain____ t'as pas autre chose a faire ?
<Banana>
tout le monde en dit du bien de CDuce, evidement...
<Banana>
:)
<Alain____>
si, si, plein. c'est mon quart d'heure de détente. arf
<gl>
moi j'aime pas cduce
<gl>
par principe
<Alain____>
parce qu'il y a la lettre C dedans ?
<gl>
pire, parce que ca fait joujou avec le XML, que je vomis
<gl>
(cherchez pas la raison, c'est sentimental)
<Alain____>
n'essaie pas de me faire défendre XML
<Alain____>
c'est tout pourri
<gl>
(j'ai du faire un parseur xml en C pure, quand j'etais jeune)
<gl>
-e
<Alain____>
comme dit Wadler, XML, c'est un problème facile et une mauvaise solution
<gl>
\o/
<karryall>
arf pas mal
<Alain____>
faut que je me remette aux smileys, ca fait trop longtemps que je suis plus sur irc, je me fais vieux
<Alain____>
c'est quoi \o/ ?
<gl>
un type qui leve les bras en signe de joie/victoire
<Alain____>
ok
<gl>
on peut faire mieux
<gl>
\o/
<gl>
^o^
<gl>
(o_
<gl>
/o\
<gl>
(Y M C A !)
<Alain____>
lol
<Alain____>
The essence of XML:
<Alain____>
The problem it solves is not hard.
<Alain____>
It doesn't solve it very well.
<Alain____>
P. Wadler (The Essence of XML - POPL 2003)
<Alain____>
pour la reference exacte
<gl>
=)
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<Alain____>
<< XDuce ou CDuce est une tentative de réécriture de xml sous forme de blocs entre crochets avec quelques instructions de traitement - un retour en arrière >>
<Alain____>
on trouve n'importe quoi sur le web...
<karryall>
:)
<gl>
haha pas mal
<gl>
Scriptol est destiné à évoluer pour fournir, à coté des classes, d'autres structures de haut niveau et rapprocher la programmation de la pensée.
<gl>
"le meilleur langage du monde" etc
<Alain____>
arf
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<Banana>
rholala
<Banana>
c'est superbe.
<Banana>
le XML, une alternative a .NET
<Banana>
j'aime quand les gens se lachent sans filets comme ca.
<Alain____>
toujours Scriptol ?
<Banana>
ouai, je viens de lire.
<Banana>
pendant ma pause cafe.
<Banana>
chuis encore mort de rire.
<Alain____>
j'ai vu le titre d'un article "ASN1: une alternative à XML"
<Alain____>
ca fait un peu anachronique
<Banana>
un peu oui.
<Banana>
par contre je vois pas en quoi etre un langage objet fait que t'es "proche de la pensee".
<Banana>
mais bon.
<Banana>
il pense peut etre bizarement.
<det>
le vas nos geu!
<Alain____>
c'est un esprit surchargé, encapsulé, et tardif ?
<Banana>
;)
<Banana>
(je pense qu'on gene...)
<karryall>
det: ??
<karryall>
vas falloir creer un #ocamlfr ...
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<drWorm>
i have a feeling i'm losing out on an interesting discussion :)
<reltuk>
hah, me too
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<lucifer>
babelfish to the rescue :)
<reltuk>
hah, good idea
* reltuk
wonders why #haskell has more members than us
<vegai>
it's pop
<reltuk>
I see ocaml used for more things...
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<Banana>
just that ocaml programmers are busy working. haskell users are kiddies ideling on irc
<reltuk>
hah
<Banana>
;)
<Banana>
</troll>
<Banana>
</joke>
<reltuk>
of course :)
* vegai
throws an Arrow at Banana's general direction.
<Banana>
(as it seems that evrithing that i say here can be used against me...)
<Banana>
everything.
<Banana>
whoo vegai.
<Banana>
almost go me.
<Banana>
got.
<vegai>
you're lucky I don't understand Arrows ;P
<Banana>
:)
<slashvar[lri]>
vegai: Arrows aren't to be understand, the only thing that you have to know is that it's dangerous in real life and usefull in fp ;)
<shrimpx>
haha
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<mattam>
is it possible to specify some type constraint inside a module like one do for set but at deeper levels ? e.g, with set: Set.S with type elt = int. i want to do : A.S with E.t = int
<mattam>
ok, i can specify that, but if i 'include' a module A and want to restrict it label i get syntax errors
<mattam>
oh nm, the type i'm trying to constraint can't be
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<LittleDa1>
Is it possible to implement something that is polymorphic in the way that = is within OCaml or does it cheat?
<Smerdyakov>
It cheats.
<LittleDa1>
why?
<LittleDa1>
why not just make it like all of the other infix operators?
<LittleDa1>
and have multiple things for different types
<Banana>
then you couldn't have a generic sort fonction for exemple which take 2 lists and a comparison function and return a sorted list.
<Banana>
you need polymorphism at some point.
<LittleDa1>
So why can't that be done with user-defined things?
<Banana>
like what ?
<Banana>
you mean why can't some one write = in pure ocaml ?
<LittleDa1>
like a polymorphic string_of function (analogous to show in haskell)
<LittleDa1>
why can't you do that?
<Banana>
because you don't have overloading.
<LittleDa1>
But then what's =?
<Banana>
(which you have in HaskellO
<Banana>
)
<Banana>
it's a hack.
<Banana>
with overloading you loose type inference.
<LittleDa1>
no you don't
<Banana>
yes you do.
<LittleDa1>
you just have to introduce typeclasses
<Banana>
you need to annotate your programm with type informations at some point,
<LittleDa1>
Haskell has type inference
<LittleDa1>
oh, you mean defining the typeclass
<Banana>
but i'm aware that ocaml's design seems a bit rough.
<Banana>
but it's unlikely that the type system will change to allow such things.
<Banana>
(besides, there are side effects in caml, i don't know how this would interract with those features).
<LittleDa1>
I don't see why it would
<Banana>
e.g : let l = ref [];;
<Banana>
it has type '_a list ref and not 'a list ref.
<LittleDa1>
oh, I didn't konw you were talking about references in particular
<Banana>
when you use imperative features, you have to put restrictions on some typing rules.
<LittleDa1>
why is it '_a list ref and not 'a list ref?
<Banana>
'_a is a so called weak type variable.
<Banana>
it means that the value is monomorphic but that we don't know at this point which type it has.
<LittleDa1>
I know, but why do you need it to not be 'a?
<LittleDa1>
you don't know what type 'a has either, do you?
<Banana>
'a in a type means "forall a"
<Banana>
like ' =' has type 'a -> 'a -> bool
<LittleDa1>
so why does it have to be monomorphic?
<Banana>
you read "forall 'a, 'a -> 'a -> bool".
<LittleDa1>
But why do you need to make ref [] monomorphic and [] polymorphic? Are references inherently monomorphic?
<Banana>
because when you add something to your list, say with l:= 1::[];;
<Banana>
then it's type become know.
<Banana>
the fact is that in ocaml, a value has only ONE type from the moment it's created until the moment it becomes unreachable.
<Banana>
the typesystem comes originaly from a lighter one, know as "simply typed lambda calculus".
<Banana>
which is purely functionnal.
<Banana>
so you have to be carefull when typing side-effects expressions.