systems changed the topic of #ocaml to: OCaml 3.07 ! -- Archive of Caml Weekly News: http://pauillac.inria.fr/~aschmitt/cwn , A tutorial: http://merjis.com/richj/computers/ocaml/tutorial/ , A free book: http://cristal.inria.fr/~remy/cours/appsem, Mailing List (best ml ever for any computer language): http://caml.inria.fr/bin/wilma/caml-list
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<mr_underhill> hey guys
<Banana> yop mr_underhill.
<mr_underhill> hey babnana
<mr_underhill> how are you doing?
<Banana> hum i'm going to build a cable for my wifi antenna.
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<mr_underhill> :)
<mr_underhill> cool!
<mr_underhill> :-D
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<phj> How to use thread module?
<phj> Can it be used in toplevel?
<Banana> i don't know if you can.
<Banana> i tried to make a custom toplevel but it doesn't seem to work..
<Banana> stay tuned, i'm trying something.
<mr_underhill> :)
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<Banana> phj: ok i got it.
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<phj> Can't it be running in toplevel?
<Banana> i think it can.
<Banana> i'm testing it, hang on.
<phj> then ,how to
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<Banana> phj: ok here it is.
<Banana> firt you have to create a custom toplevel :
<Banana> ocamlmktop -o mythreadedtoplevel -thread unix.cma threads.cma
<Banana> then you launch it with :
<Banana> ./mymythreadedtoplevel -I +threads
<Banana> and the Thread modules and other are available.
<phj> let me try it.
<Banana> (it's mymythreadedtoplevel, not mymy of course :) )
<Banana> arf
<Banana> mythreadedtoplevel dammit.
<phj> Banana: Where do you found the material on this?
<Banana> hum, some previous knowledge (I did this once, just couldn't remember how :) and googlising a bit.
<Banana> and lablgtk makefile too.
<Banana> they provide a command line to create a threaded toplevel to test gtk apps in the toplevel.
<phj> Banana: thanks
<Banana> you're welcome.
<Banana> i've seen this question here already... maybe it would be a good thing to add it in the faq or the manual.
<phj> maybe it's me who asked this question before,
<phj> but I forgot
<Banana> maybe it's me who answered the first time :)))
<Banana> but i forgot too.
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<phj> Isn't Thread.kill implemented on win32 platform ?
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<Banana> hum...
<Banana> it should.
<Banana> are you using a native windows version or th cygwin one ?
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<phj> Banana: I'm using cygwin one
<Banana> hum...
<Banana> strange.
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<phj> How to get system time ?
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<basti_> is something know about an ocamlopt problem in debian?
<basti_> i'm citing my system:
<basti_> gate:~/coq-8.0# ocamlopt -v
<basti_> gate:~/coq-8.0#
<basti_> this is just one symptom... i'm trying to compile coq but it won't cos ocamlopt doesnt react.
<mellum> works for me[tm]
<basti_> mh
<basti_> i compiled ocaml myself last time i compiled coq (version 7.something)
<basti_> guess i'll just do that again
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<basti_> "make" - "configure" was painless...
<phj> I created a thread which is named tt
<phj> # tt;;
<phj> - : Thread.t = <abstr>
<phj> # Thread.kill tt;;
<phj> Exception: Invalid_argument "Thread.kill: not implemented".
<phj> what's the matter with it?
<phj> I'm running ocaml on win32 platform with cygwin
<phj> ocaml-3.07
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<malte> hm, shouldnt there exist a caml subdir in /usr/include (i'm running gentoo)
<bk_> /usr/lib/ocaml/
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<malte> bk_, ah, thx
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<Xcalibor> greetings
<basti_> hi Xcal
<Xcalibor> hiyas
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<Xcalibor> time for bed, laters!
<malte> 'night
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<Tram> I know that I already asked for it (maybe someone will be inspired tonight)...
<Tram> what about udp multicasting within ocaml?
<Tram> the official doc doesn't speaks about it...
<Riastradh> You'll probably have to use the C FFI and write your own wrapper over BSD sockets.
<Riastradh> ...er, did you look through the Humps yet?
<Tram> Riastradh: I hadn't that reflex... I went throug google with no succes
<Tram> I think that I'll use C, but I'm realy used to wrappers :/
<Anvil_Vapre> I know this might sound like a silly question, so I apologize in advance - I'm an ocaml newbie - how low to the hardware can one get with O'Caml? Would it be possible to write kernel code with it? has anyone tried?
<Tram> anyway, thank you :)
<Riastradh> What do you mean by 'can one get?'
<Anvil_Vapre> would it be possible to write an os in ocaml instead of c.
<Anvil_Vapre> for security reasons
<Riastradh> There's nothing built-in to OCaml for communicating with hardware directly, but nor is there in C; however, just as you could link your C program to OSKit or something, you could write a wrapper over OSKit for OCaml.
<smimou> IIRC there was a linux kernel written in OCaml
<smimou> it's still in the hump but the link is broken
<Anvil_Vapre> smimou - do you have a link?
<Anvil_Vapre> oh.
<smimou> anyway it would be terribly slow
<Anvil_Vapre> would it? I was told ocaml performance was pretty comparable to c.
<smimou> not for such kinds of things
<smimou> the GC would slow the whole system
<smimou> also the values are boxed
<Anvil_Vapre> hrmm...that sucks.
<smimou> for most high level applications performance is comparable to C
<denshi> why is that, exactly?
<Anvil_Vapre> are there any other languages like ocaml that could do it?
<smimou> don't know but I don't think so
<smimou> caml is pretty cool because you don't have to manage memory and because of the typing
<Anvil_Vapre> can the garbage collector be turned off or customized?
<denshi> Anvil_Vapre: languages are all turing-equivalent. you can write an OS with any of them, just choose your pain.
<Riastradh> What do you mean 'that could do it?'
<smimou> but for an OS kernel you can do much more efficiently by handling the memory by yourself
<smimou> and by making ugly casts
<Riastradh> smimou, in what places in a kernel would manually managing memory be faster than using garbage collection?
<Anvil_Vapre> by 'that can do it' I mean a language that would be capable of handling the demands of kernel code while remaining type safe, have a syntax that made formal analysis of code somewhat practical, and still have decent performance
<Riastradh> Remember: malloc() is _not_ cheap. Allocation in a garbage-collected system _is_ cheap. With a moving garbage collector, you get locality, which _really_ helps minimize cache misses.
<Anvil_Vapre> so, Rastradh, you don't think the performance would be terrible?
<Riastradh> I think that you can't say.
<Anvil_Vapre> hrmm
<Riastradh> A kernel written in C could be three orders of magnitude slower than one written in OCaml, or the other way around; there are a _lot_ of factors you have to consider.
<Anvil_Vapre> what I'm thinking of doing is creating an os completely designed around security - incorporating the architectures of the mit exokernel and DEC's trusted VMS system.
<Anvil_Vapre> very very tiny kernel stripped of anything not related to security
<Anvil_Vapre> I want to use a language amenable to formal methods [i.e. something based on a mathematical system like lambda calc.]
<Anvil_Vapre> perhaps it's crazy, I'm just a freshman, but I'm looking for interesting projects to work on
<Riastradh> There's actually a fair bit of research in that area with Scheme -- the VLISP project, JAR's thesis, et cetera --, even though Scheme isn't statically typed.
<Anvil_Vapre> hrmm
<mattam> i think hOp (haskell OS) is related isn't it ?
<Anvil_Vapre> hrmm...could you give me some links?
<Riastradh> http://mumble.net/~jar/pubs/secureos/, though I'm afraid I don't know if VLISP has a web site.
<Anvil_Vapre> cool, thanks. I'll look it up once my dorm's internet connection gets fixed [I'm lucky I can get to IRC]
<Anvil_Vapre> do you know where I might find information about trusted VMS?
<Anvil_Vapre> is scheme related in any way to the ml family of languages
<Anvil_Vapre> ?
<Riastradh> Scheme is another functional language.
* Riastradh points at http://www.schemers.org/ & #scheme before he leaves to eat supper.
<Anvil_Vapre> ok, thanks a lot
<Anvil_Vapre> I appreciate it
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