mbishop changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | Grab Ocaml 3.10.0 from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html (featuring new camlp4 and more!)
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rwmjones changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | Grab Ocaml 3.10.1 from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html (featuring new camlp4 and more!)
<rwmjones> would it be bad form to advertise http://cocan.org/events/europe/ocamlmeetingparis2008 for the next couple of weeks in /topic?
<middayc> it seems good idea to me..
<middayc> will there be any videos of at least sound recording + slides after event on web?
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<middayc> I would love to see the lecture about Ocsigen
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<ttamttam> I think they are trying to. Would be nice.
<ttamttam> rwmjones: same answer as middayc for me
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<middayc> great.. if you make videos or sound a conference can be so more "useful" ... I am still looking various such videos from conferences from years back
<cap> middayc, where can i find those?
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<middayc> this is not years old, but right now I am looking this http://blip.tv/file/324976
<middayc> I really learned a lot about web development (not lang. related) by listening to FOWA archives which are available for few years back
<middayc> FOWA = Future Of Web Apps
<middayc> (not development, but bussines side.. comunity..scaling..etc)
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<jonafan> yay my youtubes are back online!
* jonafan throws the projects he's working on away
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<Snrrrub> Can someone confirm this: two functions in the same module cannot refer to each other (unless they're using that syntax that I can't remember off the top of my head) whereas two functions in different modules can?
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<pango> I don't confirm
<pango> functions from different modules can't refer directly to each other
<Snrrrub> They have to use the module name (and the functions must be exposed through their respective modules' interface)
<pango> you can only refer to things defined earlier, and modules can't both be defined before the other (short of using the experimental simultaneous and recursive modules definitions)
<Snrrrub> Ah, so there's an order imposed on module order too.
<Snrrrub> ...module loading order
<Snrrrub> The issue I'm having is the following: I have two functions that maintain shared state - one that updates the state variable and the other that maps the state to a function. The returned functions, however, need to update the state so I have a circular dependency. I'm not sure how one deals with that
<pango> modules do not only contain code, but values too; The semantic of module linking/loading is that it's the same as if their content was evaluated; You can't use values before they're evaluated; Hence there's an other on modules.
<pango> s/other/order/
<pango> if you can define both in the same module, you can use simultaneous definitions, putting the shared value in their environment (closures)
<pango> but that's just one way... I'm not sure what your problem really is
<Snrrrub> Yes, I've done that. Let me give some pseudo-code that shows what the issue is. I'm just going to pastebin it.
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<pango> yes, that's what I described
<Snrrrub> the issue, though, is that my_handler and my_other_handler refer to set_state while get_handler refers to the handlers
<Snrrrub> but I can't lexically separate set_state and get_handler
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<Snrrrub> Would it be better to create a class initialized with the handlers?
<pango> never used OCaml's OO, so I can't tell
<pango> it doesn't look much different
<Snrrrub> Hmmm, okay, thanks. I'm just starting out with OCaml so, honestly, I'm not confident with any solution I might come up with.
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<bluestorm> Snrrrub:
<bluestorm> if you want to keep the circular depency, you can use mutually recursive functions
<bluestorm> (that "syntax that i can't remember")
<bluestorm> let rec foo = .... and bar = ...
<bluestorm> ("and" is the key to mutuality)
<bluestorm> on the other hand you could break it by passing some of the functions as parameters to others
<Snrrrub> Yeah, but I'd like to distribute the handlers to different modules at some point in time which precludes that solution.
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<bluestorm> hm
<Snrrrub> bluestorm, hmm, that's a good point. For some reason, until you mentioned it, I always thought (for some unknown reason) that it would create more mutable state but it doesn't have to be mutable at all.
<bluestorm> i'm afraid the situation is a bit too abstract know, i don't really see the intended use
<Snrrrub> Basically I have an event loop. I have key/mouse handlers. I'm using a function to return the appropriate handlers to the event loop based on which page I'm on.
<Snrrrub> Think of a wizard: press "n" to go to the next page, press "b" to go to previous page. So each page has different handlers but I don't want the event loop to worry about that state information.
<bluestorm> (urgh, s/know/now/)
<bluestorm> Snrrrub: isn't that equivalent to "one event loop per page" ?
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<Snrrrub> Yes, except I don't want to rewrite the event loop and I'm not sure how to prevent that if I have an event loop per page...
<pango> maybe Ocsigen design (continuation-based web framework) could give you some ideas... http://www.ocsigen.org/
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<pango> (mmmh I think older documentation version was easier to grasp)
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<jonafan> so can you guys think of any way to make an irc client with a gui that doesn't involve shared mutable data between UI and socket threads?
<Smerdyakov> You can do anything in the pi calculus style, as you can simulate mutable variables and many other patterns.
<jonafan> that's awfully vague
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<jonafan> is it really possible? i don't understand how you can make these two threads communicate with each other
<jonafan> at times, the UI thread must be able to alter the way data coming from the socket is displayed
<Smerdyakov> Do you know anything about message passing, like pi calculus, CML, the Event module of the OCaml Threads library, etc.?
<jonafan> i'll look into the event module
<jonafan> interesting...
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<jonafan> tell me if i'm dumb: 1 thread listens to UI, 1 thread listens to socket, a 3rd thread listens for events from both?
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<Smerdyakov> That's one way of doing it.
<Smerdyakov> You really want to be doing this with lightweight threads, so that you can create thousands without trouble, associating one with each logical variable, etc..
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<jonafan> oh i think i see
<jonafan> i think
<Smerdyakov> You might like to get ahold of this book: http://www.amazon.com/Concurrent-Programming-ML-John-Reppy/dp/0521480892
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<jonafan> i'll get my boss to pay for this!
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