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<Yoric[DT]>
hi
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<cpfr>
hello
<mbishop>
Who was talking about the code from that GTK hello world stuff earlier? On reddit I added my code (which was more like what that person suggested earlier)
<cpfr>
not me
<mbishop>
I think it was middayc
<cpfr>
i just wanted to know how in ocaml i can encode a data structure that has 2 lists
<cpfr>
and encorces that they must be the same size
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<Yoric[DT]>
cpfr: I'd say hide this in a module and add a function "prefix_both" or something such that adds an element to each list.
<cpfr>
ooo i got it
<cpfr>
ill just make a list of tuples
<Yoric[DT]>
That's the other option.
<cpfr>
ok thanks
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<middayc>
I made some improvements to the 3rd version of SDLCaml examples...(I also added a scene record as some of you suggested).. if anyone looks and finds anything non-ocamlish he is welcome to tell me http://pastebin.be/8507
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<middayc>
my exp. is that it's the best to learn something by examples from very basic to slowly more advanced
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<Yoric[DT]>
Snark: my problem is that I have students working on what essentially amounts to type analysis -- but without any kind of formation on type analysis, on type systems or even on language manipulation.
<Yoric[DT]>
So they do have some difficulties.
<Snark>
same here with mathematics ;-)
<Yoric[DT]>
:)
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, a few years ago, I had to teach Semantics to people who had no idea about induction.
<Yoric[DT]>
That was somewhat tricky.
<Yoric[DT]>
Oh, and they didn't know about recursivity either.
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<Yoric[DT]>
hi again
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<middayc>
hi
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<asmanur>
middayc: by the way, why beginning OCaml with sdl programs ? I mean it's not what OCaml is the best for :p
<bluestorm>
asmanur: because they're sexy ?
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<asmanur>
bluestorm: the code isn't
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<Yoric[DT]>
Btw, just out of curiosity, who will be at the OCaml Developer Day ?
<bluestorm>
i should
<Yoric[DT]>
Me, too.
<bluestorm>
yes, i've seen that
<asmanur>
what's it ?
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, I don't know who you are so I have no clue about you :)
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, your kung-fu is faster than mine :)
<bluestorm>
would you be interested in a camlp4 library to generate locally-free variable names ?
<middayc>
I program for living (I make webapps, games and some bussines apps). This is my first venture into FP. So far whenever I tried a new language I thought of a concrete product that will come from my learning because I don't have time to write code "just" to learn. FP and OCaml are to different than other imperative langs I used so far so I decided that I won't start with a concrete project but..
<Yoric[DT]>
Reminds me of something I saw on the ML :)
<asmanur>
oh it's soon :p
<bluestorm>
:p
<middayc>
.. I will make small tutorials from my learning
<bluestorm>
asmanur: i'm afraid inscription are closed
<Yoric[DT]>
bluestorm: not at this very moment, but yeah, that does sound useful.
<middayc>
(this was response for asmanurs question above)
<asmanur>
middayc: I see, but you can do concrete project without using SDL :p
<middayc>
And I intend to use ocaml for games for starters...
<asmanur>
hum ok
<middayc>
SDL is just so I learn basics, I will move to opengl for real things
<middayc>
I am not really a comp. scientists as most of you here are
* Yoric[DT]
often feels less like a computer scientist than Tim Sweeney, most days.
<middayc>
I work more on aplication level (web-apps, desktop apps, games, online games) ... thats also why I feel realy stupid listening to you (because I don't understand half of the words)
<asmanur>
middayc: but, while writing game, imo you're spending too much time writing imperative code
<middayc>
..half of the time
<asmanur>
a*
<middayc>
well my goal is not "to write the functunal code" :)
<hcarty>
asmanur: But part of the fun/utility of OCaml is the ability to use whichever style fits
<asmanur>
hcarty: hum, i think it's more useful than fun
<hcarty>
I've found it to be both, but OCaml was my first trip in to FP as well
<pattern>
middayc, check out Elements of ML Programming by ullman.... it's one of the most instructive functional programming texts i've read
<pattern>
and the code is easily convertable to ocaml as you go along... which is what i did
<middayc>
well I am no scientist but a game has a lot of logic (algoritms) and a lot of IO.. IO is not functional by nature as I understand thats why haskellers have them in monads... but a bigger part is logic which I think can be written functional.. at least it should be if it is to say that FP is of any use in this case
<pattern>
cousineau & mauny's The Functional Approach to Programming was way too advanced for me... at least until i'd tackled ullman's book
<middayc>
pattern : thanks I will look it up
<Yoric[DT]>
middayc: do you know Tim Sweeney ?
<middayc>
basically it's all about a goals. I don't try to find a thing I could best write in FP, I try to use a concept where I could best write a product (a game in this case)
<middayc>
Yep ... he is the unreal engine guy
<middayc>
I mean I know who he is .. I don't know him :)
<middayc>
I have seen his future language slides many times, and his comments on LtU
<bluestorm>
:p
<bluestorm>
if you read LtU, i'd say you're "computer scientist" enough for OCaml
<bluestorm>
(the practice at least)
<middayc>
Well I just read the posts that I have clue what is going on
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, just to say that he has lots of ideas (plus he's willing to discuss them by mail).
<middayc>
you mean Tim S.?
<middayc>
Did he yet find (or is making) the pefect language... that power point presentation is 2 years old. (for those who don't know , he has some slides for POPL even where he showed that the future of AAA game programing is more functional, he had haskell as example but some features of it were not compatible with what he saw as the future - at least that is how I saw it)
<jonafan>
hey, is the state monad type supposed to be a function that returns a state and a value when given a state? and is the resulting state supposed to be the same type as the input state?
<Yoric[DT]>
middayc: I do mean him.
<Yoric[DT]>
middayc: and he isn't done yet.
<Yoric[DT]>
And it still seems to look like Haskell + dependent types (at least wrt integers).
<middayc>
Yoric: :)
<middayc>
then he is really making a language?
<Yoric[DT]>
At least it did when I asked him about it a few months ago :)
<middayc>
cool for you that you can chat with Tim Sweeney
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, I just sent him an e-mail and he answered.
<Yoric[DT]>
I have never met the guy.
<middayc>
cool , well I am not Yet at the level to send any such emails ;)
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<jonafan>
monads are pretty nifty
* Yoric[DT]
is trying -- again -- to get a working grasp of monads.
<Yoric[DT]>
This year, I've decided to teach these, so I'd better understand them first :)
<jonafan>
i think of them as intelligent compose functions
<jonafan>
but i am no monad genius by any means
<bluestorm>
Yoric[DT]: have you tried the Wadler's paper ? :p
<Yoric[DT]>
Yep, and it looks good.
<Yoric[DT]>
Just started, mind you.
<bluestorm>
jonafan: i'd say "function composition with added implicit behavior"
<Yoric[DT]>
Fresh from the printer about one hour ago.
<Yoric[DT]>
I believe that my main problem with monads is that I tried to learn them in Haskell.
<Yoric[DT]>
And Haskell has syntax to hide monads.
<bluestorm>
what i really liked is the beginning, with the example of "transformations"
<Yoric[DT]>
indeed
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<postalchris>
Anybody know how to get C-c C-t working in Ubuntu gutsy?
<postalchris>
(Um, I mean C-c C-t -> caml-types-show-type in Emacs+tuareg)
<postalchris>
This always used to work, before I upgraded to gutsy... It looks like the load path to caml-types.el got messed up...
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