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<ellisbben>
question: is the use of exceptions for e.g. breaking a loop accepted practice?
<Alpounet>
exceptions should be used in exceptional cases, IMO, but they are sometimes used that way.
<ellisbben>
I can agree with that principle.
<Alpounet>
My point is that if a library you may depend on uses this principle (an exception raised e.g when reaching the end of the file), then you have no choice... But I personnally wrap such exception usage in functions that handle that properly, so that I do not care anymore about this exception in the rest of the code.
<Alpounet>
If there isn't such stuffs in library you use, then I think you should keep yourself from using such practice.
<ellisbben>
right... I was mainly curious about the use of exceptions as non-local control structures
<ellisbben>
having heard that ocaml exceptions are reasonably fast
<Alpounet>
Exceptions may be used when a socket can't get connected to a server, e.g. In cases where the program ... well, would have hard to go on.
<Alpounet>
But that's my point of view, not anyone shares it.
<Alpounet>
ellisbben, from my point of view, using option is better.
<Alpounet>
(for example)
<ellisbben>
right, but that's for something that might give a value or might not
<ellisbben>
my use case is iterating through a queue and stopping partway under certain conditions
<Alpounet>
instead of raising End_of_file, your read function may return a string option... If it's Some s, then <do anything you want with s>, if it's None, then nothing to read anymore.
<ellisbben>
it's good to know about option... thank you.
<Alpounet>
ellisbben, but keep in mind that's the way I would do, not an absolute truth about exceptions etc in OCaml
<ellisbben>
don't worry, I'm capable of holding my own opinions. :)
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<Camarade_Tux>
hmmm, batteries' configure checks that batteries is not already installed, that doesn't work well when you want to recompile and reinstall a godi package
<Camarade_Tux>
especially when godi doesn't want to remove it
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<yziquel>
Camarade_Tux: OK. but is there a way to map properly the object structure of a C++ object to an OCaml one?
<flux>
yziquel, well, there is swik
<flux>
it comes with a syntax extension that maps c++ objects to ocaml
<flux>
pretty nifty [disclaimer only read the docs, never, used it]
<Camarade_Tux>
I don't think there is a direct way but code generation might do it
<yziquel>
flux: swig, you mean?
<flux>
ah, right
<yziquel>
flux, Camarade_Tux: will have a look at that...
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<yziquel>
is there any example of swig code binding C++ classes to OCaml?
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<quentin_>
hello
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<quentin_>
do you know how I can use ocamlsdl with ocamlbuild ?
<quentin_>
actually, I type ocamlc -I /usr/lib/ocaml/site-lib/sdl bigarray.cma sdl.cma map.ml -o output
<quentin_>
to compile.
<quentin_>
sorry, internet problems.
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<Camarade_Tux>
if you have ocamlsdl installed with findlib/ocamlfind (I'm not sure it's the default),
<Camarade_Tux>
(for when he comes back and /me away)
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<yziquel>
ok. seems camlidl is a better choice to bind objects... any sample code to bind C++ classes and objetcs with camlidl?
<flux>
in the end just doing it manually may turn out to be the most flexible approach
<flux>
unfortunately, it also requires the most work..
<flux>
I think a binding-generator library would be a great thing instead of all these separate binding generator programs with their own domain-specific languages to describe the interfaces
<flux>
because all libs seem to be slightly different, and in ways not often foreseen by the binding generator authors..
<Yoric[DT]>
Has anyone attempted to produce .cmxs with ocamlbuild?
<yziquel>
flux: I agree with you. But I'd really like to see a camlidl or swig binding of C++ objects for now. In the end, I'll probably end up doing manually, i know that.
<yziquel>
flux: or perhaps it's just my lack of knowledge of C++ objects...
<flux>
yziquel, well, one way to bind it would be to provide a function that returns a pointer to the create object in an ocaml-allocated object
<flux>
yziquel, and then, for each method, provide a val class_method : this -> arg1 -> arg2 -> result
<flux>
yziquel, obviosuly this can be wrapped into a object based interface as well
<flux>
except in C++ you are expected to call a destructor..
<flux>
if the object is a memory-bound object (not in possession of IO for example) that can be handled with the finalizers
<flux>
otherwise, you must provide a destruction method
<flux>
which should preferably invalidate the object also (ie. make the pointer in the ocaml-allocated block null and check for nulliness in all the methods)
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<yziquel>
flux: I'm rather frustrated about this crappy swig documentation..
<yziquel>
flux: it's frustrating because i'm pretty sure it's doing what i want to do...
<Yoric[DT]>
Has anyone used .cmxs at all?
<Yoric[DT]>
Has anyone around here used .cmxs at all, that is?
<jeff_s_1>
sure, a bit
<yziquel>
packaged one.
<Yoric[DT]>
How did you compile it?
<Yoric[DT]>
I have a .cmxa, which I compile to a .cmxs, I then load it but nothing happens.
<Yoric[DT]>
(it should display "Hello world")
<jeff_s_1>
oh, i've never done that. I've only just compiled cmx from source
<Yoric[DT]>
I do mean "cmxs", i.e. dynamically linked modules.
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<jeff_s_1>
oh, not cmx + plural? I wondered. Heh, I haven't even heard of .cmxs till now.
* Yoric[DT]
wonders if the .cmxa is generated correctly.
<Yoric[DT]>
julm: Linux
<Yoric[DT]>
32-bits
<julm>
ok
<yziquel>
Yoric[DT]: trying to trim batteries down?
<Yoric[DT]>
Yup.
<Yoric[DT]>
Mmmmhh...
<julm>
Yoric[DT]: couldn't you use directly the .a instead of the .cmxa ?
<Yoric[DT]>
I could try that.
<Yoric[DT]>
For the moment, a simple "cat" weights 7.3Mb in bytecode, 3.6Mb in native -- 131kb in dynamically-linked bytecode, 360kb in dynamically-linked native.
<Yoric[DT]>
It's still quite big but I'm not sure we could do much better.
<Yoric[DT]>
Note: using only the .a fails.
<julm>
Yoric[DT]: what is the failure when you use a .cmxs built from a .cmxa?
<Yoric[DT]>
My Hello world doesn't say "hello".
<Yoric[DT]>
i.e. the code of the module is not executed
<Yoric[DT]>
Now, the most likely reason is that I probably generate the .cmxa incorrectly in the first place.
<yziquel>
flux: seems like the persons who made the ocaml plugin never heard of static typing...
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<yziquel>
flux: and there's no ocaml objects in the generated file...
<thelema>
c_obj for everything!
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<yziquel>
flux: I guess that it's not that easy to make an ocaml plugin for swig, but come on!
<thelema>
and there's distinct Swig.c_obj *and* c_obj
<yziquel>
flux: i guess more work could be done from the ocaml community on enhancing the swig plugin, partly because there might be quite a few python or perl C++ modules binded this way...
<yziquel>
flux: but this is just horrible as it stands.
<yziquel>
flux: going to have to rewrite the interface with loads of Obj.magic...
<yziquel>
flux: but overall, i must agree that swig is a nice tool.
<yziquel>
flux: the swig ocaml plugin dates back to 2002, by the way
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<flux>
yziquel, perhaps someone had an itch that needed scratching.. surprising that it still works these days, I guess :)
<yziquel>
flux: i would bet my hand on the fact that it still works...
<yziquel>
flux: it generates .ml and .mli and .cxx files, but they need to be compiled with the Swig module. I'm not sure it will work out fine...
<yziquel>
flux: I wouldn't bet my hand.
<yziquel>
flux: I'm sure he had an itch that needed scratching: he also created a camlp4 extension to call C functions from OCaml in a syntax close to C...
<yziquel>
flux: (well, I'm not sure exactly what this syntax extension is for, exactly...)
<yziquel>
thelema: watch out the "This also allows SWIG to acquire new conversions painlessly, as well as giving the user more freedom with respect to custom typing."
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<yziquel>
I'll stop being nasty... he still did the job of writing this glue code.
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<Camarade_Tux>
iirc, the use of Obj was a big complain against swig
<Camarade_Tux>
woah, I was wondering what you were trying to bind and I searched for "libmorfo" on google, the first result is : "paste.lisp.org/display/82243 - 9 minutes ago"
<Camarade_Tux>
scary
<yziquel>
Camarade_Tux: scary? why?
<Camarade_Tux>
that google indexes what you write within nine minutes
<Camarade_Tux>
it looks like you can't do anything without google knowing
<yziquel>
Camarade_Tux: indeed. very scary...
<flux>
you. could. be. indexed. RIGHT NOW!
<julm>
thanks to clog
<flux>
who knows thanks to what, maybe google has their own bot on each freenode channel ;-)
<Camarade_Tux>
flux, a general note about a "general framework" for binding C, the problem is there is not enough information usually
<Camarade_Tux>
for gobject-introspection which is the basis of ocaml-gir, extra infos have been added to the source during the last two years
<Camarade_Tux>
libffi could be a solution however (never tried it but from what I read, it might be good for that)
<flux>
camarade_tux, that is exactly my point, there is not enough information generally
<flux>
camarade_tux, but for example for glib there is some information, for qt there is some information, etc
<flux>
it's all library-specific knowledge that needs to be provided somehow
<flux>
so for each binding you would basically write a program that does the binding generation
<flux>
but you would have a useful set of library functions to help you do it
<palomer>
there's a version of sml that has an interesting ffi
<flux>
such as a lib for parsing C-code (with comments), lib for generating both ocaml and c code, etc
<flux>
and possibly such a library could be accompanied with a growing set of libraries suitable for generating bindings for different kind of applications, once some commonalities are found
<Camarade_Tux>
flux, hmmmmmmm, in the recent days I started to think ocaml-gir could be a good example/reference (as in a how-to) for how to bind C but it's true I could make it really modular
<Camarade_Tux>
like Function(?parent_class,name,prototype...) and work on that (* weird syntax but there's the idea *)
<Camarade_Tux>
I think it'll only be the third last rewrite of ocaml-gir ;p
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<Camarade_Tux>
(that'd make everything slower but considering ocaml-gir runs in less than one second for a library that uses 150 functions and 1500 variables, it shouldn't be a problem)
<Camarade_Tux>
gotta go now, see you :)
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<palomer>
hrmph... anyone heard of the sml ffi which was embedded into the language itself?
<yziquel>
how does it know where to find libdbus-1?
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<Yoric[DT]>
There's a default directory search list.
* Yoric[DT]
doesn't know what's inside, though.
<Yoric[DT]>
Well, well, well, dynamic linking does seem to work.
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<Camarade_Tux>
=)
<Camarade_Tux>
btw, my problem with batteries being already installed has been solved by uninstalling it from outside godi
<Yoric[DT]>
Good.
<Yoric[DT]>
Still, there may be something weird going on.
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<ehird>
godi-bin-prot works on 3.10/OS X without doing anything now
<ehird>
sweet
<ehird>
HUR HUR I speak before waiting.
<ehird>
"### Error: Command fails with code 1: godi_console"
<ehird>
> The implementation src/core/extlib/extLexing.ml
<ehird>
> does not match the interface src/core/extlib/extLexing.cmi:
<ehird>
Well that's just ridiculous.
<ehird>
"> The field `new_line' is required but not provided"
<ehird>
Is this known?
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<julm>
yziquel> it's the linker's job (ld) there are many ways to give search directories to ld : the -rpath (for ld), the /etc/ld.so.conf.d file (for ldconfig), the LD_RPATH environment variable
<ehird>
oh
<ehird>
"Officially, it’s also available for OCaml 3.10, but we have just found a bug which prevents from compiling the 3.10 version"
<ehird>
Hey. Ocaml thinks I can't have labltk. I wonder why.
<Camarade_Tux>
ehird, which version of labltk do you have installed ?
<ehird>
Camarade_Tux: I don't; GODI is compiling 3.11.
<ehird>
I guess it's because it knows not the ways of freaky OS X framework Tk.
<ehird>
(It just says that labltk ain't supported, so it isn't going to compile it.)
<julm>
yziquel: note that after your having installed a new dynamically linked library you would probably just have to run ldconfig (to update its database) to be able to use your library.
<Camarade_Tux>
ehird, sorry, not labltk, tk
<ehird>
ah
<Camarade_Tux>
chances are you have 7.4 or 7.5 and chances labltk needs 7.5 or 7.4
<ehird>
Camarade_Tux: dunno; whatever came with OS X... 8.4 or something?
<ehird>
But yeah, it's uh, in the weird framework structure.
<ehird>
Not a regular library thingy. I got it working ages ago.
<ehird>
Needed to patch the ocaml build system.
<Camarade_Tux>
yeah, 8.x and not 7.x
* Camarade_Tux
should go to bed
<ehird>
Camarade_Tux: Right, I have 8.4
<ehird>
Meh
<ehird>
I don't really need tk
<yziquel>
julm: and linking happens when? ar rcs libfreeling_stubs.a freeling_wrap.cxx.o or ocamlmklib -o freeling_stubs freeling_wrap.cxx.o or ocamlc -o blah.cma -custom ?
<yziquel>
julm: I guess it's ocamlc -custom... So i'd need to tweak LD_RPATH, i guess...
<Camarade_Tux>
ar rcs merely grabs all the .o files and puts them in a single (stripped) file with an index
<julm>
yziquel: ld is called when you build your executable
<julm>
LD_RPATH is only use when you run your executable
<yziquel>
julm: so ocaml -custom...?
<yziquel>
ocamlc
<julm>
-custom is used to build a .cma not an executable IIRC
<yziquel>
grr...
<Camarade_Tux>
it's still called 'custom linking' iirc
<yziquel>
LDFLAGS = -cclib -Lsomewhere?
<Camarade_Tux>
yziquel, you might try OCamlMakefile, it works great for that
<julm>
yziquel: normally you should just put your .so in `ocamlc -where`/stublibs and run ldconfig
<julm>
that is more portable than using -rpath or something else
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<Camarade_Tux>
http://ocaml.pastebin.com/m2b922bfb <- that's what I use to bind gio (it has three files, the .c provide the functions, the gtkgio.ml has only "external" entries and the ggio.ml provides a nice interface)
<julm>
and in fact you just pass your .so to [ocamlfind install] and ocamlfind puts it in stublibs
<julm>
also note that your .so must have a "dll" prefix
<yziquel>
Camarade_Tux: I'm a bit wary of OCamlMakefile...
<Camarade_Tux>
why ?
<Camarade_Tux>
as far as I'm concerned, I don't trust it that much, but I trust it more than I trust myself
<Camarade_Tux>
(in that case of annoying linking)
<Camarade_Tux>
I've had a lot of troubles getting the right switches, order and everything, I got it once, and lost it, ocamlmakefile just seems safer here
<Camarade_Tux>
(I wanted to use ocamlbuild but that wasn't exactly easy)
<yziquel>
Camarade_Tux: because Markus Mottl's postgresql binding's OCamlMakefile scares me so much.
<julm>
yziquel: have you installed the pcre binding for ocaml ?
<yziquel>
dllpcre_stubs.so
<ehird>
> ===> Configuring for godi-camlp5-5.11
<ehird>
> Sorry: the compatibility with ocaml version "3.11.1"
<ehird>
> is not yet implemented. Please report.
<ehird>
Uhh, you can't use camlp5 with 3.11?
<julm>
yziquel: are all the .so in stublibs named like that ? with a _stubs ?
<ehird>
Oh, maybe you need 5.12. But ledit depends on 5.11.
<yziquel>
julm: but the thing is... it's the c++ code I'm binding that relies on pcre... nothing else. So I do not really see why it should link to the libpcre_stubs.so in /stublibs.