<bjorkintosh>
what should i look for on the page, Smerdyakov? it's loading just fine.
<Smerdyakov>
[Answering in #ur.]
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<Camarade_Tux>
hmmm, godi's batteries is quite old too
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<thelema>
Camarade_Tux: that's 'cause the new batteries has no godi
<Camarade_Tux>
I'm actually pondering trying to maintain a bunch of godi packages
<thelema>
I'd love your help in godi-ifying batteries
<orbitz>
but he won't
<orbitz>
:)
<Camarade_Tux>
I use godi for ocaml libraries and I actually waste time working around missing packages or broken ones
<Camarade_Tux>
(I just had to sed lablgtk2 sources while godi was making its package)
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<infoe>
what ide does everyone use predominately for ocaml
<Smerdyakov>
Emacs
<ulfdoz>
emacs
<brendan>
emacs+tuareg
<quelqun_dautre>
nano or vim
<quelqun_dautre>
or pida/vim
<Smerdyakov>
Almost all functional programmers use Emacs.
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<Smerdyakov>
It must be upward of 90%.
<quelqun_dautre>
Smerdyakov: "almost" ---> « Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. » Mark Twain.
<Smerdyakov>
The biggest hit to that number is probably F# in Visual Studio, which is a pretty recent development.
<Smerdyakov>
quelqun_dautre, I have. No one writes vi support for functional languages or formal methods tools.
<quelqun_dautre>
btw, I almost write all my code on the interactive ocaml interpreter
<quelqun_dautre>
or on a sheet of paper
<Smerdyakov>
You can run 'ocaml' inside Emacs.
<Smerdyakov>
Does that work well with vi?
<Smerdyakov>
Also, anyone who writes almost all his code in a REPL must not be writing very complicated software. No offense. :P
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<quelqun_dautre>
Smerdyakov: ... fuck, how do you know ? :o
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<Smerdyakov>
Your code must also not change much, or you'd be copy-and-pasting thousands of lines of code into your REPL each day.
<quelqun_dautre>
that's right too.
<quelqun_dautre>
And I find that's annoying in the REPL that I can't use the arrows keys to modifiy just a char in my code
<Smerdyakov>
Come to think of it, you must not write programs to be used by anyone else, since OCaml doesn't give you a way to save a source file with all the code you've entered so far. :P
<Smerdyakov>
(And you must not write programs to be used by yourself later.)
<quelqun_dautre>
aw, okay, you're right, I'm just learning OCaml. But I dislike Emacs.
<Smerdyakov>
Well, if you want to do serious programming, you're misguided.
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<Smerdyakov>
If you only want to do trivial programming, then none of your choices matter, anyway.
<Smerdyakov>
Anyone who can learn to use OCaml productively will be more productive in Emacs than in vi, after, say, a year of practicing with his chosen environment.
<quelqun_dautre>
D"real programmers use cat" :D
<Camarade_Tux>
I just can't use emacs, it hurts too much
<flux>
after all, there is the vi-mode in emacs :)
<flux>
and the slow startup time can be fixed with emacsclient
<Smerdyakov>
I don't experience slow start-up. Do you have a retro box? :P
<flux>
well, it is in the order of seconds
<flux>
compared to vi, it's a lot
<Smerdyakov>
About 2 seconds for my fresh emacs23.
<brendan>
definitely worth using emacsclient
<Smerdyakov>
When I'm developing, Emacs is always open.
<flux>
about that as well
<Smerdyakov>
This cost just doesn't matter.
<flux>
truth to be told, I've recently done small editing in vi as well :)
<Smerdyakov>
Do people run 'ocamlc' or 'ocamlopt' from within vi?
<flux>
but perhaps because I've been using systems (embedded) that don't have emacs..
<flux>
no
<flux>
(AFAIK)
<Smerdyakov>
How do you match error messages with file locations?
<Smerdyakov>
Manual file opening and line number jumping-to?
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<Smerdyakov>
[Anyone?]
<Camarade_Tux>
actually, :make will work for that
<brendan>
not a vim user myself, but I think it can do that stuff
<Smerdyakov>
Camarade_Tux, are you a vi user?
<flux>
oh, I actually interpreted that as 'run ocaml' from within vi
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<Camarade_Tux>
but before I knew that, I was using 42G
<Camarade_Tux>
Smerdyakov: yes
<Smerdyakov>
Camarade_Tux, how do you do builds?
<brendan>
at this point vim is basically emacs where you use : instead of M-x :)
<flux>
it indeed has some error jumping support. and an embedded programming language.
<Camarade_Tux>
although I still have lots to learn ;-) (but I'm not a beginner anymore)
<Camarade_Tux>
Smerdyakov: well, :make, needs a Makefile but 'all:\n\tocamlbuild foo.native' works well enough ;-)
<flux>
I wonder how the ocaml-based editor projects have been going..
<flux>
but truth to be told I've "invested" (in learning) so much to emacs that I don't really see myself ever switching :)
<brendan>
there's also an ocaml eclipse plugin for serious iconoclasts
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<Camarade_Tux>
I started with emacs and didn't know about vi(m) but wasn't happy with the keybinding which made little sense to me, I kept trying but the pain in my pinky finger grew too annoying
<Camarade_Tux>
next step: turning the computer into a build-bot
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<Gertm>
Camarade_Tux: did you try putting an extra ctrl on caps-lock?
<infoe>
woa started a conversation :/
<Camarade_Tux>
I was young and ignore and didn't think of that, but I think vim really fits me more :-)
<infoe>
smerdyakov: in vi; nG
<infoe>
where n is the line number
<Smerdyakov>
That's too slow for me.
<Gertm>
Camarade_Tux: That really helped for me, my pinky was hurting too, re-mapped caps-lock and the pain went away. I never used caps-lock anyway...
<infoe>
indeed, i didn't start using emacs until i needed an ide for F# on my eee
<Smerdyakov>
It would be better to use an editor that takes a minute to start, than to use one that forces me to jump to error locations manually.
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<Camarade_Tux>
Smerdyakov: actually it's the ocaml mode that isn't perfect (it's pretty good but has a few things which could be improved)
<Camarade_Tux>
but as I said, :make will put you on the error
<Smerdyakov>
Camarade_Tux, yup, I got that.
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<infoe>
if foo then bar else something (arrow back over else, and newline causes my emacs to lock up)
<infoe>
but i am using a modified taureg for f# that i downloaded
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* thelema
just wants better support for |> in tuareg
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<flux>
whee, finally ipv6 is useful for something, the ipv4 at the uni is flaky (possibly a DoS..)
<thelema>
lol
<orbitz>
aware of anyone working on a mongodb interface for ocaml?
<Smerdyakov>
Schema-free? How un-ML-y.
<orbitz>
is it?
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<infoe>
Associat0r: you wanted something earlier?
<infoe>
w00ps
<Associat0r>
infoe: yes F12 goto definition
<Associat0r>
still doesn't work
<infoe>
works for me, across assemblies even
<Associat0r>
tried it on RC and CTP
<Associat0r>
infoe: also to lib source?
<infoe>
#fsharp
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<Smerdyakov>
Yoric, so you were working hard to meet a deadline that got mega-extended? :)
<Yoric>
Did it?
<Yoric>
I sent the paper on time.
<Yoric>
Wow...
<Smerdyakov>
Andrei Sabelfeld posted to TYPES. OWASP AppSec Research deadline extended to March 7.
<Yoric>
Mega-extension, indeed.
<Yoric>
Well, that's life.
<Yoric>
By then, I hope to have written at least one other paper :)
<Smerdyakov>
That's the spirit! :D
<Smerdyakov>
I'm planning on Ur/Web-related submissions to OOPSLA and ICFP.
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<Yoric>
I was hesitating between them.
<Yoric>
Depends on how much time I can find.
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<Yoric>
Well, still, time for bed.
<Yoric>
'night everyone
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