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<MarcWeber>
When building opt: str.o, should this file be provided by thes system?
<MarcWeber>
When trying to link .cmx files into the executable its missing
<MarcWeber>
However running ocamlopt on all .ml files seem to work (?)
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<thelema>
str.cmxa
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<adrien>
hi, in ocamlmakefile, is anyone aware of dependency sorting for the SOURCES variable? ocamlmakefile seems to be calling ocamldep but I'm not sure what for since it doesn't seem to order deps
<adrien>
(I'm now using ocamldsort which nicely sorts files but I'm still curious)
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<rwmjones>
for ordinary Makefiles, I do it by hand ...
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<adrien>
it's for a binding generator so I need the automation and there are at least 50 files
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<adrien>
I'll also eventually use ocamlbuild (again) but I need to work-around some problem with it first
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<rwmjones>
adrien: ocamldsort or ocamldep I guess ...
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<adrien>
yeah, I'm now using ocamldsort and it seems to be working well but I don't really get why ocamlmakefile calls ocamldep not to sort dependencies
<adrien>
anyway, everything's hopefully mostly working now :-)
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<MarcWeber>
thelema: thanks. Adding .cmxa files made linking suceed
<Anarchos>
why is smoothsort not available in the sort module ?
<MarcWeber>
adrien: So you've been working on glib/gtk bindings?
<Anarchos>
gildor i did myself the decoder :)
<adrien>
MarcWeber: yeah, hopefully lablgtk actually has lots of things to automate the work (signals and properties handling, macros to wrap C functions, conversions for C enums...)
<adrien>
I don't want to replace lablgtk*, this is only meant to add more glib-based libraries
<MarcWeber>
Not reading about "Didin't use tool X" makes me wonder whether you know that some binding generators do already exist. Probably you know what you're doing better than I do..
<MarcWeber>
I know that HaXe is still lacking gtk bindings..
<adrien>
there is camlidl but it's pretty low-level (I don't think you can tell it to output code for an object, or if you can, I think it gets pretty complicated) and most others were abandonned or didn't do the job
<MarcWeber>
adrien: there is a tool which is used for different scripting languages.
<gildor>
MarcWeber: swig ?
<MarcWeber>
y
<MarcWeber>
I think that was the name.
<adrien>
here, I have two "stages": first the code is parsed by yacfe and translated to a simpler form (yacfe outputs a lot of info that is not needed here) and then, a project-specific module outputs the code
<adrien>
it's not possible to make something that works for everything while still providing a clean and uniform interface, so I made something specific*
<adrien>
(and for lablgtk2 and other libraries, the code really isn't complicated so it fits automatic generation)
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<MarcWeber>
Does ocaml accept utf-8 source files?
<flux>
afaik no
<adrien>
iirc you can put utf8 inside strings but not in regular code
<adrien>
no utf8 identifiers for instance
<flux>
latin1 umlauts work, though
<flux>
but I guess you won't be using those unless your editor supports mixed utf8/latin1 :)
<adrien>
but the length of strings will be miscalculated (you can see Camomille however for utf8)
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<krankkatze>
Hi
<krankkatze>
what's the best and most simple choice for playing sounds with OCaml? I don't need any graphics so I don't think ocamlsdl or the graphics module are good solutions
<Smerdyakov>
print_endline "Please make a frog noise now."
<adrien>
krankkatze: hi, I like libao
<Associat0r>
Harrop?
<adrien>
had troubles with libalsa, libao was much simpler to use and is cross-platform :-)
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<Smerdyakov>
On most UNIX platforms, there is a /dev device you can just write bits to.
<Smerdyakov>
(To play sounds)
<adrien>
but writing to it directly won't play nicely with other sound-playing apps
<krankkatze>
adrien: debian seems to have a package for ocaml-ao, but archlinux doesnt and I can't find any upstream
<krankkatze>
should I write my own interface?
<adrien>
it's been wrapped by the savonnet project which has a sourceforge page (it's somewhere on their download page)
<MarcWeber>
adrien: There are tools to redirect write calls to /dev/dsp though. So its a tradeoff programmers time vs ..
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<krankkatze>
I found it adrien
<krankkatze>
thanks a lot
<adrien>
libao is very simple to use however, I think it took me less than five minutes to have it play music :-)
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<krankkatze>
adrien: is there any documentation/tutorial or do I have to read the .mli?
<krankkatze>
I've been searching the web without success
<adrien>
I think I read the .mli
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<Smerdyakov>
Does anyone know of contract web programming opportunities that would be compatible with using zany functional programming languages?
<ulfdoz>
lol. waht did you smoke? *scnr*
<Anarchos>
Smerdyakov if i did i would apply :)
<Smerdyakov>
I expect most people who want web applications don't understand programming enough to express preferences.
<ulfdoz>
let's say it the following: Learn PHP.:)
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<Smerdyakov>
Why?
<ulfdoz>
That is what most web sites do.
<Smerdyakov>
I'm genuinely curious why you think people who develop web sites directly for non-technical customers face serious constraints on languages used.
<ulfdoz>
The next releveant mass is based in Java Techniques.
<Smerdyakov>
Was that meant to answer the question from my last message?
<ulfdoz>
no not really.
<ulfdoz>
The thing is, that at least in my regien, web developers are some kind stupid folk.
<adrien>
Smerdyakov: because if a competitor puts "ruby", "php", "ajax" and "python" in the same sentence, it will probably *appear* better to the non-technical
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<Smerdyakov>
ulfdoz, yup. I want to kick things up to a new level and build a brand around far superior service.
<Smerdyakov>
adrien, I would have thought most non-technical people don't yet have associations with those words.
<ulfdoz>
Smerdyakov: Would get my agreement, although I do my stuff in Java. But unfortunately I'm not allowed to do that decision.
<adrien>
Smerdyakov: they've heard it once or twice
<Smerdyakov>
adrien, I have the advantage of advanced degrees, which might cancel out the buzzwords. :)
<Anarchos>
i work for credit mutuel and we have all that java crap
<adrien>
Smerdyakov: I hope so
<ulfdoz>
Smerdyakov: That doesn't work here (Germany). The most stupid idiots sit above you.
<adrien>
(but what if they have an advanced degree in scams? ;-) )
<Smerdyakov>
Anarchos, I don't want to become an employee. Obviously that is a bad idea in general. :D
<Smerdyakov>
ulfdoz, I'm confused. Contract programmers don't need to have anyone sitting above them.
<Anarchos>
Smerdyakov i know but i had no chance to do it without a boss
<ulfdoz>
Smerdyakov: There is a so called project manager, which sits above you.
<Smerdyakov>
ulfdoz, sorry, that's not the case. I can organize things however I want when I contract directly with customers.
<ulfdoz>
Smerdyakov: And yes, I am employed programmer, but that face is for kicking.
<ulfdoz>
Smerdyakov: I can too, but I'm not allowed, and that's the point where I get into anger with the project manager.
<Smerdyakov>
ulfdoz, yes. Like you said, your problem is that you are an employee.
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<ulfdoz>
Smerdyakov: No, that isn't my problem. I can get employed anywhere else. My problem is: Some people simply don't listen to expensively bought expertise.
<Smerdyakov>
Well, we'll see. :)
<ulfdoz>
Smerdyakov: We pay thousands of euros for consultants we realize at most 20% of the hints we got, while the consultant is at least to 80% right.
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<Smerdyakov>
I want to change the image of a web application from Big Project with Lots of Planning to Something an Expert Can Do Quickly.
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<Anarchos>
Smerdyakov good luck :)
<ulfdoz>
Won't work. There are at last 2 Persons, which don't bring you a win, but have your budget.
<Smerdyakov>
I'm sorry, I can't understand your last sentence, ulfdoz.
<ulfdoz>
Smerdyakov: You have a project, you need time and money. While the former is dominated by facts, the second is not. And the second is the thing idiots can decide about.
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<Smerdyakov>
What does this have to do with the idea that superior technology should have a positive effect on your bottom line?
<ulfdoz>
Smerdyakov: The technology would first effect the technicians. It won't affect existing systems, it won't affect existing employments and it won't effect general thoughts. First you have to widespread.
<Smerdyakov>
Not with the web. No one but you needs to know anything about the programming technologies you use.
<ulfdoz>
Smerdyakov: That is not correct. The day before yesterday, I have told my boss, we need to full time employees to get the stuff done. They both should know.
<Smerdyakov>
Yes. Generalize my "you" to include your full development team.
<Smerdyakov>
I think my language makes many jobs feasible for single people, though.
<ulfdoz>
Smerdyakov: I won't say you should not give it a shot. I say, don't expect too much. Maybe it works it has before.
<Smerdyakov>
I have much better technology than anyone else, as far as I can tell.
<ulfdoz>
And now you need adoption, and that isn't a question of something called "better", that is a question of interoperability, compatibility and easyness.
<Smerdyakov>
I'm not trying to get the mass programming audience to use my tools. It's enough if just me and my buds use it as a secret weapon.
<ulfdoz>
Then I think, your goal is definitely feasible in forseeable future.
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<ulfdoz>
Sounds promising.
<ulfdoz>
How can you guarantee the consistency between compiled code and database?
<Smerdyakov>
Dynamic check at application start
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<ulfdoz>
And that deals with all kind of weirdness regarding some database products?
<Smerdyakov>
You can load plug-ins for different DBMSes. The current distribution includes MySQL, Postgres, and SQLite. The last one doesn't have a system catalog, so no dynamic check is performed by that driver.
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<adrien>
has anyone seen the following (with polymorphic variants and objects): Type download = < .. > is not compatible with type 'a
<adrien>
why ' < .. > ' ?
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<ygrek_>
let f x = Oo.copy x;;
<ygrek_>
val f : (< .. > as 'a) -> 'a = <fun>
<ygrek_>
it means "object with some methods"
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<adrien>
but type download = [ `gobject | `download | `gtk ]
<ygrek_>
show the code
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<adrien>
gah
<Anarchos>
adrien for open variants type , the ellipsis is a variable denoting the rest of your type
<adrien>
it's actually the only thing that was still possible: I had one almost equal code that worked
<adrien>
the problem is that 'class download = ...' shadows 'type download'
<adrien>
simply using 'class download_' works around the problem
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<MarcWeber>
test
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<nobodyABC>
test
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<MarcWeber>
Did someone bann Poet_? He tried putting a question but can't send a message..
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<Znudzon>
Hi all . I am new in Ocaml . I heard that Ocaml have something like a CPAN for Perl .. is it true ?
<MarcWeber>
Znudzon: Yep, I can read your message. So changing the nick and logging in again worked.
<MarcWeber>
Maybe its ocamlfind. I haven't used it yet - so I don't know
<Znudzon>
ok but how i can add new lib without it ?
<flux>
well, that's a rather recent invention, I guess it doesn't have much coverage?
<gildor>
flux: indeed
<Znudzon>
godi will works on win 7 (with mingw ) ?
<flux>
it works in windows in general, I don't know about platform-specific features
<gildor>
Znudzon: well it kinda works on windows
<gildor>
you need cygwin and X11 + rxvt
<gildor>
(which is not very common, even for cygwin installation)
<Znudzon>
i see . But if i want add liblary withoud something like a CPAN ...how i can do that ?
<gildor>
Znudzon: what do you want to add ?
<gildor>
Znudzon: you can start a project (on forge.ocamlcore.org for example) and made an annoucement on caml mailing list
<gildor>
(which is the most common way to do thing until oasis-db will be ready)
<flux>
..I think he simply means adding a new package into his installation, not for others to use?
<Znudzon>
i need gui lib for Ocaml
<Znudzon>
YES ! :D
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<MarcWeber>
Znudzon: What's your project about?
<Znudzon>
MarcWeber : you mean why i need GUI for OCaml?
<flux>
I'm not sure which options there are for GUI libs for Ocaml/windows. maybe TCL. that comes with ocaml.
<gildor>
Znudzon: so you look for a search engine of OCaml packages
<flux>
oops, I mean TK, not TCL
<gildor>
there is also a GTK library that works on Wnindows
<flux>
of course there are GTK2 bindings as well, but I wouldn't know how well they work in windows. (not that knew more about the tk bindings either..)
<Znudzon>
TCL will be fine and easy to use. Ok i downloaded ActiveTcl but now i must add new package to my OCaml
<gildor>
Znudzon: do you compile OCaml by yourself ?
<Znudzon>
i downloaded Ocaml veriosn for MS win
<gildor>
Znudzon: if it is not the case, Tcl/Tk is already there
<MarcWeber>
Znudzon: gui can mean anything :) From simple buttons to complex OpenGL apps
<Znudzon>
hehe ok but the main question is ... how i can add new packages :) After download ...let say OpenGL package what i must to do to use Opengl package in my Ocaml :D
<gildor>
Znudzon: it depends how the upstream authors has done his packaging
<gildor>
Znudzon: the standard way is to use ocamlfind
<gildor>
Znudzon: in this case, when the package is installed you can find it with "ocamlfind list"
<gildor>
and to compile it you need to add "-package lablgl" (if you use the LablGL OpenGL library)
<Znudzon>
i must download ocamlfind or i have it in my Ocaml ?
<Znudzon>
but i dont need ocamlfind when i have godi ... rignt ?
<rwmjones>
you still need ocamlfind, but GODI makes it really easy to install it
<rwmjones>
(assuming GODI still / ever worked on Windows)
<Znudzon>
ehh i thin it may be faster when i reinstal win 7 to linux ...
<rwmjones>
or install a VM ...
<Znudzon>
i can writing Ocaml program that will works also on win ?
<rwmjones>
yes ... for simple command line tools it's easy. For GUI tools, use Gtk (lablgtk2) and you'll be able to run it on Linux and Windows.
<rwmjones>
(and Mac)
<Znudzon>
i dont understand why functional proggraming languages are so dificult to use on win
<Znudzon>
a lots of corporations use them :/
<sepp2k>
Znudzon: In my experience many languages are hard to use on win - functional or not. On the other hand F# (a functional language) is perfectly easy to use on win.
<Znudzon>
yeah but it's MS child like a C# ... and F3 is much slower then Ocaml
<adrien>
afaik, godi works on cygwin+mingw, for msys+mingw, I'm not sure... (it partly worked, I don't know how much it has improved)
<Znudzon>
now i must find how to instal it on win :)
<Znudzon>
thank you for information
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<Znudzon>
but if i want Gui program writen in Ocaml in Linux that will be working on win i must compile it on win ... When i want compile it on win i need all packages ... When i want all packages i need ocamlfind ...:/ Right ?
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<rwmjones>
Znudzon: there are various options, including cross-compilation (google for mingw32-ocaml)
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<rwmjones>
the main thing is to use Gtk, since it's a cross-platform GUI toolkit