gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.0 http://bit.ly/aNZBUp
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<dark> can't batteries have usable names? I don't image doing BatPMap.cardinal and such at all my code
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<dark> i mean pset
<dark> actually, if I do module Set = BatSet, I can have a completely compatible Set that also has the polymorphic PSet interface, right?
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<dark> I imagine why http://www.ocamlcore.com/wp/?page_id=60 linked to http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/Livres/ora/DA-OCAML/ , instead of the english translation =)
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<dark> hi?
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<thelema> dark: hi
<thelema> dark: if you do [open Batteries], all the batteries modules will be imported into your namespace without the Bat prefix, and any collisions are merged
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<dark> thelema, nice :) but how about this Set vs. PSet dillema?
<dark> Set can actually be used as PSet, fully, right?
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<dark> also, the general interfaces / structures seems a bit messy / giantish. maybe it's the exhibit the lack of type classes as the single most annoying limitation of ocaml
<dark> the >>= could be made an general operator, if monads were objects
<dark> and anyway, those |-, -| etc. operators were a nice addition :)
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<thelema> yes, PSet is included in Set since 1.2.0 (iirc)
<thelema> Batteries is a bit gigantish. The documentation could be ... improved to gradually acclimatize people to batteries
<thelema> >>= would be nice to "just work". We'll see what comes out of the nicer Module.() local open syntax.
<thelema> I use |> much more than |-, but they're all nice at times.
<dark> I found out this ebuild, but it does not work http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?format=multiple&id=325941
<dark> it seems to think that it is built with autotools
<dark> gentoo choke on the absence of Makefile
<dark> trying to replace 'emake' by 'omake all ..'
<thelema> we've gone through a number of build systems in different versions...
<thelema> pre-1.0 used make+ocamlbuild+autoconf to build
<dark> but this ebuild is specific for 1.2.2 ..
<thelema> 1.0-1.1x used omake
<dark> hm
<dark> 1.2.2 uses.. omake, right?
<thelema> 1.2+ uses simple makefile + ocamlbuild
<dark> ?..
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<dark> but why I'm seeing OMakefile in this newly downloaded 1.2 thing?..
<dark> ah
<dark> no, it's 1.1.0..
<dark> ahhhhh.....
<dark> gforge has an interesting "feature"
<dark> the download is selected by a number, not filename
<dark> this "366" selects 1.1.0, irrespective to the filename requested
<thelema> oops...
<dark> (gentoo has this habit of naming the ebuild to match the upstream filename)
<thelema> maybe you can download from github: http://github.com/ocaml-batteries-team/batteries-included
<dark> debian has a better packaging, overall .-. i had to get a patch from debian to build omake with ocaml 3.12
<dark> and of course it includes a lot of packages i have to mess at gentoo
<dark> btw, the correct link from gforge would be https://forge.ocamlcore.org/frs/download.php/423/batteries-1.2.2.tar.gz
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<dark> thelema, build failed :( http://paste.pocoo.org/show/252306/
<dark> (with that /423/ link)
<dark> maybe my make -j3?
<dark> (but, syntax error..)
<dark> ok, happens even with -j1. maybe ocaml 3.12?
<dark> complete build log, http://paste.pocoo.org/show/252308/
<dark> ocamlfind: [WARNING] Cannot read directory /usr/lib/ocaml/site-packages/stublibs which is mentioned in ld.conf
<dark> maybe i need to install something else not listed as dependency? or maybe rebuild something?
<dark> maybe there were some abi breakage between 3.10 and 3.12. but gentoo provides a script to rebuild things if needed, and i think i run it..
<dark> maybe i need to install camlp5? or maybe the new camlp4 introduced some incompatibility?
<thelema> this is a known bug in the camlp4 API - the fix is in the git tree
<dark> ah
<thelema> we should probably make a new release to go along with 3.12
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<dark> thelema, compiling..
<dark> already got past that point
<dark> how you did that progress timer with bare makefiles?
<thelema> hmm, what was the other fix that got applied to the debian package that didn't sit well with me applying to git...
<thelema> the progress timer is from ocamlbuild
<dark> hmn
<dark> interesting
<dark> building docs now
<thelema> well, I guess it wasn't so important
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<dark> http://lintian.debian.org/tags/ocaml-dangling-cmi.html , debian got this very organized o.o
<dark> installed =) very simple ebuild, http://paste.pocoo.org/show/252314/
<dark> OCaml upstream has disabled this warning by default. Therefore,
<dark> ocaml-batteries builds fine with revision 10396 of OCaml trunk.
<dark> Taking advantage of the new syntax of overridden methods might be
<dark> interesting, though... but of course it's not mandatory nor urgent.
<thelema> no, I don't think it was that...
<dark> (it is the bug you solved)
<thelema> yes, that it is.
* thelema checks the branch
<dark> well, *here* this bug is solved:)
<dark> is there any software that uses batteries? gentoo won't include it in default portage unless there is some substantial use (they don't include libraries just to include)
<thelema> no, there's no major software that uses it. I have my research programs and a simple CBZ viewer, but I don't think they're needed in gentoo
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<dark> i think that a cbz viewer seems interesting to include, but it probably does not weight the maintenance burden
<dark> gentoo seems severely understaffed or something, debian is healthier in this aspect .-.
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<tab> hi, anyone had any luck with using camlp4 syntax with oasis ?
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<f[x]> tab, you can always setup needed tags manually in _tags (outside of oasis-managed block)
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<tab> f[x]: do you have any pointer for doing that by any chance ?
<adrien> tab: iirc, it creates the _tags file, simply open it and append the regular tags, as for any ocamlbuild project (have you ever used ocamlbuild+camlp4?)
* adrien has to go
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<f[x]> adrien <- what he says
<tab> adrien: never used camlp4 before unfortunately
<tab> and ocamlbuild almost only through oasis
<adrien> tab: which package is providing the syntax extension?
<tab> in my case rpc-light.syntax
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<tab> ok i managed to compile the thing, but I've got hardcoded paths in the tags
<tab> any way to have ocamlfind and camlp4 play together ?
<tab> atm i've got: <src/fe.ml>: pp(camlp4o -I /usr/local/lib/ocaml/3.11.2/rpc-light -I /usr/lib/ocaml/type-conv pa_type_conv.cmo pa_rpc.cma)
<f[x]> <src/fe.ml>: camlp4o, pkg_pa_rpc
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<tab> f[x]: seems whatever is after camlp4o is not used
<tab> f[x]: and camlp4o seems to be called without any arguments (so without any preprocessing)
<f[x]> probably pkg is not defined
<f[x]> look at ocamlbuild -documentation
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<adrien> in one project, I have: 'syntax_camlp4o, pkg_sexplib, pkg_sepxlib.syntax'
<adrien> in another: 'syntax_camlp4o, pkg_mikmatch_pcre'
<tab> adrien: in the _tags ?
<hcarty> OCamlPro? That sounds very similar to thelema's Community OCaml.
<tab> ah yes success !
<tab> adrien: thanks that solve my problem
<tab> (with syntax_camlp4o, pkg_rpc-light.syntax)
<adrien> hcarty: I'm tempted to say it sounds very similar to Fabrice Le Fessant's CDK: Caml Development Kit ;p
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<hcarty> adrien: Even more true :-)
<adrien> tab: nice :-)
<adrien> I think the .syntax was part of a standardization effort some time ago (not sure)
<adrien> for OCamlPro, one employee full-time would be a lot more manpower than currently, can only be good
<adrien> (also, one english teacher once told me that anglo-saxon "engineers" were a lot less valued that french "ingénieurs")
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<fraggle_> adrien, he tri te revive a dead project ?
<fraggle_> *to
<adrien> no, I don't think so, or at least he doesn't: the CDK was a good idea but definitely too monolithic
<fraggle_> well
<adrien> there could be something with git's submodules: it's a set of git repositories *each* *pointed* *at* *a* *specific* *commit*, meaning you can make a super-repository and chose a set of compatible commits for all of the subprojects (so you know all the versions are compatible)
<fraggle_> godi is a good starting point
<adrien> and when you update the super repository, you can make a new set of compatible versions
<adrien> (I hope X.org did that)
<fraggle_> but without upstream help to maintain a stable branche (ABI and syntax wise)
<fraggle_> no way I can sell OCaml to customers :)
<fraggle_> *can't
<adrien> I don't think you'll ever avoid the ABI incompatibilities(*) because it's done on purpose
<adrien> * ld-ocaml comes to my mind
<fraggle_> it's a showstopper for entreprise adoption if you don't have it
<fraggle_> ABI change are OK but not so often
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<tab> fraggle_: it's not a showstopper for us
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<fraggle_> tab, who is us ? :)
<tab> fraggle_: Citrix
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<fraggle_> citrix's customers don't care ABI changes on a runtime component ???
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<tab> fraggle_: we don't ship anything that would have such an issue
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<fraggle_> let me rephrase : if you want to sell a OCaml SDK; you must care about ABI changes
<tab> indeed
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<hcarty> Is there an OCaml equivalent to perltidy, or something close?
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<mfp> hcarty: camlp4o pr_o.cmo foo.ml ?
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<Anarchos> my sparc simulator in ocaml is in a good way
<adrien> nice :-)
<Anarchos> adrien as the job is boring i prefer to code a processor simulator :)
<adrien> hahaha, nice that you have time left for that =)
<hcarty> mfp: Perhaps - the last time I tried camlp4o it ate comments, among other things. But I may have been using it incorrectly.
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<Anarchos> adrien i make silly bugs in j2ee for a bank ....
<adrien> your job is to make bugs? I hope you don't work for my bank then :P
<Anarchos> adrien i correct them, but i saw a bit of code from cap gemini where they compare bank accounts in lexicographic order .... I really saw that and tested the bug !
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<hcarty> mfp: Do you know if it is possible to specify formatting options to pr_o.cmo? Or where I would look to find out?
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<Anarchos> hcarty i never played with camlp4, maybe i should give it a try !
<hcarty> Anarchos: It's certainly an interesting tool.
<Anarchos> hcarty as i intend to write a first order logic prover, i guess i will need it !
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