gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.0 http://bit.ly/aNZBUp
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<Axioplase_> gildor: thanks for your answer.
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<JoeyA> I mainly program in C and Haskell, and haven't touched O'Caml yet (but certainly plan to at some point). Is O'Caml "heavy" (that is, requiring a runtime that is dozens of megabytes)? Also, how does O'Caml's library set compare against Haskell's Hackage in terms of broadness?
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<orbitz> JoeyA: Not usre about heavy, Ocaml's libraries are much weaker than hackage AFAIK
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<patata> I have problems porting a program compiled with ocamlc to other machines
<patata> I obtain: Fatal error: unknown C primitive `caml_obj_add_offset'
<patata> anyone can help me?
<patata> I just want to do a deb package for easy instalation of the program
<patata> I don't understand why if I have bytecode it cannot run on every machine which has installed ocaml libraries for his own architectures
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<patata> I need to sleep, I'll duck it tomorrow
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<thelema> Compiling OCaml directly to a new cloud operating system: http://www.scribd.com/vacuum?url=http://anil.recoil.org/papers/2010-hotcloud-lamp.pdf
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<adrien> orbitz: I have core 0.6.0 with godi, but I don't really use it
<adrien> thelema: that link, it doesn't require flash? :o (scribd usually does, but here it "works": the layout is horrible)
<thelema> adrien: scribd had some new html5 engine - no flash
<thelema> *has
<adrien> ah, nice, it might actually be the fault of my browser then (getting a "bit" old: a few months...)
<flux> given Unix.inet_addr, how do I determine its protocol family?
<flux> other than converting it into a string and figuring out if it has .'s or :'s..
<adrien> you mean, Unix.socket_domain, PF_{UNIX,INET,INET6}?
<flux> yes
<flux> I want to issue Unix.socket/Unix.bind with the addres, but I need to first know the protocol family
<thelema> no portable way other than checking the separators
<adrien> http://projects.camlcity.org/projects/dl/ocamlnet-2.2.9/doc/html-main/Netsys.html provides a "val domain_of_inet_addr : Unix.inet_addr -> Unix.socket_domain", the description for netsys says "Some POSIX system calls missing in the Unix module"
<flux> looks like a great addition to batteries?-)
<flux> adrien, thanks, that's exactly it :)
<flux> next time I'll know to google for "Unix.inet_addr -> Unix.socket_domain"
<thelema> yes, batteries should probably adopt netsys as part of its batUnix
<adrien> =)
<adrien> iirc you can link _only_ netsys and don't need to pull anything else so it shouldn't make your program size explode :-)
<adrien> flux: well, maybe google code but unfortunately, standard google doesn't work very well with such queries iirc
<flux> adrien, I tried it out, it worked :)
<adrien> \o/
<adrien> I'll try to remember it for next time too then ;-)
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<momentum_> what do people here think of this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1762210
<thelema> momentum_: I'm happy people are using ocaml for cool things, but don't like the implication of impracticality of using ocaml
* adrien hasn't had time to read it ='(
<flux> I'll keep it in my reading list ;)
<flux> s/keep/add/; s/in/to/;
<thelema> I like the idea of strong typing allowing code to run closer to bare metal
<adrien> now you're just teasing us ;-)
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<gildor> thelema, adrien: I attend this talk at ML workshop in Baltimore
<gildor> thelema, adrien: this is not precisely close to bare metal but close Xen virtualisation ;-)
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<gildor> thelema, adrien: but anyway you get high performance virtual machine for the cloud
<gildor> thelema, adrien: which is exactly what is expected
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<yezariaely> good morning. I use OCamlMakeFile and subprojects do not work for me. I created a Makefile containing def PROJ_p1 SOURCES=... RESULT=... endef export PROJ_p1 and export SUBPROJS=p1 however it does only compile the main stuff additionally defined. any suggestions for help?
<zero123> use /nick seva
<flux> ooh, OCamlMakefile has subprojects support? nice ;-)
<yezariaely> flux: according to the docs yes, but I do not get it working ;)
<gildor> yezariaely: I don't use OCamlMakefile for years, but I think you need to call it recursively
<yezariaely> gildor: I had a look at the "source" and this should be done automatically
<yezariaely> there is a part in the makefile which calls itself recursively according to the defined subprojects
<gildor> yezariaely: do you define OCAMLMAKEFILE variable before the export ?
<gildor> declaratio order matters
<yezariaely> gildor: no, but as it is called recursively the rule in line 370 should correct that.
<yezariaely> (for the newest version)
<yezariaely> gildor: I think I found the solution. the call must be "make subprojs"
<yezariaely> it does not automatically make subprojects ;)
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<yezariaely> and additionally a "make clean" does NOT clean the subprojects, there is no way to clean subprojects atm
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* f[x] wonders why start new project not with OASIS build system
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<yezariaely> f[x]: hmm I am new to ocaml so I did not know about OASIS?
<f[x]> yezariaely, fix it by visiting http://oasis.forge.ocamlcore.org/ :)
<yezariaely> f[x]: this is what I am doing at the moment ;)
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<flux> I'm asking this on periodic basis, but: any news on Qt-Caml?
<f[x]> flux, have you seen http://sourceforge.net/p/qtcaml ?
<flux> no! I have seen http://qt-caml.crapulion.org/trac, though, which seemed positively dead. thanks for the pointer!
<flux> that seems quite positive, it even has support for qt ui-files
<flux> that's great news infact. I wonder how solit it is yet..
<flux> QGraphicsScene/View is something I'd like to bind, I wonder if it supports such 'deep' hierarchies
<f[x]> afaik it is on very early stage
<flux> just 3.6k lines long (generator), so I guess it should be even feasible to contribute..
<f[x]> flux, I'll see if I can cast the author here :)
<flux> apparently this kakadu figure is the one who's taken the job?
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<dimitrykakadu> flux: Hallo. Are looking for qtcaml bindings?
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<dimitrykakadu> flux: All code at sf.net/p/qtcaml has benn written by me.
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<flux> dimitrykakadu, yes
<flux> dimitrykakadu, any idea how much work is still left?
<dimitrykakadu> flux, 10% is done.
<dimitrykakadu> Some classes has binding but I cannot gerate it automatically
<dimitrykakadu> generate*
<dimitrykakadu> The main idea is to use LLVM+Clang to parse QT headers and extract methods of all classes.
<dimitrykakadu> But I have problems with writing C++ code and reading doxygen for Clang
<flux> dimitrykakadu, so codegen2 would be clang-based?
<flux> dimitrykakadu, what about elkhound?
<dimitrykakadu> maybe elkhound. I have YACFE, but I don't understand how to use it.
<dimitrykakadu> And I haven't good manual for yacfe.
<dimitrykakadu> The future of bindings depends on my diploma project at the University
<flux> dimitrykakadu, how?-)
<dimitrykakadu> codegen2 is my attempt to write C++ parser for QT. But now I undersatnd that is not too easy.
<dimitrykakadu> flux: Maybe abstract binding generator for many targets languages is good diploma project
<dimitrykakadu> But I haven't scientific adviser for this theme
<flux> hmm.. how are the python and perl bindings created?
<verte> they recently wrote a new generator for the python bindings
<flux> what data does it use?
<verte> iirc they used to use SWIG, which is an abomination
<verte> good question
<dimitrykakadu> Yacfe is good. It parse C++ code without preprocessing instead of CLang. What about elkhound?
<verte> ah I see, it (shiboken) uses a 'typesystem' xml document
<verte> guess it's a lot more safe than parsing C++
<flux> and a lot more work as well, creating the xml descriptions?
<dimitrykakadu> Are there any ways to create this xml descriptions from header file?
<flux> I think (retiterating a point I've said out loud many times ;-)) that a library for creating bindings would be great
<flux> you could customize low-level behavior for project-specific needs without having to have something that works with 'everything'
<flux> because, let's face it, nothing works with everything :)
<verte> not sure, I haven't used it. but I agree, a decent library for creating bindings would be great (decent clearly rules out SWIG and boost)
<verte> I intend to work on a polyglot framework when I get a little more spare time
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<flux> indeed yacfe can seem a bit impenetrable
<flux> but wasn't there some other lib based on yacfe?
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<flux> and indeed the no-need-for-preprocessing would be a nice bonus (not least because Qt has its own preprocessor..)
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<flux> dimitrykakadu, have you managed to put QT source through YACFE, in other words YACFE doesn't choke on it?
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<dimitrykakadu> flux, I have made an attempt to do it, but without success. I don't understand how to work with YACFE, I have not any manual for it.
<dimitrykakadu> I think that I need to add QT macroses to yacfe config file, but how do it exatly I don't know today
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<gildor> rwmjones: ok, ocsoap compiles now
<flux> whoa
<flux> gildor, what issues did you have?
<gildor> rwmjones: now I get 1MB errors when applying wsdltointf to my wsdl
<gildor> flux: multiple issues, Calendar is now a mlpack, so need to add open CalendardLib
<gildor> flux: camlp4 -> camlp5
<gildor> flux: +some issues in examples (not matching function prototype)
<gildor> +one RC bug on cduce in Debian
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<gildor> (but the RC is going to be fixed in ~2 hours)
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<gildor> rwmjones: have you other examples using ocsoap? (<> adwords API)
<rwmjones> gildor: no, we only used it for that
<gildor> rwmjones: do you still have upload rights for ocsoap?
<rwmjones> sure
<flux> I'd like to interface with the work time tracking system we have here, which has a SOAP interface
<gildor> I will provide you a patch
<rwmjones> gildor: having said that, if you would like to host in on ocamlforge, I think that's better, also you can admin it
<rwmjones> gildor: I will just provide a redirect from the old page
<gildor> rwmjones: why not, but I have a lot of projects already and I am afraid to take another one
<gildor> flux: do you want to maintain ocsoap?
<gildor> rwmjones: will you be part of the project if we move it to OCaml Forge?
<rwmjones> sure
<gildor> rwmjones: do you have a svn/CVS dump to give me
<rwmjones> gildor: apart from compiling it, did it actually work for you? SOAP is not really a standard so just because it says "soap" doesn't mean it would really work
<rwmjones> gildor: yes, just a sec let me find it
<gildor> rwmjones: I am setting up an stunnel to test the Google API
<gildor> rwmjones: but it doesn't work on the GForge API, the WSDL doesn't validate
<rwmjones> gildor: you just want ocsoap/ directory? or the gogal_api stuff too?
<gildor> rwmjones: I need to figure out what is wrong and how to fix it
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<rwmjones> google_api ...
<gildor> rwmjones: the ocsoap already contains an examples/adwords ?
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<rwmjones> yeah I think that was very old, can't remember actually
<yezariaely> hasn't the google webservice api been shut down?!
<rwmjones> this is the adwords API, and no
<gildor> <faultstring>The requested version is not valid.</faultstring>
<rwmjones> yeah, that doesn't surprise me
<gildor> it works, though I only get an error
<rwmjones> adwords kept revving the API version
<gildor> (at least this is a SOAP error)
<flux> gildor, not particularly interested, given I have a side-projectish application for it which might not even work :)
<rwmjones> I would say that is working within the limits that you can test
<gildor> and ocsoap uses v2
<rwmjones> that was the example directory which was old, but even the real google adwords API code that we were using wasn't much newer
<gildor> nevertheless, I will need it to interface OASIS with the OCaml Forge, but I am starting to a have a zillion working items on my TODO list
<rwmjones> gildor: it turns out the CVS repo was on a server which is now switched off ... suggest you just import from the tarball and don't worry about the history :-)
<gildor> rwmjones: I create a project for ocsoap on the forge
<gildor> rwmjones: I expected that, old project finish by being deleted
<gildor> rwmjones: git/darcs/hg/svn/cvs?
<rwmjones> I would prefer git myself, but up to you
<gildor> git is fine
<gildor> rwmjones: no license?
<gildor> -> LGPL + ocaml linking exception?
<rwmjones> gildor: interesting, there was no license file, however yes it's definitely LGPL version 2 or any later, with OCaml linking exception
<rwmjones> gildor: FYI the latest version of the Adwords API we supported was v8 (http://merjis.com/developers/adwords_toolkit)
<gildor> ok
<gildor> I think the problem with GForge API is that I need to update WSDL.cd
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<f[x]> rwmjones, btw, are you planning to update extlib?
<rwmjones> not necessarily planning to, why?
<f[x]> there are several issues in bugtracker, even with a patches, but nobody seems to care
<rwmjones> ok, if I have time before someone else gets to it ...
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<gildor> rwmjones: can you set a redirect from ocsoap to http://ocsoap.forge.ocamlcore.org
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<gildor> rwmjones: I have also commited my changes into the git repository
<rwmjones> gildor: ok done it: http://merjis.com/developers/oc-soap
<gildor> rwmjones: great, now need to make it works with the OCaml Forge API ;-)
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<thelema> is it possible there's something wrong with the libasmrun.a provided in ubuntu? When I link with it, I get a ton of undefined references to things like caml_frametable, caml_globals, caml_apply2, ...
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<flux> gildor, forge.ocamlcore provides soap interface because some underlying module you use provides that, right?
<gildor> flux: forge.o.o provides a soap interface because FusionForge uses NuSOAP to provide it
<gildor> flux: it is not my fault
<gildor> flux: ;-)
<gildor> but I study this kind of thing, because there will be this kind of API in oasis-db
<flux> soap-kind or http-kind?
<gildor> what is the difference ?
<flux> one doesn't need to use SOAP to provide HTTP interfaces
<gildor> so http-kind
<elehack> thelema: I haven't had a problem, including building C extensions, but I suppose it's possible.
<gildor> probably using SEXP or JSON, don't know yet
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<hcarty> thelema: Any interest in a limited range module/functor for Batteries? For example, integers which are restricted to being 1 <= x <= 10.
<adrien> glib has that for its properties, it can be quite useful for interfaces I guess (still haven't used them though)
<hcarty> http://codepad.org/HeWHjsg8 -- something along these lines
<hcarty> Though probably more fleshed out...
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<hcarty> adrien: Prior art! That's promising at least. I know I've seen examples for this sort of thing in OCaml, but I don't remember where
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<PascalHunger> will ocaml 4 ever be coming out?
<hcarty> PascalHunger: It's here! Except it's spelled 3.12.0...
<gildor> PascalHunger: what do you expect about ocaml 4?
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<PascalHunger> gildor: nothing really just been waiting for some years now for the version number to bump up :)
<PascalHunger> I like ocaml never used it for anything serious but maybe in the next few days or so I might think about using it for something
<PascalHunger> I do mostly web dev and thats a hard area for ocaml, but ocaml makes me smarter soo heh
<gildor> gildor: well let say that even without version bummp 3.12 has a quite amazin list of changes
<gildor> PascalHunger: have you ever consider ocsigen for web stuff ?
<PascalHunger> I was thinking about hacking around with mod_caml if it still works with the current 2.x versions
<gildor> well mod_ocaml is still around, but not that actively developped as ocsigen
<gildor> there is alos ocamljs that is worth a look
<gildor> (ocamljs compiles OCaml to JavaScript)
<PascalHunger> gildor: i have spent 5 hours jumping from framework to framework rails to django php frameworks etc etc .....just give me http 1.1 and let me be :)
<gildor> PascalHunger: well mod_ocaml is probably the most simple
<gildor> PascalHunger: but ocsigen gives you types for the HTML structure
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<gildor> (i.e. you shouldn't be able to create an invalid (X)HTML document)
<PascalHunger> gildor: yea hmmm
<PascalHunger> ocaml might make me loose my job, my boss never cares what i use but ..... >< ocaml? really?
<gildor> why not
<PascalHunger> well
<PascalHunger> not many people know about ocaml all like that
<gildor> (on the other side, ocaml is my job)
<PascalHunger> where are you located? just curious
<gildor> PascalHunger: this was probably also the case with ruby 4 years ago
<gildor> Paris
<PascalHunger> in the us most firms have no clue about anything besides php if they are older perl and if they keep up rails
<gildor> PascalHunger: and now, everybody knows ruby and even Rails
<PascalHunger> and java is they bought into that package
<PascalHunger> and if the school uses quite a bit of ms possibly asp.net
<gildor> ruby and python was no big languages for web dev in 2003
<gildor> and most people wouldn't have give a shot at it back then
<gildor> ocaml+ocsigen can be something that works, except if nobody tries -- in this case, I am pretty sure nothing will happen
<gildor> but to be honnest, I think a pro web dev, can really help the ocsigen community
<gildor> they are quite open and if you have experience in this field, I am pretty sure you can provide them with great advice
<gildor> maybe not for work at the beginning
<PascalHunger> I'm looking into it now
<gildor> the first adivce will probably how to have a nice design for their website
<gildor> ;-)
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<PascalHunger> gildor: i am usually not a fan of html generation hehe
<gildor> PascalHunger: nor do I, I have a small homebrew markdown compiler to translate what I don't want to write using HTML
<gildor> PascalHunger: 50% need to be generated (menu, template) once, and the rest of my code is HTML hard to translate e.g. table with style or specific layout
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<gildor> PascalHunger: in the us most firms have no clue -> in France most firms do like "in the us" or don't do anything
<gildor> PascalHunger: I am afraid that it is always hard to push things too different in any country
* gildor time to go to bed
<PascalHunger> gildor: thanks for the tips, i will know my path tomorrow
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