gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.0 http://bit.ly/aNZBUp
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<_y_> hi folks, I'm trying to implement a custom toplevel and I'm having a few issues with it
<_y_> basically what I did was build OCaml from source, then implement a wrapper around Toploop.loop which sets Toploop.read_interactive_input to a function that I control, and I'm playing with some contrived examples to see exactly how things behave
<_y_> for reference, here's my ida_toploop.ml: http://ocaml.pastebin.com/3D0cyW4c , here's my idatop_ocaml.c which implements the externally-defined functions: http://cpp.pastebin.com/NAfduev7 , and here's the top-level wrapper: http://cpp.pastebin.com/74Nu7yUM
<_y_> I notice that when my read_interactive_input replacement returns 'true' in the second position of its pair return value, this causes the interpreter to quit immediately after executing a statement, but it does print out "0\n", as expected
<_y_> if instead I return 'false' in the second position, the interpreter processes both statements, but doesn't actually print any values (it just prints "- : unit = ()" twice)
<_y_> anyone have any insight into this?
<orbitz> over my head!
<_y_> oh, it turns out that I can attribute my mistake to sleep-deprivation
<_y_> sorry; disregard the above, and thanks anyway
<_y_> and congratulations to me, because it actually works!
<mjuad> :D
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<Axsuul> Hmm.. type ('foo, 'bar) blah = Foo 'boo | Bar 'bar
<Axsuul> I don't get what the 'foo and 'bar in the parentheses mean
<Axsuul> why not just
<Axsuul> type 'foo blah = Foo 'foo | Bar 'foo
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<orbitz> Axsuul: because 'foo and 'bar can be different types
<orbitz> 'foo is the same type in your second code
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<Axioplase_> Axsuul: write the type declaration, and then "(Foo 42, Bar 3.1415)" without the quotes
<Axioplase_> Then, try "type 'foo otherblah = Foo 'foo | Bar 'foo" and again "(Foo 42, Bar 3.1415)"
<Axioplase_> (hum, renaming the constructors Foo to Foo2 and Bar to Bar2 may be useful if you do it in the same program/REPL)
<Axsuul> orbitz: thanks
<Axsuul> Axioplase_: alright ill try that.. in a sec. eating :)
<Axioplase_> (I'll take a break, then lunch, and might not answer soon. The point is you trying to use say, one or two parameters with declarations, and then compare the types of several instances. The meaning of the constraints should then be clear to you)
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<Axsuul> argghh, still having trouble getting types
<Axsuul> say i still did this
<Axsuul> but i wanted to add types
<Axsuul> type ('foo, 'bar) blah = Empty | Foo of 'foo | Bar of 'bar | Seq of 'foo * 'bar
<Axsuul> so i could do this
<Axsuul> Seq [Foo "hello"; Bar "world"]
<flux> try: type ('foo, 'bar) blah = Empty | Foo of 'foo | Bar of 'bar | Seq of ('foo, 'bar) blah * ('foo, 'bar) blah instead
<flux> then this works: Seq (Foo "hello", Bar "world"
<flux> )
<Axsuul> flux: hello again :) here is my example actually, http://codepad.org/RScDnnZB
<Axsuul> flux: im trying to define the types for the rules
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<Axsuul> nm i think i got it
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<CityHunter_> hi, I'm trying to install a language name pict
<CityHunter_> I think I've isolated the problem in ocaml
<CityHunter_> someone can help me?
<flux> perhaps
<flux> I'll be moving off to lunch, but perhaps someone else will help. (or I, once I get back.)
<CityHunter_> ok, thank
<flux> (however, outlining your problem first is a requisite ;-))
<CityHunter_> programming language can be found here: http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/papers/pict/pict-4.1/
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<CityHunter_> I use debian lenny
<CityHunter_> flux: when you return from lunch?
<adrien> CityHunter_: hmmm, the issue is probably in pict actually
<adrien> you should forward this to pict's author(s)
<CityHunter_> adrien: thanks for the reply, I have already contacted the author, the project is outdated and that the author was able to help me
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<adrien> ok, good :-)
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<flux> cityhunter_, now
<CityHunter_> flux: I'm sorry, I must go away, come back in an hour
<flux> I imagine it'd be much preferable if the source was updated. it's only 10+ years old :).
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<CityHunter_> I am, I'm back
<CityHunter_> flux: the source pict is very old, but I have no other solution. I am obliged to work with this language.
<flux> cityhunter_, how about trying to find an older ocaml compiler to match?
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<CityHunter_> I have not tried it with an older compiler
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<flux> the only issue I see with that is that the older environment might itself not work greatly in modern (say, x86-64) environments
<flux> I guess bytecode should still work
<CityHunter_> I do not know what to do, I'm discouraged
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<gildor> # int_of_string "2147483647";;
<gildor> Exception: Failure "int_of_string".
<gildor> CityHunter_: ^ ^ ^
<gildor> CityHunter_: are you compiling on 32bits platform ?
<gildor> CityHunter: long M = 2147483647; in Lib/Std/Random.src
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<gildor> CityHunter_: I think the error is from here
<gildor> CityHunter_: if you compile using 64bits platform you won't have this problem
<CityHunter_> uname -a 2.6.26-2-686
<gildor> CityHunter_: this is it ;-)
<gildor> try to compile on amd64/x86_64
<gildor> # int_of_string "2147483647";;
<gildor> - : int = 2147483647
<gildor> on amd64
<flux> I had a similar bug lately
<flux> you'd think Random.int max_int is safe, but it's not..
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<gildor> CityHunter_: I was able to compile pict wo pb on my computer
<gildor> (amd64)
<gildor> Debian Sid
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<CityHunter_> gildor: you run the sample files?
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<gildor> CityHunter_: how can I do that ?
<CityHunter_> gildor: pict inside the folder is a folder of examples, you should start with a pict FILE.po ". / pict fle.pi. The tutorial is written so
<gildor> I can run make inside the Examples/ directory
<gildor> it generates lot of exec
<gildor> I just run a program "escher"
<gildor> it works
<CityHunter_> ok, this is a good thing
<gildor> but with the kind of computer I have, I don't see any difference
<gildor> (i.e. it takes less than a video cycel to generate escher or xtree)
<CityHunter_> ok, so I have to try on a 64bit?
<gildor> CityHunter_: if you want to suceed ;-)
<gildor> CityHunter_: you can also fix the integer
<CityHunter_> in Random.src?
<gildor> yes
<gildor> remove the last digit, I think it can be ok
<gildor> (for all the 2147483647 -> 214748364)
<gildor> but this is just a guess, you should try to understand how it works to fix it
<CityHunter_> ok
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<CityHunter_> I have to get away, see you later
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<orbitz> can OCamlMakefile maek .mli files on the fly too?
<flux> why would one want that?
<orbitz> for now a lot of my mli files are just a straight ocaml -i foo.ml > foo.mli
<flux> and you don't modify foo.mli?
<orbitz> right now, no, i will in the future but i'm still working out the interface i want
<flux> what's the use of having .mli then?
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<flux> but no, OCamlMakefile doesn't seem to use -i anywhere
<orbitz> because once i'm read to package it up all i'll have to do is turn of fthe part that makes .mli files
<orbitz> ready*
<flux> or, you could just ocamlc -i at that point
<flux> well, truth to be told, I've had %.mli.template: %.ml rules in my Makefiles as well
<flux> they can give a nice starting point
<flux> if the design hasn't been up-front
<orbitz> yeah i'm still sort of exploring how i want to solve this
<flux> but basically once I generate the .mli-file, I format it nicely and maintain it manually from there on
<orbitz> also, ocamlfind lists a makefile helper tool in its documetnation that i don't see in the latest version, do you know if there is an alternative?
<heller> so, is there any GUI toolkit for ocaml?
<orbitz> lablgtk
<orbitz> i hear it's terriblet hough
<flux> it comes with labltk and lablgtk
<heller> i see
<flux> I don't think lablgtk2 is more horrible than 'plain' gtk2?
<heller> that is great :)
<heller> i am planning on learning ocaml
<heller> any cool ressources you can point me to?
<orbitz> flux: *shrug* all the ocaml people i've met seem to hate it
<orbitz> heller: the manual on teh ocaml website
<flux> orbitz, oh :)
<flux> orbitz, I haven't done a lot with it
<orbitz> flux: mostly it's people that don't like the O in Ocaml anyways
<heller> orbitz: right, thanks. I imagined there might have been some nice introduction
<flux> the o part of ocaml is great!
<orbitz> heller: ocaml-tutorial is ok, i fin dmyself just going to the manual more often then not thouhg
<flux> the most unforunate aspect of it is that it's an advanced topic on ocaml
<heller> orbitz: sure, once you know the language
<orbitz> heller: i think the manual is great even when you don't really kow it, btu that's me
<heller> i will read through it
<adrien> if you ever see OCamlMakefile generate mli files, tell me :P
<adrien> (since I'm generating the code for .ml files, I'd like to generate the code for .mli files too ;-) )
<heller> I have a strong C++ background. What are the chances i will like OCaml ;)?
<orbitz> heller: depends on if you like C++
<orbitz> if you like C++, there's simply no hope for you :)
<heller> I do like C++ :P
<adrien> heh, I know at least one guy here who'll strongly disagree with you ;-)
<heller> I especially like its template system
<heller> i was hoping to find something similiar in caml
<orbitz> boost spirit will cure you of that easy enough
<heller> nope, it won't
<heller> i actually know how to use
<heller> it
<adrien> lablgtk2 is quite nice actually
<orbitz> heller: arguably the polymorphism provided by ocaml is just as strong or stronger than templates in C++
<heller> sounds good
<heller> what about introspection?
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<adrien> I found a huge hole in its support however but it's very easy to fix (I need to ask for a branch on the svn)
<heller> orbitz: maybe it is good for me to get away from all this template meta programming for a while :)
<adrien> I think you don't have introspection, but I don't know, I really can't say for sure, I've never needed anything like this in ocaml
<orbitz> heller: It is very likely the things you think you'll find important in ocaml you will not
<heller> orbitz: righty.
<orbitz> Mike Fogus did a great talk at CUFP where he put a list of the things they thought they'd usea lot in Scala when they first started usign it then the list they actually used, and the lists were vastly different
<heller> hehe
<orbitz> adrien: camlp4 stuff comes to midn for itnrospection (like sexplib)
<heller> ok, i will just to learn it ;)
<heller> so you know, i plan to build some kind of language interpreter for ocaml
<tab> you mean yet another language interpreter ..
<adrien> yeah, camlp4 will often work for meta-programming and friends, but it's not really at runtime
<heller> tab: no, it is not like regular languages
<orbitz> sure, templates aren't at runtime either though
<adrien> orbitz: hehehe (for the scala thing ;-) )
<heller> orbitz: exactly
<adrien> yup
<orbitz> this might be a dumb questio, but is there an easy way to convert a char list to a string?
<heller> so, truth be told, i really got to value the C++ template system
<heller> and its programming facilities
<heller> i like to use something new
<orbitz> heller: C++ templates certainly have their strengths, And you can even see languages like Haskell implementing a similar mechanism under the hood for optimization purpsoes
<heller> gtg, will bug you later ;)
<adrien> orbitz: list?
<orbitz> but i think templates in C++ are really a cluster fuck
<orbitz> adrien: hrm?
<heller> orbitz: yes, they are too verbose
<flux> orbitz, unfortunately no. I bet Batteries has one ;-). I've used this inefficient approach: String.concat "" (List.map (String.make 1) ['h';'e';'l';l';'o'])
<adrien> orbitz: actually, nevermind: Buffer.add_char should do however
<orbitz> hrm that's a good idea adrien
<adrien> you could alloc the string (length = List.length l), and do some kind of List.mapi (yeah, it doesn't exist in the standard lib) where you put directly in the right position
<adrien> s/could/could also/
<adrien> flux: well, the code is compact ;p
<orbitz> if i'm using ocamlc -i to geneate an interface and the modules uses a function defined in another module in the same project, do i need the .cmi of that other module already? (I keep gettign unbound module error)
<flux> adrien, yes, and readable etc as well! ;-)
<flux> (I think I learned the trick here.)
<adrien> flux: let len = List.length l in let buf = Buffer.create len in List.map (Buffer.add_char buf) l
<adrien> ;p
<flux> adrien, not bad
<adrien> errr, List.iter + return Buffer.content buf ;p
<adrien> (was nicely borked :-) )
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<orbitz> does ocamlfind findlib/make_wizard owrk for anyone?
<adrien> hmmm, never heard of it, what does it do?
<orbitz> oh hrm i'm using a horribly old veresion of findlib
<orbitz> that changes things
<heller> so, question
<heller> is there something like spirit for ocaml?
<adrien> spirit? what does it do?
<orbitz> i think he wants a monadic parser in ocaml
<orbitz> check out pcl perhaps
<heller> ok
<adrien> for the fancy things, I've heard of parserco I think
<adrien> not sure of the name
<heller> basically, what you can do with spirit is define a grammar in a PEG style, and let it parse a string in that language
<heller> thanks
<heller> ocaml was designed for compiler writing?
<heller> awesome :)
<orbitz> ocaml was designed to write the Coq implemetnation
<orbitz> ML == Meta Language
<heller> ocamlyacc seems to be exactly what i was looking for
<heller> yeah, i figured the ML part ;)
<heller> Coq?
<heller> ah
<heller> inria seems to do a lot of compiler stuff ;)
<orbitz> INRIA does a lot of stuff
<orbitz> it's an umbrella lab basically
<heller> yeah i know ...
<heller> funny thing is, i know another guy from INRIA, who does compiler work as well
<orbitz> well if you're involved in CS that shouldn't be too surprising
<orbitz> france is broken up into universities and labs, so INRIA is a huge lab
<adrien> well, *ml haven't been designed for that but it does it very well :-)
<flux> hey, make_wizard is cool
<adrien> inria has many labs, it's indeed pretty big
<flux> perhaps I need to try it out, if not for anything else, for suggesting it to newbies :)
<adrien> flux: link?
<flux> adrien, to180513 < orbitz> does ocamlfind findlib/make_wizard owrk for anyone?
<flux> so, no link other than I tried ocamlfind findlib/make_wizard
<adrien> was looking for the "website", but I think found it
<adrien> but it's not installed here
<adrien> doesn't seem to be available in godi
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<heller> i am starting to like ocaml already ;)
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<adrien> =)
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<orbitz> flux: i found out why mine didn't work, i had really old version of findlib
<orbitz> not sure if any of you would find it useful, but i have http://github.com/orbitz/ca-ocaml-platform
<orbitz> it just is areal simple python script to install latest ocaml + jane st core + dependencies
<adrien> hmmm, godi?
<adrien> but godi is sometimes (often...) old
<orbitz> yeah this is my attempt to stay up to date on the latest stuff i wanted
<orbitz> and it's designed to install in a self contained location (for me ~/bin/ocaml)
<orbitz> I find it useful because i don't have privs on my work machiens so i can just use that to install eveyrthing I need
<adrien> well, for that, godi can be installed anywhere
<orbitz> maybe i'll add godi in that
<adrien> but the issue I have with godi is that so things can remain unupdated for a very long time
<orbitz> i found it was a PITA to install core though, like or sexprlib i needed an older release
<orbitz> yeah, this is by no means a package manager btw, it's goal is just for me to be able to hit a button and get up a fully functional Ocaml install with all the stuff i like
<adrien> well, I'm going to move sonn
<orbitz> it might be useful in ocaml advocation though
<orbitz> like lisp in a box
<adrien> agreed, I've often heard that was an issue
<adrien> bbl
<heller> hmm, what i find strange is the distinction between * and *. (and friends)
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<orbitz> heller: most people do at first
<orbitz> these days i find it endearing
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<adrien> oh... ocamlfind can create a .mli automatically
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<hcarty> adrien: Nifty! How?
<hcarty> I generally rely on ocamlbuild or OCamlMakefile for more complex modules
<adrien> and now, going to write a myocamlbuild.ml
<adrien> (reminder: 3.12 has built-in support for ocamlfind, see http://brion.inria.fr/gallium/index.php/Using_ocamlfind_with_ocamlbuild#Simple_tag_.28from_3.12.29 )
<hcarty> adrien: Thanks for the ocamlbuild pointer
<hcarty> This should greatly simplify the Batteries-provided myocamlbuild.ml
<hcarty> Once Batteries moves to 3.12
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<adrien> been using it (mostly) happily for a few weeks now
<hcarty> adrien: 3.12?
<adrien> and I don't think I'd be starting to write a myocamlbuild.ml myself if I hadn't removed the ocamlfind support from it first
<adrien> hcarty: yeah, 3.12
<adrien> I actually have both versions installed
<gildor> adrien: can you create a sort of patch for OASIS to use this builtin support ?
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<adrien> gildor: could try :-)
<gildor> I think you can share most of the code, and I will activate it when OCamlVersion: >= 3.12
<gildor> adrien: look for (* Add build depends tags *) in src/plugins/ocamlbuild/OCamlbuildPlugin.ml
<gildor> I think you should just replace ("pkg_"^findlib_pkg) :: acc by sthg else and bypass the inclusion of MyOCamlbuildFindlib.ml
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<adrien> it shouldn't be too hard for "regular" packages hopefully but I think syntax extensions might be a bit different
<gildor> adrien: we don't handle yet syntax extension
<gildor> anyway
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<adrien> gildor: I mean, when syntax extensions being used, not their creation (it's not a big deal anyway)
<gildor> adrien: yep, I understand, and OASIS don't handle yet usage of syntax extensions
<gildor> adrien: mainly because I don't figure how to do it cleanly
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<adrien> gildor: ok, I thought it handled that part, my mistake
<gildor> adrien: not yet, once it will be clear, I will implement it
<gildor> (right now I am busy trying to have an effective handling of data from plugins)
<hcarty> adrien: I have the same (3.11.2 and 3.12.0), and have been enjoying experimenting with 3.12.0's new features.
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<adrien> btw, does oasis handle the following: src/{common,app1,app2}: common has, well, common files for app1 and app2, and app1 and app2 should be built separately (mainly because the have files with the same name)
<adrien> hmmm, and I think I need some sleep :p
<adrien> hcarty: haven't had troubles with 3.12 except the camlp4 incompatibilities but now it's solved (I was using mikmatch) so I mostly switched to it
<gildor> common, app1 and app2 are applications ?
<gildor> or libraries ?
<adrien> app1 and app2 are applications and common contains a set of functions/types that is used by both
<gildor> common is a library ?
<adrien> yes
<gildor> it should work except if there are tags that apply to app1 only or app2 only
<gildor> in this case, you should separate app1 and app2 in two different directory
<adrien> forgot to mention that I don't link app1 and app2 against the same libraries =/
<gildor> should work still
<gildor> but you'll get pkg_XXX when compiling files for app1 but not when linking
<gildor> this can be a problem if there are name clashes between libraries
<gildor> but the solution is to have two separate dir
<adrien> I should try then, currently I'm using some kind of shell script that grew from 2 lines to 80 lines, including very ugly ones (but some lines are definitely to be written in shell script)
<adrien> (I don't want to link the "server" part against lablgtk...)
<adrien> well, I got really tired suddenly, good night :-)
<gildor> night
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