gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.0 http://bit.ly/aNZBUp
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<alexyk> is Lwt really parallel, or just preemptive?
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<kmicinski> anyone have any feelings about scala
<kmicinski> I was thinking of investing a few months to learn the basics
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<alexyk> why can't I desugar **, as in (**) 2. 3. ?
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<adrien> I guess this is related to:
<adrien> # (*);;
<adrien> Warning 1: this is the start of a comment.
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<alexyk> ah
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<alexyk> why am I getting the error shown at (bound*.10.) on ine 9? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/310665/
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<alexyk> and why unused variables? what's screwing the syntax?
<julm> first write: let rec aux ~from
<alexyk> julm: justGreater takes optional ?from, but aux's one is unlabeled... Is it a kludge? I pass it to justGreater as a labeled invocation
<julm> you recursively call it with a label: aux ~from:(succ i)
<julm> you must then define it with a label
<alexyk> ah! so I have to drop the label :)
<julm> that's an alternative indeed
<alexyk> yep, works
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<yezariaely> when I compile a ocaml file to a object file (.o) is it self-containing, i.e. any dependencies which I have to link, too?
<yezariaely> (hope this question was understandable)
<avsm2> you need libasmrun.a also
<avsm2> (the ocaml runtime library)
<yezariaely> avsm2: ah sure. thx!
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<yezariaely> is there a function which takes a type instance and produces a string with the name of the type instance?
<yezariaely> e.g. type x = aa | bb (function aa) sould produce "aa"
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<kaustuv> yezariaely: not as such, but check out http://code.google.com/p/deriving/
<yezariaely> kaustuv: looks nice. maybe that is a s much as i need
<yezariaely> thank you
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<edwin> how reliable are source line numbers provided by setting Printexc.record_backtrace true?
<edwin> I get completely wrong lines
<edwin> like the caller is shown on the else branch of an if, but the call is actually on the 'then' branch
<edwin> this is with 3.11.2, didn' try 3.12.0 on this code yet
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<hcarty> edwin: Are you using any syntax extensions? They may be able to mix up position reporting.
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<edwin> hcarty: no, it is all written in original syntax
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<edwin> only fancy thing I use are objects
<edwin> and assertion is raised in one file, caller is in another file, but thats not unusual I'd say
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<edwin> is there something like 'delta.tigris.org' for OCaml?
<edwin> I mean an equivalent for delta's topformflat, so I can try reducing a testcase automatically
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<thelema> edwin: no, although you're welcome to add ocaml support to delta
<flux> edwin, bytecode or native?
<edwin> flux: both show it wrongly, and I used -g
<edwin> when I ahve some time I'll try to write a testcase
<edwin> I backed up the problematic code :)
<thelema> I have problem with native code backtraces being wrong, but it's usually fixed by compiling bytecode
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<thelema> I wonde why this hasn't been done in ocaml (using camlp4) before: http://www.levelofindirection.com/journal/2010/12/28/unit-testing-in-c-and-objective-c-just-got-easier.html
<thelema> possibly because the ocaml community hasn't embraced unit tests, but more likely due to deficiencies in camlp4/ocaml
<mrvn> ocaml code just works so damn well we don't need testing. It either works or doesn't compile. :)
<thelema> mrvn: I wish
<mrvn> yezariaely: camlp4 can do write you of_string and to_string functions for your type. some people have written the modules for it somewhere.
<flux> mrvn, ocaml developers just get smarter about writing better bugs
<flux> it's an arms race
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<flux> I wonder what kind of bugs Coq people write..
<kmicinski> I think a lot of bugs come from people trying to either rape the type system or do things they don't understand
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<kmicinski> I'd wager to say that's where *most* of the bugs come from
<mrvn> kmicinski: (Obj.magic 0) ()
<gildor> what Obj.magic is dangerous ?
<thelema> many many bugs come from Obj.magic or C bindings
<gildor> ;-)
<mrvn> Usualy such bugs are segfaults.
<thelema> the best kind
<mrvn> And all segfaults are such bugs I would say.
<kmicinski> I've never used the FFI stuff
<mrvn> Obj, C and marshaling actually.
<mrvn> But sometimes you write algorithm bugs where you just didn't thing straight or forgot some special case or something.
<mrvn> e.g. your sorted tree suddenly becomes unsorted and then you have fun.
<kmicinski> that covers the last half of my statement
<thelema> yes, it's still easy to break things without the type system catching. I'm not saying that unit tests are always the best way to deal with this, but they can be a handy tool, and ocaml testing is *ugly*
<mrvn> I find unit tests rather useless. They only test the things you thought about and those I tend to get right. But maybe that changes after a year or two and some major revisions.
<thelema> mrvn: I'd argue they have a place, and that lots of dumb bugs can be caught by them.
<mrvn> And they tend to make people test code to see if it is right instead of checking it properly.
<mrvn> thelema: sure. if you find them usefull then use them. Just my personal opinion for the little projects I've done so far.
<kmicinski> I think unit tests are for large companies / c++ codebases :-)
<mrvn> the larger the project the more needed they are I would say.
<edwin> I think you need at least some tests that basic functionality is still working
<edwin> working in the sense of outputting correct results
<edwin> not "it segfaults, doesn't segfaults"
<mrvn> I guess if you have multiple people working on something then one can write the module, the other the unit tests and vice versa.
* edwin should write more tests too
<kmicinski> mrvn, yes, that's how it worked when I interned at huge company
<mrvn> edwin: When I work on a module I often write a test.ml to test the functions. But I've never formalized that into unit tests and kept them.
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