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<banisterfiend>
hat would be an advantage in learning ocaml over haskell?
<banisterfiend>
what*(
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<kmicinski>
banisterfiend, exposure to strict vs. lazy side of things?
<kmicinski>
I don't know haskell so I can't speak beyond that, but I'd say that would be a reason
<banisterfiend>
kmicinski: but im coming from Ruby/C so i already know about strict?
<kmicinski>
banisterfiend, but not a strict *functional* language, and besides, that's a bad excuse, who doesn't know C?
<kmicinski>
:p
<banisterfiend>
hehe
<banisterfiend>
i just wonder if ocaml would provide any mind expansion over and above what i'd get from leraning haskell?
<kmicinski>
The functional languages are pretty alike, especially since they're more conceptually oriented rather than architecture oriented
<kmicinski>
you might do better to learn the syntax and points of both, and then really learn one of them
<kmicinski>
I'm reading Okasaki's book now and he gives code in both sml and haskell
<banisterfiend>
cheers
<kmicinski>
banisterfiend, good luck, I'd like to learn haskell well fyi :-)
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<kaustuv>
banisterfiend: the real advantage to learning Haskell over OCaml is to appreciate both the difficulty and the amazing properties of pure code. Laziness in Haskell is almost always a negative (which is why GHC goes to extraordinary lengths to get rid of it when possible), but the pure-by-defaultness of Haskell is absolutely worth the price.
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<banisterfiend>
kaustuv: what i thought laziness as a great feature of haskell, yet you're saying it's a 'negative' ?
<banisterfiend>
was*
<kaustuv>
Yes, laziness as the default makes your code unpredictable and nearly impossible to analyze without profilers. You would need years of hard won experience to reason about the space complexity of Haskell code.
<banisterfiend>
kaustuv: do the haskell designers agree with you now though, they've learned their lesson? or do they maintain laziness is a good thing?
<banisterfiend>
like, is this just your opinion, or is what you're saying the general consensus now...and it just took ppl a whie to realize it?
<kaustuv>
I have no idea what the Haskell designers think, but I've been in the audience of a few talks where Simon Peyton-Jones has claimed that laziness was not an essential feature of Haskell.
<banisterfiend>
oh ok
<flux>
it is an essential feature of soem haskell demos, though
<flux>
for example this is cool: input <- read_data "input"; write_data "output" input
<flux>
and while input contains all the data as a list of characters and write_data writes it into a file, all the data is never in the memory, so it works with huge files as well
<flux>
too bad that is impractical in real-life applications, though, but it makes a nice demo ;)
<kaustuv>
Note: I am not saying laziness is useless. For instance, you could achieve that exact same property with BatLazyList if you wanted.
<kmicinski>
where'd you learn haskell?
<kmicinski>
the standard book "real world haskell" seems a bit too... real world for me...
<banisterfiend>
kmicinski: what do you mean 'real world' ?
<kmicinski>
I'd like a slightly more theoretical coverage of the material it presents
<kmicinski>
SPJ had a set of books where he wrote in haskell mostly
<kmicinski>
so I suppose that's a good reference
<kmicinski>
but I didn't know if there was a 'gem' out there I was missing
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<kmicinski>
"A history of Haskell: being lazy with class" seems promising
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<Anarchos>
Is there a way to embed the ocaml interpreter in the source code of another application in order to avoid calls to fork/exec ?
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<mrvn>
Anarchos: that is called linking
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<Anarchos>
mrvn yes but what about the stdin/stdout of the toplevel ?
<mrvn>
it will use yours I bet
<mrvn>
but you can call the toplevel functions instead of running it interactively and do your own input/output.
<Anarchos>
mrvn which functions ?
<mrvn>
That you have to google I'm afraid. Been years since I looked into it.
<Anarchos>
mrvn no problem, maybet you speak about caml_interprete()
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<NaCl>
adrien: pm?
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<adrien>
NaCl: of course
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<tautologico>
is there some admin from the ocamlcore forge here?
<hcarty>
tautologico: He may not be around, but gildor is who you want
<hcarty>
tautologico: Or you can use the newly added bug report link in the footer of the forge pages if it's a bug :-)
<tautologico>
thanks
<tautologico>
I don't know if it's a bug
<tautologico>
I can't checkout a SVN repository non-anonymously through SSH, although I can get it anonymously
<hcarty>
tautologico: A repository you own or are a member of?
<tautologico>
yes
<tautologico>
I always get svn: Network connection closed unexpectedly
<hcarty>
Hopefully gildor will be around to answer your question. If not, it's probably worth emailing or submitting a bug report.
<tautologico>
I am listed as a project admin
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<ygrek>
gildor, btw currently all the hudson urls on the project page lead to "permission deined" for anon users
<ygrek>
that was not the case initially
<ygrek>
probably the same rbac configuration issue
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<tautologico>
ygrek: are you an admin of the forge?
<ygrek>
no
<tautologico>
oh
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