gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.0 http://bit.ly/aNZBUp
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<adrien> does anyone know where I can get an account for godi (making new packages)? mail Gerd Stolpmann directly or is there something else I haven't seen?
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<gildor> adrien: mail Gerd
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<adrien> gildor: ok, thanks
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<hcarty> gildor: Feature request - odn and oasis for GODI's 3.12 section, now that odn is 3.12-ready
<gildor> hcarty: yes, I know
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<gildor> hcarty: debian first
<hcarty> gildor: I suppose that makes sense :-)
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<hcarty> gildor: Any pointers to documentation or examples on how to create a suitable _oasis definition for a syntax extension?
<hcarty> My naive attempt has failed - camlp4o is apparently not being used on the extension source code
<gildor> hcarty: have a look at ocaml-data-notation, it is a syntax extension
<gildor> hcarty: though, it is far from perfect right now
<hcarty> gildor: I see that odn has "-syntax camlp4o" passed in when it is needed, but I don't see/understand what causes that flag to be enabled
<hcarty> gildor: That is at least part of what I am misisng
<hcarty> *missing
<hcarty> gildor: I am trying to build xstrp4 with oasis to learn a bit of oasis
<hcarty> gildor: Nevermind - I see that some extra editing of _tags is required outside of the _oasis file
<hcarty> With that done, the oasis-based compilation works. I do, however, get errors about XMETAType being set without the proper plugin being enabled.
<hcarty> But I do include the META plugin
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<gildor> hcarty: the warnings is a bug, but already reported
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<hcarty> gildor: Ah, ok. Thank you!
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<hcarty> gildor: And for what it's worth, my initial impression of working with oasis for xstrp4 is very positive. The setup was simple and straightforward.
<gildor> hcarty: thx
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<gildor> hcarty: you'll see that oasis-db is useful as well
<thelema> hcarty: maybe you can explain it to me - I'm only at the point where I can use custom commands
<hcarty> thelema: I'm happy to do what I can
<gildor> hcarty: in less than 2 hours, I was able to publish a package (ocaml-radixtree), that can be installed with odb right now
<hcarty> gildor: odb is already a nice proof-of-concept. I'm very much looking forward to the full oasis-db, particularly the local package/source tree support.
<gildor> hcarty: yep, but I am very happy that odb exist, it demonstrates that there are no lock-in
<hcarty> Once I have these xstrp4 edits in a state I'm reasonably happy with I plan to put it up on oasis-db as well.
<gildor> hcarty: i.e. someone else than me can do something useful with oasis-db content
<hcarty> gildor: And it provides a way to test oasis-db packages now!
<thelema> gildor: well, the DB is currently pretty centralized
<gildor> thelema: as centralized as the CPAN/Hackage
<thelema> but I see your point.
<gildor> thelema: but it doesn't mean it is closed to a decentralized architecture
<gildor> thelema: AFAIC, you can have multiple repositories in oasis-db command line interface, and oasis-db is OSS
<thelema> well, multiple repos is still on my TODO
<gildor> thelema: but I think a centralized repo is the way to go for now
<gildor> thelema: more KISS
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* Yoric is happy to see all of this happen.
* Yoric is talking about oasis and odb.
<thelema> Yoric: when will opa be odb-installable? :)
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<Yoric> thelema: :)
<Yoric> First we release Opa, then we start working on that.
<Yoric> But frankly, this would be nice.
<thelema> Yoric: btw, yesterday it was claimed that batteries has code in it not under its license?
<Yoric> Really?
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<Yoric> I was pretty certain that I had checked everything.
<Yoric> What did I forget?
<thelema> fair enough. I don't know. The person making the claim wasn't the one that investigated it.
<thelema> someone else at his company did - hopefully I'll hear back from them soon.
<Yoric> I may have forgotten something, I'm far from infaillible.
<Yoric> But I'd be interested :_)
<Yoric> :)
<thelema> I think it's more likely than not a misunderstanding over avltree/imap/iset, which came from camomile.
<thelema> at least that's my best guess.
<Yoric> For Camomile, we have a written authorization somewhere.
* Yoric can try and find it and forward it to you.
* Yoric probably should.
<thelema> sure. I got specific authorization from those whose code I merged in to use it under LGPL2.1+ license too. Do we need to include these authorizations in the source distribution somewhere?
<thelema> that seems kinda funny.
<Yoric> Might be, I never paused to consider that, but possibly.
<thelema> Well, git would be a good place to keep that kind of stuff - attached to the commit that merged in the code...
<thelema> anyway, I'll keep you up to date.
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<mart> thelema: hey. :)
<mart> I met the guy last night that looked into the licensing problems...
<mart> Seems there was some silly chinese whispers game going on. The actual problem (I'm told) is that for that particular project, we had to declare all third-party IP.
<mart> So... nothing to do with licences. Seems there's just been some folklore getting passed around and never questioned. :/
<mart> Yoric: False alarm, sorry.
<thelema> mart: that's good to know. I'm glad this rumor is false.
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<thelema> mart: does this mean that for your project, batteries isn't off the table?
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<mart> thelema: That's right. But I'm not the ocaml expert here, so it's up to him whether to choose Batteries or Core.
* Yoric crosses fingers :)
<mart> :)
<mart> Yesterday I was looking for a monadic Either type, which neither seems to have, so I'm on the fence.
<thelema> mart: batResult.
<mart> Oh, yeah, saw the result.
<mart> It's in Future as far as I can see.
<thelema> huh?
<thelema> It's been around since before 1.0
<mart> Maybe I was looking at the wrong thing. I was just googling.
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<thelema> There's some trivial additions I made that are still stuck in a git branch
<mart> OK, so our expert is put off by the 'Bat' prefix. But still undecided.
<thelema> if you 'open Batteries', all the bat prefixes go away, and things like BatList get merged with stdlib list.
<mart> Ah, sweet.
<thelema> If you need to have small executables, then you should program directly against the Bat* interfaces
<thelema> note: 'open Batteries_uni' if compiling without threads.
<mart> That could be the one.
<mart> I guess you and Yoric are both Batteries developers?
<thelema> yoric was the original lead, he's gone on to other work and I'm carrying the torch now.
<Yoric> yup
<Yoric> A few other developers lurk around this channel.
<Yoric> Actually, Batteries pretty much started on this channel :)
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<thelema> in fact, the only Future in batteries is some references to Future in the ocamldoc comments of batPathGen
<mart> Oh, hey. So Batteries_uni is simple enought that we could copy it, cut out the stuff we don't need, and open it. -->Small binaries *and* nice modules names.
<thelema> mart: Great! This pattern is encouraged.
<mart> I am liking that it's on Github.
<thelema> pull requests encouraged.
<thelema> grr, pieces of batResult are in batStd...
<thelema> mart: also check out batStd.{ignore_ok, ok, wrap}
<mart> there was some mention of result in batPervasives too
<thelema> batStd gets imported into batPervasives. for unknown reasons
<hcarty> thelema: Is BatStd meant for use internally, while BatPervasives is meant for use externally?
<hcarty> thelema: That was my impression A Long Time Ago
<thelema> hcarty: I think batStd was extlib's pervasives replacement, and somehow batteries grew a batPervasives independently
<mart> is there a simpler project that uses ocamlbuild? I tried to use it, and gave up.
<mart> Ah, I'm looking for something with libraries
<thelema> just copy someone's myocamlbuild.ml to get support for findlib (or use 3.12), set the package dependencies in _tags, and ...
<gildor> mart: ... or use oasis ;-)
<thelema> what do you mean by "with libraries"?
<mart> At the moment, we have extlib, and some other stuff in subdirectories, and a recursive make
<mart> It's pretty damned nasty.
<thelema> do you mean "with subdirs"?
<mart> I could get the examples to work, but we have ~4 libs, one of which includes native C.
<thelema> bleh. That I'm not comfortable doing with ocamlbuild, although it's supposedly easy.
<mart> Yeah, that's why I tried it.
<mart> :)
<mart> I need to look into oasis. Keep seeing references to it.
<thelema> well, add that one in last.
<mart> You assume I know how to do that :) I have very little experience with ocaml.
<mart> so even stuff like ocamlfind is a bit of a mystery.
<thelema> to build with an ocaml library, one needs to add the right include path and the right cma/cmxa libraries
<thelema> ocamlfind automates that, keeping configurations on all installed packages and allowing these incantations to be included by just doing `ocamlfind ocamlopt -package foo ...`
<thelema> mart: what version of ocaml are you using?
<mart> 3.11 for now. 3.12 when we can be bothered to upgrade
<thelema> ok, if all the code needed to build your library is in your source tree, you don't need ocamlfind.
<mart> so, would ocamlfind store stuff somewhere in my home directory?
<mart> I think I did look into it once, and was puzzled how it worked with system and user libraries.
<thelema> no, ocamlfind is intended to be system-wide, it has a global package store
<mart> ah, that was my understanding.
<thelema> user libraries are almost supported, except that stub libraries' install dir doesn't get configured by ocamlfind...
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<hcarty> mart: You can setup local/home directory install locations, but I think there are some limitations
<hcarty> thelema: I think you can configure it with a few environment variables
<hcarty> thelema: I've done that before while testing PLplot
<thelema> yup, it's a bit tricky to make work.
<mart> I'm reluctant to do stuff with system-wide libraries when it's clear I have no clue how it works.
<thelema> well, if all your code is in one dir, findlib isn't needed.
<mart> sure.
* mart thinks ..oO ( git submodules and batteries )
<mart> Ruby gems are enough to put me off installing anything system wide from my user account.
<thelema> odb will install batteries locally
<thelema> the key for ocamlbuild using libraries in subdirs is putting `"folder": include` in your _tags file
<mart> OK, thanks. Will have to look at all this build stuff again.
<hcarty> adrien: I think it may be reasonably straightfoward to make xstrp4 somewhat extensible, so you could write a few functions to get <:myquote<${foo,bar}>> to translate however you like
<hcarty> adrien: For example, <:sql<select * from bar where baz = ${baz_val, s}>>
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<thelema> gildor: I just managed to provoke an error in oasis-db uploading ocamlviz (sans _oasis). I'll try again in with an oasis file, let me know if you want the evil tarball
<gildor> thelema: does it crash the server ?
<thelema> it didn't seem to.
<gildor> what was the error ?
<thelema> Unmanaged error, retry later and contact system administrator if it happens again.
<thelema> (if that helps)
<gildor> send me the evil tarball, I'll have a look at it.
<thelema> ok
<thelema> is the polytechnique or debian email better?
<gildor> BTS ?
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<gildor> both mail ends up in the same mailbox anyway
<thelema> ok
* gildor time for kids
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<Anarchos> emmanuelux you are on ipv6 ??
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<emmanuelux> no Anarchos
<_habnabit> it's not exactly very hard to be on ipv6
<Anarchos> _habnabit i know but it is still impressive :)
<emmanuelux> you see my ipv6 Anarchos ?
<Anarchos> emmanuelux (~emmanuel@2a01:e35:2e4d:9010:21d:60ff:fe0e:b818)
<emmanuelux> strange it is my ipv6
<emmanuelux> but i am in ipv4 normally
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<emmanuelux> tu es francais Anarchos ?
<Anarchos> emmanuelux yes i am :)
<flux> you only get impressed by ipv6 because his reverse dns is broken :)
<emmanuelux> why broken flux ?
<flux> emmanuelux, you don't have one?
<flux> that's called broken reverse..
<emmanuelux> i didnt know that our reverse dns where display in clear on freenode
<emmanuelux> were
<flux> really? just look at almost anyone@, they'll appear by their dns name
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<emmanuelux> on other irc i have my reverse dns displayed but in clear
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<emmanuelux> not in clear
<flux> clear?
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<emmanuelux> it is hiden
<emmanuelux> i test my reverse dns on http://remote.12dt.com/lookup.php and it is ok
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<flux> apparently the irc server has had another view on the matter..
<emmanuelux> i think i have freenode look at ipv6 first
<emmanuelux> free my provider in france is in ipv6
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<eikke> hija
<Anarchos> emmanuelux where did you discover ocaml ?
<eikke> while debugging a stack overflow in a native app (based on nothing but a core-file, unable to reproduce...) we're seeing '0x00001' as the %rip several times
<emmanuelux> i kwow caml since 1997
<eikke> is there any reason the ocamlopt compiler emits code which would jump to 0x01, and what's the significance?
<Anarchos> emmanuelux were you in an engineering school ?
<emmanuelux> yes
<Anarchos> emmanuelux may i ask which one ?
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<Anarchos> emmanuelux i was in one in 1997
<emmanuelux> where you
<Anarchos> centrale nantes
<emmanuelux> moi c'etait au cnam
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<Anarchos> emmanuelux ok
<emmanuelux> je me prends la tete avec le dns la
<emmanuelux> en fait je pense que avec free on est en ipv6
<emmanuelux> et donc voila j'ai pas de reverse dns en ipv6
<emmanuelux> voila Anarchos
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<emmanuelux> j'ai trouvé Anarchos
<Anarchos> emmanuelux here we speak english, there is also a ocaml-fr channel if you need to speak french
<thelema> gildor: at at what step does oasis create the ocamlfind META file?
<thelema> gildor: I ask because the cairo package in oasis-db doesn't install for lack of the META file, and maybe I'm not triggering its creation in odb.
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<gildor> thelema: when you run "oasis setup"
<thelema> ah, well something went wrong with the creation of that package then.
<Anarchos> adrien my verifier of math demos is getting some nice improvements
<thelema> I wish I could see christophe's email address in the authors list here so I could bother him about it. http://oasis.ocamlcore.org/dev/view/cairo/0.3
<hcarty> thelema: There is a newer release (0.3.2) which includes a META file
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<thelema> hcarty: the ocaml-cairo that I find has version 1.2.0: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/cairo-ocaml/
<hcarty> thelema: Christophe wrote a new binding from scratch, with what appears to be a cleaner result
<thelema> ah, ok.
<thelema> I wonder if ocamlviz will work with it
<hcarty> Likely not
<thelema> :(
<hcarty> The API is different. I'm not sure how much work it would be to port over, hopefully not too much
<hcarty> Both follow the main Cairo API fairly closely
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<mrspastic> hello
<mrspastic> does anyone know how to map the arrow keys in ocaml console in linux?
<thelema> mrspastic: rlwrap ocaml
<mrspastic> haha wow
<mrspastic> so easy
<mrspastic> thank you!
<thelema> n/p
<mrspastic> exit
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* thelema wants to bonk xavier and co for not having readline support in the toplevel
<adrien> fastest problem solving on irc ever? :P
<thelema> :)
<adrien> Anarchos: that reminds me I haven't even tried making a demo in 3 years... ='(
<Anarchos> adrien lol
<thelema> hcarty: thanks, that alternate version installs fine with odb. Still need to get a findlib-enabled lablgtk2 into oasis-db
<hcarty> thelema: Indeed
<hcarty> adrien: Have you had a chance to look at xstrp4-dev?
<adrien> hcarty: no, not yet but I'll try this evening (but first I need to make some kind of "release" in order to win a bet)
<thelema> it's got a wacky install system, I don't have the make-fu to handle the different compilation modes
<hcarty> thelema: I thought I read about an oasisification of lablgtk2, but that may have been only a findlibification
<thelema> heh. I'd settle for a proper findlibification
<hcarty> thelema: I'll try to get Calendar ready for oasis-db as well
<thelema> there is now a META file in the official findlib repo, but it still has version=2.12.0 for version 2.14.2 and there's no ocamlfind install in the makefile
<Anarchos> adrien i used intensively modules and functor to play with them, it is funny to abstract types and reintroduce them with signature constraints
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<hcarty> adrien: Good luck with your bet :-
<hcarty> )
<adrien> hcarty: I think I just won it :P
<adrien> I had to make a release of "caravel" which is my web browser using webkit-gtk/lablwebkit and lablgtk-react: I made some kind of demo: it's 31 lines of code and has tabs, titles in the tabs, and some keyboard shortcuts provided you've added lines to your ~/.gtkrc-2.0 file (I need to extend lablgtk2's api to handle that part)
<hcarty> adrien: Congratulations... is this the first OCaml-based web browser, or the first modern one?
<adrien> (the story was that I had to release it before Duke Nukem Forever was released, and it's going to be released tomorrow ;-) )
<adrien> thanks, but using a C library ;-)
<adrien> well, C++ and some weird bits
<Anarchos> hcarty there was MMM years (or decades) ago
<thelema> lol
<hcarty> adrien: The "last mile" is the part that counts, clearly!
<hcarty> Anarchos: I think I've read of such a thing, but I've never seen it
<adrien> I'm quite happy because I've been able to move most of the boring code in lablgtk-react (I'd like to merge things in lablgtk-extras but I don't know if that's going to be very easy)
<adrien> the idea is that for a tab-based interface, you define an object with a widget and an "in_tab" method (name to be changed); the widget will be shown and the "in_tab" method defines react events/signals which say what to put in the tab title/favicon
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<hcarty> thelema: Batteries appears to be uninstallable from odb
<hcarty> thelema: odb is looking for 1.3.0 I think, but 2.0beta is provided
<Anarchos> why my platform is not recognized by the configure of ocaml ????
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<hcarty> thelema: Batteries'd xstrp4 - print_endline <:batt<Integer list: ${[1;2;3], List.print Int.print}>>
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<thelema> hcarty: batteries in odb needs some love.
<thelema> hcarty: I put in a 2.0 beta, but am pulling it so a proper 2.0 beta can be put together
<thelema> 1.3 needs to provide 'batteries' and 'estring' like 2.0b did
<thelema> hcarty: is that xstrp4 example supposed to make me not cringe?
<hcarty> thelema: Only cringe with excitement
<hcarty> It's not worth much for an example that short... but I have found sprintf/sprintf2's %a to be difficult to follow
<hcarty> And as nice as batteries.pa_string.syntax is, the code feels overly complex
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