#ocaml on 2011-10-03 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2011-07-12 19:41 gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.1 http://bit.ly/nNVIVH

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04:28 <everyonemines> What's the current status of batteries vs core?

04:28 <everyonemines> Is one clearly better now?

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08:13 <gildor> larhat: I have seen your bug yesterday, I'll fix with release 0.2.1

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09:05 <Kakadu> Hi all!

09:06 <Kakadu> Is it diificult to write a tool which greps OCaml source files and extract information about class type defined there?

09:07 <adrien> Kakadu: why do you want to do that?

09:07 <adrien> what is the final purpose?

09:07 <adrien> because mli files should do it, and ocamlbrowser is a fine tool

09:07 <adrien> Have to go bbl

09:08 <Kakadu> adrien: I want to find a simple way to inherit Qt's classes from OCaml

09:08 <Kakadu> because now I have no idea how to use Qt's Model-View architecture in lablqt

09:08 <Kakadu> in Qt coder inherits from QAbstract????Model and have a fun

09:09 <Kakadu> but how to do it in lablqt????

09:09 <Kakadu> also I absolutely don't know how PyQt suuports that...

09:11 <raphael-p> Kakadu: generally, it is difficult to make a "binding system" for an inheritance mechanism

09:12 <raphael-p> you can have a look at the OClosure project, they had to face the same issue

09:12 <raphael-p> (I don't remember the trick they used though)

09:13 <Kakadu> raphael-p: I think without inheritance trick lablqt will be semi-useful only

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10:27 <adrien> Kakadu: it's quite likely that you'll have to code some things yourself

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12:06 <everyonemines> How hard do you think it would be to make a mlton ocaml frontend?

12:06 <adrien> very?

12:07 <everyonemines> Why? SML and ocaml are pretty similar...

12:07 <everyonemines> does it not support some ocaml features?

12:07 <everyonemines> or are you talking about support for the libraries

12:13 <hcarty> everyonemines: The language's make different assumptions about how the internals work. There was a presentation from the mlton folks which (jokingly?) mentioned ocamlton.

12:13 <hcarty> s/language's/languages/

12:13 <adrien> there will be different things internally

12:14 <adrien> also, I think the compilation speed of mlton is horrible

12:14 <everyonemines> I thought it was ~10x ocamlopt, which is, well, tolerable

12:15 <flux> everyonemines, maybe if you compile everything, but ocamlopt supports compiling smaller units than whole programs

12:15 <everyonemines> hcarty: I'd be interested in info about those kind of differences.

12:15 <flux> everyonemines, (mlton is a whole-program-compiler)

12:15 <everyonemines> i know

12:15 <hcarty> everyonemines: Integer sizes, separate compilation, first class modules, the class/object system

12:16 <flux> although in practice I wouldn't mind either. one would rarely do that compilation.

12:16 <flux> I think a big problem might be the memory model and the ocaml-c-interface. so if you change the memory model, you break the C interfacing code as well.

12:16 <hcarty> everyonemines: Not to discourage you from trying!

12:17 <everyonemines> so sml has 32 bit ints, but that should still work with ocaml code

12:17 <hcarty> But it is not likely be a trivial task.

12:17 <everyonemines> and it doesn't support objects, but lots of ocaml code doesn't use them.

12:17 <everyonemines> what do you mean by first class modules as a difference? functors?

12:18 <rks> http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/manual021.html#toc81

12:18 <flux> everyonemines, ocaml recently gained modules-as-variables support. I guess there's not much core around that uses that yet.

12:19 <flux> not sure if that would be a big problem to support, though

12:19 <flux> AFAIK ocaml 'almost' had the support anyway, in how its internals worked

12:20 <everyonemines> That page mentions using a hashtable to select a module based on input....

12:20 <everyonemines> isn't that incompatible with ocaml's compilation??

12:20 <flux> I wonder how far a 'syntactic converter' could go.. taking the AST and regenerating matching code..

12:21 <flux> everyonemines, didn't read the page, but probably not. polymorphic variants use the same technique.

12:21 <everyonemines> that would be really slow then

12:21 <flux> (and in principle, and in practice in rare cases, that can be a problem)

12:23 <rks> flux: what do you mean by « polymorphic variants use the same technique » what technique?

12:23 <flux> rks, hashing to convert names to numbers. maybe not the same, but similar.

12:23 <rks> Hum, ok

12:24 <rks> btw, in the doc page I linked, the hashtable wasn't related to the internals, it was just an example :

12:24 <rks> « eh look, you can store modules in an hashtable »

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12:25 <rks> (and yes ok, the compilation/representation of variants is discussed in Garrigue's paper yes)

12:26 <rks> (yes = I remember something about converting them to numbers :-')

12:27 <everyonemines> Ah, I see, it's the same as storing a bunch of functions in a hashtable.

12:27 <rks> yes :)

12:28 <everyonemines> And handled with function pointers. In fact I suspect the first-class module example is implemented as a function hashtable.

12:29 <everyonemines> Hmm, no, you would store the module number as a variable.

12:30 <everyonemines> Then use a switch statement on every function call from that module.

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12:33 <everyonemines> I feel like ocaml -> mlton would be useful even without objects or first-class modules...

12:33 <everyonemines> but maybe I'm underestimating their use.

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12:39 <flux> it would definitely be a good start if such a compiler or converter existed.

12:41 <Kakadu> man, how to execute `ocamlc -where` from OCaml and take output string?

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12:53 <raphael-p> Kakadu: look at Unix.execv* functions

12:54 <raphael-p> also Sys.command

12:54 <raphael-p> (more portable)

12:54 <flux> Unix.open_process_in

12:54 <Kakadu> raphael-p: Sys.command executes command and write output to stdout (I think). It is not what I want

12:57 <Qrntzz> it indeed does, as in you cannot assign the result of Sys.command to a variable

12:59 <Kakadu> flux: raphael-p: Qrntzz: thanks

12:59 <Kakadu> flux: yeah, it works!

13:02 <everyonemines> You can read from stdout to a variable.

13:02 <flux> I imagine that's exactly what he's doing now :)

13:03 <everyonemines> You could write a function that returns stdout as a string from running sys.command.

13:08 <everyonemines> But I agree that a built-in way to execute a string and return a string would be good.

13:09 <Kakadu> )

13:10 <flux> everyonemines, how would you write that without the Unix module?

13:10 <everyonemines> What's wrong with unix? I thought it works on windows too?

13:10 <flux> it does

13:10 <everyonemines> My understanding is it's portable.

13:11 <flux> I'm just wondering why you keep referring to Sys.command :)

13:11 <flux> (ie. as if Sys.command was somehow a part of the solution)

13:11 <everyonemines> oops

13:12 <everyonemines> only did that once

13:12 <flux> oh right, someone else referred to it first

13:14 <everyonemines> to answer your question, you can write to a file with sys.command and then read that file

13:15 <everyonemines> on unix you could use mknod to prevent disk writes

13:16 <flux> I can see that being done in shell scripts, but..

13:16 <everyonemines> or perhaps mkfifo

13:16 <flux> in any case you will likely write the node into the disk, or update the directory's access time. well, unless it's linux tmpfs.

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14:55 <f[x]> and now it's time for a little puzzle - can anyone find a solution : http://paste.in.ua/3132/ ?

14:56 <f[x]> namely - tell the typechecker that argument function is itself polymorphic on it's argument

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14:56 <f[x]> bonus for staying within 3.11, but I am very curious of any solution

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16:07 <Kakadu> Men, How to call method of OCaml's object from C?

16:13 <flux> I shall just say that IIRC there's an API for that :)

16:17 <Kakadu> Oh, I've found!

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17:03 <_habnabit> f[x], I can't figure out what you want to change about that code. the type collection isn't polymorphic

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17:05 <_habnabit> or you wanted to pass a function that could take either an int or a string?

17:06 <_habnabit> (wouldn't it be specialized after its first invocation, and then unusable for anything else?)

17:26 <hcarty> f[x]: Got it :-)

17:26 <hcarty> f[x]: I had to do something similar for ocaml-hdf

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17:27 <hcarty> f[x]: It may not be the only 3.11-able approach, but wrapping f in a record will work: type f_t = { f : 'a. 'a -> unit }

17:28 <hcarty> f[x]: http://vpaste.net/0ZHW2

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