<pippijn>
the source view package is called what I had, here
<wmeyer>
hm how did you install it?
<pippijn>
it's in debian
<wmeyer>
ah
<wmeyer>
yes, it could be patched to conform the distro
<wmeyer>
or might be outdated version
<pippijn>
maybe
<wmeyer>
i use odb
<wmeyer>
i have no idea how to fix it
<wmeyer>
you could just not list in the dependencies
<wmeyer>
hmm well then find lib will break
<wmeyer>
ocamlfind
<pippijn>
*shrug*
<wmeyer>
or symlink
<pippijn>
I'm missing a batteries reference, too, I think
<pippijn>
ok, I'm not
<wmeyer>
hmm so i had batteries?
<pippijn>
apparently, or merr wouldn't have built
<pippijn>
do you have a merr.native?
<wmeyer>
yes i needed batteries before but today i re-packaged my box
<wmeyer>
yep
<wmeyer>
maybe there was some left overs but i did ocaml setup.ml -clean and usually it works
<pippijn>
ocamlfind: Package `lablgtk2.sourceview2' not found
<wmeyer>
ocamlfind list
<pippijn>
I think it's because debian packages sourceview separately
<wmeyer>
yes it will not work
<wmeyer>
yes
<wmeyer>
they have combinatons of C library and the ML one, and we don't care about C libraries usually
<wmeyer>
packages*
<wmeyer>
symlinking will not work - because the META file would need patches
<pippijn>
yep
<pippijn>
yesterday there was a huge spider on my curtain
<wmeyer>
i haven't used Debian packages for so long
<pippijn>
now there is a sleeping fly on my curtain
<pippijn>
where is the spider?
<wmeyer>
fly eaten him
<wmeyer>
or he transformed to fly
<pippijn>
I was hoping the spider would come and give a fly eating show
<wmeyer>
maybe he is hiding
<pippijn>
I like spiders
<wmeyer>
waiting for the moment you will have time to see him and not doing any ML
<wmeyer>
they are better than cockroaches
<pippijn>
I can't stand cockroaches
<pippijn>
but the only animals I kill without thinking are mosquitoes
<wmeyer>
btw: your frontend needs common/sense.pm
<pippijn>
makes sense
<wmeyer>
i needed to use install this perl package which is fine but surprising
<wmeyer>
i didn't know what is it - until i apt-file search it
<wmeyer>
so it would be good to include this information in the readme
<wmeyer>
people might be looking in the common directory for file with pm extension (not knowing even it's perl module)
<pippijn>
right
<wmeyer>
is ocamlbuild annoyingly removes symlinks after second attempt to build already built repo
<wmeyer>
is see fcc shell wrapper
<wmeyer>
actually i cant reproduce it there
<wmeyer>
but what happens is that, I build once with ocamlbuild some %.otarget file - it cretes the symlinks - when i rebuild again it removes them and then forget to symlink again
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<pippijn>
wmeyer: you can ocamlbuild everything at once
<pippijn>
wmeyer: if you just type "make", it builds everything
<wmeyer>
pippijn: it works fine with ocaml setup.ml too, i was rather saying about general bug in ocamlbuild that spans over all my projects
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<wmeyer>
re
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<wmeyer>
ah no space left on device - need to get rid of the dead parition
<wmeyer>
thelema_: Will push the update shortly
<jonafan>
post variables have no length restriction, but ocsigen imposes one
<jonafan>
this is annoying
<wmeyer>
lol that was GNU hurd image dangling on my partition which took so much space
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<wmeyer>
thelema_: It was pushed to my branch, please pull
<wmeyer>
I was thinking that if _oasis does not exist we could check for the presensce of META and extract the dependency info from there. I am not sure however if it's right strategy to encourage people to supply incomplete packages. The other problem is that META could be anywhere in the package, and possibly few of them
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<mehdid>
thelema_: any ETA for the new micro release of Batteries?
<thelema_>
mehdid: I'm doing more than I thought. After consideration, I realized that the `ocamlfind batteries/ocaml` isn't so bad of a hack. The other commands are very hackish, and batteries has no business providing an ocamlopt wrapper
<thelema_>
mehdid: I'm testing the new code to make sure it works at least for me before releasing
<mehdid>
Cool, thanks. Please let me know when ready. I'll also test on my side and report back.
<thelema_>
mehdid: thanks. should be within the hour
<thelema_>
wmeyer: package file pushed
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<wmeyer>
thelema_: thanks
<thelema_>
wmeyer: thank you; did it work?
<thelema_>
as far as using META, that seems a reasonable idea, although possibly pushing further into diminishing returns.
<wmeyer>
thelema_: yes
<wmeyer>
thelema_: yes, agreed. it's better to cut down the ways how the packaging should look like
<wmeyer>
thelema_: on other hand why not support META extraction
<wmeyer>
thelema_: with some warning perhaps
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<thelema_>
if you want to do it, first find some package that can't install properly without it.
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<wmeyer>
thelema_: yes, that was mi initial thought. I found already one - ocsigen-deriving
<wmeyer>
which depends on type-conv
<wmeyer>
has meta file but no _oasis
<thelema_>
ok, go ahead.
<wmeyer>
OK will do. I gtg, be back later.
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<thelema_>
mehdid: 1.4.3 released, let me know if I goofed
<osa1>
thelema_: I was thinking of using MetaOCaml, do you know it?
<thelema_>
that would work too
<thelema_>
I haven't used it myself, but I know of it reasonably well
<osa1>
what is type "exn"?
<mrvn>
exception
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<osa1>
so is it impossible to write a memoization function that takes functions with arbitrary number of parameters? I've tried this but it doesn't work for some reason: http://hpaste.org/69563
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<osa1>
yay! I made it work
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<Hodapp>
This is sounding somewhat familiar. I read a paper, I think it was "On Understanding Data Abstraction," which explained to me for the first time that ADTs and objects as in OOP are not just a case of one being a special case of the other
<thelema_>
quite true
<Hodapp>
and it did note that one rather large difference was that ADTs were often amenable to automated proving (as in static typing) in a whole variety of ways objects rarely are
<thelema_>
Hodapp: objects mix code and state in tricky ways
<Hodapp>
here we go, "On Understanding Data Abstraction, Revisited" by William R. Cook
<Hodapp>
thelema_: and that was one reason they mentioned pretty specifically
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<djcoin>
Is knowing lambda calculus important for an average OCaml developer ?
<djcoin>
Or say, more generaly, "in depth" type theory ?
<djcoin>
I'm wondering if I should dive in, eg, by reading the "Types and programming language (Benjamin Pierce's book)
<zorun>
Being fluent with basic math concepts like sets and functions should be enough
<djcoin>
I think it's enought to program indeed, but most of the time I barely understand whats going on the ocaml mailing list or discussion about types (even if i have some background in it as a classic oo CS student)
<bitbckt>
Basic Category Theory for Computer Scientists might be a better place to start.
<djcoin>
bitbckt: Yeah, this book is pretty big and seems a bit daunting
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<djcoin>
smondet: thanks ! what is it about ? a gentle introduction to type systems and such as it seems ?
<smondet>
it is a course
<smondet>
it uses Coq
<smondet>
so you learn Coq in the same time
<smondet>
it starts very slowly
<smondet>
the exercises with Coq make it a bit video-game-ish
<smondet>
it introduces a lot about typing but it makes hack with them in the same time
<djcoin>
All right, I will see if I can learn Coq. I was not thinking about using it in the near future (looking for basic/pragmatic coding and understanding) but if it helps, why not :)
<djcoin>
Thanks
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<djcoin>
bitbckt: and, may I ask, how does Category Theory relates to types ? I heard monads and such come from this field. But maybe the answer will be quite long :s
<bitbckt>
in a mathematical sense, categories and types are one and the same.
<djcoin>
Yeah, I was about to make such a proposition, it may be algebra applied to CS
<bitbckt>
elaborating on that is long, but a quick wikipedia search might sufficiently answer your question :)
<companion_cube>
djcoin: you really want to learn Coq? :)
<djcoin>
Not sure, but I want to get a better understanding of types :)
<companion_cube>
try haskell :p
<djcoin>
Opens a few doors to get a better understanding
<djcoin>
companion_cube: well not sure, no. I find that it's really great such language exists but I find it a bit unrealistic
<companion_cube>
i mean, it's more realistic than coq, but still can learn you a lot about types
<wmeyer>
it's a good book - hard to understand to begin with - but later helps to understand Coq from engineering point of view - it also have quite few good examples of dependetly type implementaion of practical algorithms
<djcoin>
wmeyer: thanks a lot for your input :)
<wmeyer>
djcoin: if you wish to look at haskell i wouldn't look at haskell too (I quite like few things there though) but on Agda or Epigram
<wmeyer>
Agda has some nice introductory book - but beware that is more like Coq in Haskell community - and is not theorem proover in general but really a very modern functional language (it's capable of expressing proofs)
<wmeyer>
good exercise is always to try to understand both by rewriting some examples, I belive Ptival has some git repo with some SF examples ported to Agda
<wmeyer>
surely understanding dependent types change how your work with other languages
<djcoin>
All right, as I don't have much spare time on my hand I guess I will not be able to explore/read many paths :s But thanks !
<wmeyer>
breadth first here works well :-)
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<wmeyer>
thelema_: ?
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<Qrntz>
are there any maintained ocaml bindings to bdb?
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<wmeyer>
There are several problems with OCaml 4.00.0+beta2 and ocamlbrew+odb
<wmeyer>
most serious one is with findlib
<wmeyer>
it will not compile with OCaml 4.00.0+beta2, unless you put -I compiler-libs to the compiler options
<wmeyer>
which is fine
<wmeyer>
the other problem is with topfind the directives does not seem to work
<thelema_>
wmeyer: pong
<thelema_>
wmeyer: findlib 3.00 is promised to work with ocaml 4.00
<wmeyer>
thelema_: you mean 1.3.1 or 3.00?
<wmeyer>
thelema_: I am confused - current findlin is 1.3.1 that's a serious gap in numbering
<wmeyer>
i tried with 1.3.1 though not 1.2.8, and it didn't work either