<pierpa>
I don't know Core, but looks like Time.to_sec_string is expecting a second argument of type zone:Core.Zone.t
<jsaq>
I copied the code straight off the book
<jsaq>
Time.to_sec_string (Time.now()), for example, works
<pierpa>
then, no idea
<jsaq>
Oh, it doesn't work, it just returns another function
<jsaq>
Yeah, I'm missing a second argument
<jsaq>
Thank you
<jsaq>
book is probably outdated
<pierpa>
Check the list of known errors. Maybe is a known one.
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<bc`>
hi
<companion_cube>
o/
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<ocaml678>
hi there
<ocaml678>
I am a long-time ocaml user but a total newbie at lexing and parsing. I want to parse a language that has both delimiting angle brackets and "less than" operator
<ocaml678>
the problem is in the lexer I would like to assign "<" to both "OPERATOR" token and "LANGLE" token
<ocaml678>
and obviously this does not work, what's the correct way to do this?
<companion_cube>
well, to have only one token, and let the parser disambiguate
<ocaml678>
since "operator" may include arbitrary sequences of symbols, this means I have to reconstruct the operator name in the parser then?
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<ocaml678>
in ocamllex I used a rule like (">" | "=" | "<"| "!" | "?" | "+" | "-" | "*" | "/")* as lxm {OP lxm}
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<ocaml678>
which is then wrong, I have to do that in the parser?
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<Drup>
not really, just add a rule above that transforms ">" into LANGLE, then in your parser, you have a rule operator: (LANGLE | OP)
<ocaml678>
hmm but also <= is an operator, so that gets clumsy
<Drup>
Wait, you want "<=" to be potentially parsed as a delimiter with "=" being the next token ?
<flux>
why is it (..)* instead of just (..) ?
<flux>
ah, right, ///= etc
<ocaml678>
well it should be (...)+ actually, I'm seeing this now, but it's not the point
<ocaml678>
Drup: no <= should never be parsed like that
<ocaml678>
<= is always OPERATOR
<Drup>
then it works as I said :)
<ocaml678>
I'm probably dumb :) but how do you parse <= as operator then?
<flux>
| LANGE -> { Operator "<=" } | Op x -> { Operator x } ? (I haven't used ocamlyacc for some time)
<ocaml678>
flux: that would translate the string "<" into 'Operator "<="'
<Drup>
ocaml678: I'm just going to show you how it's done in the ocaml lexer ;)
<ocaml678>
Drup: that would be absolutely great :)
<flux>
can't you have "<=" { LANGLE } in your lexer and then "<=" would always make "<=" become an LANGLE?
<Drup>
| "<" { LESS }
<Drup>
| ['=' '<' '>' '|' '&' '$'] symbolchar *
<Drup>
{ INFIXOP0(Lexing.lexeme lexbuf) }
<Drup>
(there are a bunch of other rules for symbolchars that emits INFIXOPN with N between 0 and 5, for priorities
<Drup>
and that's it
<ocaml678>
ah
<ocaml678>
yes that's deterministic
<ocaml678>
makes sense, thanks
<Drup>
while the ocaml parser is a big soup of tangled noodle, the lexer is reasonably readable.
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<Drup>
(and probably showcase every quirks imaginable in an LALR language)
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<ocaml678>
drup: will keep that in mind for future reference!
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<Drup>
ocaml678: are you using menhir ?
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<ggole>
Hmm, that paper on sequent calculus as an IL is an interesting read
<Drup>
(except it was a dependently typed sequent calculus, and it was as a backend for agda)
<ggole>
Sounds like fun
<Drup>
(we never really finished, but it was fun)
<ggole>
I've played around with CPS a bit, it doesn't really seem like a nice IL
<Drup>
well, ANF and CPS are equivalent. flambda is in ANF
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<Drup>
(and sequent calculus is pretty close to ANF, I don't remember the exact differences)
<Drup>
(ANF being pretty close to "functional SSA" in spirit)
<ggole>
My understanding is that CPS is ANF plus some join points
<Drup>
I'm pretty sure you can transform one into the other. There might be details that I forgot
<ggole>
Mmm.
<ggole>
I suspect Week's criticism of CPS may apply to all 3
<ggole>
Plus there's the usual (although minor) weakness of 'syntactic' IRs of placing all the arguments passed to a function all around a program instead of in one place, making it expensive and annoying to look at them all
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<ggole>
SSA gets that one right
<Drup>
ah, no, that's not valid for the sequent calculus
<Drup>
morally, it's a graph, just like SSA. You use a syntactic representation for convenience, but that's all
<Drup>
that's precisely the point of using sequent calculus, substitution is fast
<ggole>
Oh, hmm.
<ggole>
A more graphical IR definitely seems like the way to go
<ggole>
Hoisting and sinking in CPS is quite tedious
<Drup>
yes, but not in sequent calculus
<Drup>
(and I'm pretty sure, not in ANF either)
<ggole>
Not in ANF? You still have scope, right?
<Drup>
hum, yes, kinda, but that's not much of an issue
<Drup>
(ANF is really similar to sequent calculus, it's a list of bindings ...)
<ggole>
So you get the same thing where if you want to contify a function you have to sink it into the scope of the continuation (which may not be in scope of the original function, since it is recieved as an argument there)
<ggole>
In a proper graph IR you'd just forward the argument and be done (in fact, it would be simple sparse copy propagation)
<Drup>
huum, I don't remember enough to answer
<ggole>
(The downside being that you have to have a scheduling pass, which may be quite interesting for a language with nested mutually recursive functions)
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<companion_cube>
sequent core looks funny
<ggole>
Well, so does CPS
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<ggole>
Although maybe not as funny, cut pairs are pretty strange.
<ggole>
And also you could do things like fails? f (g _) _ and have it find values which lead to assert false or other bad things
<companion_cube>
ggole: the issue is mutability
<companion_cube>
(for OCaml)
<ggole>
Which would be really nice for finding out how bad your understanding of your programs is
<ggole>
Oh, aliasing?
<companion_cube>
well, mutable state
<companion_cube>
I mean, it's much harder to represent in a SMT solver
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<companion_cube>
Drup: I'd be interested in a quick summary of what you recall from this discussion, because really, hasconsing without DB…
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<ggole>
I just (yesterday) watched a presentation on using a solver for a small language with mutable variables
<Drup>
why do you need hashconsing to begin with ? :)
<ggole>
And the solution was pretty much conversion to SSA (well, predication, but that's the same thing)
<companion_cube>
Drup: that's not the question :p
<Drup>
actually, it is
<companion_cube>
ah: for caching purpose
<ggole>
Unless I'm missing something, it seems like that should work in the absence of aliasing
<companion_cube>
auto-memoization if you prefer
<companion_cube>
ggole: like a simple state monad, I guess so
<companion_cube>
but it's a lot harder than purely functional
<Drup>
because when we were talking about typechecking things like coq, the conclusion was that, with a representation in sequent calculus style, you don't need hashconsign anyway
<ggole>
Uh, I'm not sure about the connection with monads there.
<companion_cube>
yeah ,but coq doesn't need as much evaluation as the tool I'm writing :]
<companion_cube>
ggole: monad for threading the state around
<ggole>
Isn't the point of SSA/predication to (sort of) remove it
<companion_cube>
I guess it's equivalent, never mind
<ggole>
We might be talking past each other a bit here. :)
<Algebr`>
why does travis still run on opam PRs even when removing packages? I guess for reverse dependencies?
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<tvynr>
Does anyone actually use .install files for OPAM packages? I searched the OPAM repo and came up with few examples. I like the idea of skipping "make install" (since manually specifying install and remove steps is sloppy), but I can't find a good example of using package-name.install files to install libraries from a project.
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<tvynr>
(I don't know much about OCaml's build chain; I was just hoping to be able to specify an .install with the appropriate subset of my _build directory and call it a day.)
<tvynr>
So I suppose my question for the room is: do people use .install files or are they generally only used for patch-ups and special cases in practice?
<Algebr`>
i think topkg uses .install?
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<tvynr>
Algebr`: topkg seems to use its own weird custom script for building. There's no install segment in the opam file, but there's no .install file either.
<tvynr>
Thanks for the reference, tho.
<companion_cube>
ggole: I guess you could unroll OCaml functions and check invariants with z3, indeed
* companion_cube
watching the talk
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<tvynr>
I'm really just trying to write a little library package and I'm struggling to find the best way to do it. I'm reluctant to have to keep an .install file up to date with my source tree (if I create a new library in my _oasis file, it's error-prone to also have to write it into a .install file) but the "make install" route seems bad too (and the remove process doesn't let me keep my setup.ml to use -uninstall with it).
<tvynr>
I'm sure the build process is designed the way it is for a reason but, to a newcomer, it's sort of hard to understand without dissecting the history of things like findlib. :-P
<Algebr`>
tvynr: what's wrong with oasis?
<Algebr`>
and then oasis2opam
<tvynr>
Algebr`: Hm. I use oasis for this project. I tried oasis2opam once for a different project but ran into problems for reasons I don't recollect. I'll take a look at it; thanks.
<Algebr`>
oasis2opam --local is what I use. Could also move over to topkg but haven't cause of hassle of learning a new thing
<tvynr>
I just tried oasis2opam on my little working example project; I think it's pretty much what I want.
<tvynr>
Thanks for the reference; this does the job.
<tvynr>
:)
<tvynr>
I inadvertently learned what I set out to learn by building this toy project too. So I take it that it'd be bad for my little pet project to have a library it calls "utils", huh?
<Algebr`>
not really, make it a child package
<Algebr`>
foo.utils
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<Algebr`>
look for FindlibParent in opam, grep for it
<tvynr>
Oh goodness. I think there's a whole dimension of this stuff that I never figured out.
<ggole>
companion_cube: is there another approach?
<companion_cube>
well, I have an alternative for pure functions, but it's WIP and may be published some day
<tvynr>
Algebr`: Do you know of a project that uses OASIS and declares a child package? I'd love to learn from it.
<Algebr`>
tvynr: its pretty straightforward, just bad docs
<Algebr`>
tvynr: yea many, look though opam or one secon
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<tvynr>
Algebr`: That's been my experience, yeah: straightforward once you find an example to copy and paste from. :-P I'm not sure what I'm looking for; is FindlibParent an OASIS field?
<thomasga>
hey, is there any "right" way to add conditional dependencies to a META file?
<Algebr`>
tvynr: this _oasis file should give you pretty much all you'll never for a while
<tvynr>
Excellent! Thank you so much for your help.
<tvynr>
I think my build workflow is about to get much nicer.
<Algebr`>
yay
<copy`>
Can I safely remove `| e -> raise e` from `try … with | … | e -> raise e` or does it have some effect?
<asmanur>
i guess at least you don't get the same backtrace information
<ggole>
It nicely ruins your backtraces
<tvynr>
Algebr`: One last question, if you don't mind: can a findlib child package have a child package (e.g. foo.bar.baz)? I'm hoping the answer is yes; this would help a lot with organizing our libraries. :-P
<Drup>
thomasga: "exists_if" ?
<Algebr`>
tvynr: I think so, never tried three layers of nesting
<thomasga>
currently the META file of conduit has a lot of magic, as we change it depending on what we link at build time
<Algebr`>
wow
<thomasga>
and we use cppo+magic ocamlbuild runes to link with the right libraries
<Drup>
thomasga: honestly, your question should be "how to remove the cppo from conduit", not "how to add more magic in the META file" :D
<thomasga>
yes
<thomasga>
if you have an answer to that, I take it :-)
<Drup>
if we assume the only user of conduit is mirage, I have one, look at how the devices are made
<thomasga>
an other exemple that I am currently working on: a portable FS event library: should be FSevents on OSX, inotify on Linux and polling on Windows (until we have something better)
<Drup>
(the conduit devices)
<thomasga>
well my question is not about conduit actually :-)
<Drup>
I know ^^
<thomasga>
:p
<thomasga>
I will try to add some exist_if the the META file
<thomasga>
I'm sure this will go well...
<Drup>
but I really think what conduit is doing (a library which *dependencies* changes according to how it was compiled) is really evil
<thomasga>
well, the goal of the lib is to hide that to the final user so it has to do it
<Drup>
(exists_if is used in many libraries, all the oasis ones and jsoo, for example)
<thomasga>
I agree that ti doesn't hide it very weel
<thomasga>
but the goal is somewhat noble
<Drup>
I'm not sure we really need to hide it like that, honestly. A set of various modules that provides combinators should be enough, especially if we assume the mirage tool is used. But let's put that debate aside.
<Drup>
if you want to change the dependencies of a package, I don't think you have a choice
<Drup>
you need to gen the META file at build time
<Drup>
exists_if is here to enable/disable whole (sub)libraries
<thomasga>
I'm sure I can turn that into a weapon of mass destruction
<tvynr>
Algebr`: Just so you know, the naive thing didn't work. I'm not sure findlib supports three-level hierarchies. Whatever, though; I'm happy with two. :)
<tvynr>
Algebr`: Thanks again for the help!
<Drup>
tvynr: findlib supports any number of levels
<tvynr>
Drup: Oh? That's good to hear.
<Drup>
You need something of the form "FindlibParent: foo.bar"
<Drup>
(in oasis)
<tvynr>
So I wrote that into an OASIS file. It complained that "foo.bar" didn't exist.
<tvynr>
Despite the fact that I wrote Library entries for "foo" and for "bar" above it.
<Drup>
hum
<tvynr>
Could be an OASIS problem, though.
<Drup>
Please pastebin :)
<Algebr`>
tvynr: sure thing
<tvynr>
Okies. One sec.
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<Drup>
thomasga: having fun topkging, I presume ?
<thomasga>
it's not really related to topkg at that level
<tvynr>
I got a complaint about a missing META file, but I think it's 'cause my dummy source directories were missing.
<tvynr>
Yep; works for me now, too.
<tvynr>
I must've had an out-of-date META file lying around.
<tvynr>
Probably created it by accident while I was messing about with install commands. Thanks for the help!
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<tvynr>
Honestly, if it weren't for the excellent community support, I'd be completely lost. :)
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<Algebr`>
tbh having to ask people on IRC for such basic help is a sign of something is broke in OCaml doc and new people support.
<Drup>
I agree, especially for oasis, the documentation is very insufficient :(
<tvynr>
As one of those new people, I also agree. :-P I wish I had the level of confidence necessary to write some documentation. It'd be great if there were a wiki for this or something.
<Drup>
tvynr: the ocaml.org website is appropriate
<Algebr`>
ocaml.org is pretty good, however some tutorials literally just drop off in the middle
<tvynr>
Ooo! It's in a GitHub?
<Algebr`>
the tutorials?
<Algebr`>
the tutorials are on the ocaml.org github, as markdown
<Algebr`>
the code that generates the ocaml.org website is....a little tangled to say it diplomatically.
<Drup>
I guess ? I don't know the library enough to answer
<Drup>
that's pretty much what oasis would emit, though
<Drup>
(so I guess it's good enough :p)
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<Drup>
oh wait, the main package depends on the two optional subpackages
<thomasga>
well, oasis will not have a cppo invocation in the top-level package
<Drup>
hum, not sure if that's going to work
<thomasga>
yes, that's the trick :-)
<thomasga>
the right sub-dependency is picked up with the exists_if
<thomasga>
or *should be picked up*
<Drup>
does it work ?
<thomasga>
no idea :-)
<thomasga>
it was a 2 minutes hack, so probably not
<thomasga>
I will test it later
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<tvynr>
Hooray for fire alarms.
<tvynr>
Algebr`, Drup: Thanks again for your help!
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<soupault>
hello everyone!
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<silver>
hello
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<strykerkkd>
hi guys, nowadays merlin doesn't work in Atom for some reason. i tried the nuclide and the merlin atom package, but didn't work
<strykerkkd>
am i the only one?
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<strykerkkd>
visual studio code has a really good ocaml extension, so it's not really an issue
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<tvynr>
strykerkkd: I routinely find that the Atom Merlin plugin craps out when my project fails to compile across multiple files. I'm refactoring right now, so I'm afraid I can't really provide a test.
<strykerkkd>
tvynr: i remember that once it worked perfectly for me, but after an update it's just didn't work any more
<tvynr>
strykerkkd: I wouldn't be surprised if it's broken in my environment. It always seems a bit touch and go. I hope it stays maintained; I love Merlin but I can't stand developing in emacs or vim.
<tvynr>
I'd like to beg a piece of advice from anyone who's using ppx_deriving. I often find that I want to derive eg, ord, yojson, etc. for functorized data structures (e.g. Var_set). Of course, the ppx_deriving code expects to find a function "pp" inside of those modules and I have to use some trick or another to point the deriver to code elsewhere. How do other people deal with this?
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<smondet>
tvynr: well, if your functor expects `pp`, `to_yojson`, etc. functions, the natural path is to get them through the functor argument(s).
<tvynr>
Right, but this isn't my functor. It's e.g. the functor Map.Make.
<tvynr>
And the problem there is that I still can't provide a pretty-printer at that point, since Map.Make produces a map type which is polymorphic in its value.
<smondet>
oh I see
<tvynr>
I've bumped into this problem 'cause I have a variant with a map in one of its constructors and ppx_deriving_yojson doesn't let me override how that particular parameter is encoded. :(
<smondet>
maybe it's fixable by creating your own augmented Map functor with some `include Map.Make(bblabl)`
<tvynr>
I think it is. It's sorta vexing, tho, since it means I need to make different types for e.g. VarToVarMap and VarToPatternMap.
<Drup>
Alternatively, Fmt.iter / Fmt.Iter_bindings should make creating such pp function easy
<tvynr>
I suppose that's a consequence of needing to serialize the value, tho.
<tvynr>
Drup: which library is that?
<smondet>
strykerkkd: I stopped using Atom a month ago or so, but most Merlin problems were just fixed with `make clean; make` and/or setting the right path to the merlin executable (after `opam switch` merlin has to match exactly the ocaml compiler) (?)
<Drup>
fmt
<Drup>
:D
<tvynr>
Drup: I don't know a Fmt module.
<tvynr>
Ah. :)
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<tvynr>
Drup: Unfortunately, this doesn't solve my issue with generating code for Yojson. I think this is a feature problem with ppx_deriving_yojson, though; it doesn't give you a way to name a codec replacement for parts of a type.
<tvynr>
Thanks for the fmt reference, tho.
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<strykerkkd>
smondet: I kind of stopped using Atom, because VS Code just works better.
<strykerkkd>
hmmm, after a test. seems like merlin works in atom, when typing , but it still doesn't show type hints
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* kakadu
is holding his breath and hears approaching of implicit question.
<andy__>
I have a function which will be parameterized by a large number of functions, large enough that I don't want to pass them in as parameters individually. Should I use A) a record of functions, B) an object, or C) a first-class module?
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<Denommus>
hi
<Denommus>
I'm trying to make a testing Android app in ocsigen
<Denommus>
and it seems it uses index.html entirely, while ignoring my $(PROJECT).eliom file that actually has the program's logic
<Denommus>
what am I missing?
<Denommus>
it seems there are no tutorials
<Denommus>
I just used the "mobile" template of eliom-distillery
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<rgrinberg>
Drup: Str doesn't support beginning/end only word boundaries right?