adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | Current MOOC: https://huit.re/ocamlmooc | OCaml 4.04.0 release notes: http://ocaml.org/releases/4.04.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<Drup> FFS
<Drup> C'est la TROISIEME comette
* Drup rage
<Drup> hum, wrong chan u_u'
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<kmicinski> When I set environment variables, they do not seem to be inherited by ocamldebug, is there a way around this?
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<jls_xxx> I have a situation where I want to pattern match against many cases of something where the RHS is not just a one or two line function. In haskell I just define the function multiple times at the toplevel with a different pattern. Can something similar be accomplished in ocaml?
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<SkeThuVe> jls_xxx : I swhat you want a disjunctive pattern ? e.g. 'match e with | A | B | C -> e1 | D -> e2'
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<Onemorenickname> when open and begin are keywords in ocaml
<Onemorenickname> how should i name my variables :'(
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<_y> open'
<_y> begin'
<Onemorenickname> :'(
<_y> ;;-)
<Onemorenickname> :'(
<Onemorenickname> this makes me sad
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<haesbaert> wait until you need a tag named None :D
<Onemorenickname> haesbaert, i love polymorphic variants
<haesbaert> I never use them tbh
<Onemorenickname> you never that kind of problem again
<Onemorenickname> you can reuse tags, share them between types
<haesbaert> gege true, I end up using "Nothing"
<Onemorenickname> (with set-theoretical types, it would be even better, but still)
<Onemorenickname> :'(
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<freechips> hey guys is it possible to have an infix type constructor?
<Drup> freechips: no
<Drup> Onemorenickname: that's a really bad reason to use polymorphic variants, especially since we have disambiguation
<freechips> Drup: thx. i guess i can alias the constructor using an infix function :)
<Drup> yes
<freechips> quite handy syntactic sugar
<Drup> doesn't help for pattern matching unfortunatly
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<Onemorenickname> freechips, you won't be able to use it for letrec too
<Onemorenickname> Drup, what is disambiguation ?
<freechips> Drup: yeah it's not perfect but its just what i need
<freechips> il just pattern match on the constructor
<freechips> im just looking for slightly more polished syntax for my language
<freechips> not that syntax matters a lot anyway
<Drup> Onemorenickname: eh, it's not documented
<Drup> Onemorenickname: the typechecker is capable of figuring out where constructors come from using type informations, even if their name conflicts
<Drup> that works for both records and constructors
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<SomeDamnBody> Does anybody know how to compute the set of nodes that have no dominators using ocamlgraph?
<Drup> isn't there a dominator module for this kind of things ?
<SomeDamnBody> Drup: true, but that doesn't directly give me that.
<SomeDamnBody> So, I'm trying to make sure that I don't waste time
<SomeDamnBody> reinventing the wheel
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<Drup> hum, the dominator API seems quite awkward
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<SomeDamnBody> yeah. Do you think I should add a function for that?
<SomeDamnBody> I could merge request it on github probably within a day.
<SomeDamnBody> I just didn't want to create anything that has already been done
<Drup> don't know. I never really used dominators
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<SomeDamnBody> Basically, I just want a set of nodes that have no edge leading into them.
<Drup> huh, out_degrees is enough for that
<SomeDamnBody> But I guess I'm finding that that particular node should be the parameter in almost all cases to the dominator.
<SomeDamnBody> Yeah, I'll just write a really brief function, I don't know why I complicated it so much
<Drup> like fold_vertex (fun x l -> if out_degrees g x = 0 then x :: l else l) g []
<SomeDamnBody> Yes
<Drup> actually, in_degree*
<SomeDamnBody> yes, that slipped me too.
<SomeDamnBody> My bad, I am busy thinking up a set of ways to simplify a new algorithm that is complicated by a handful of inductive cases that combine with one another
<SomeDamnBody> So, there's like two types and 3 properties, but each of those can occur with different combinations of one another. And I've got to find a way to simplify it all.
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<Onemorenickname_> hello
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<Onemorenickname_> i'm trying to do some thing like "let rec a = [some_big_wrapping_function a]"
<Onemorenickname_> and it's not allowed
<Onemorenickname_> so far, i just unwrapped the call to "some_big_wrapping_function"
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<Onemorenickname_> but now, i have mutual recursion, and it's not possible anymore
<Onemorenickname_> whatdo?
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<Drup> try to use lazy ? :/
<Onemorenickname_> Drup, what's the difference ?
<Onemorenickname_> what would you lazify ?
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<Drup> let rec a = lazy (some_big_wrapping_function (Lazy.force a))
<SomeDamnBody> Is there a module in the ocamlgraph library for identifying the subgraphs that are entirely distinct from one another?
<Drup> sometimes it works
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<Onemorenickname_> Drup, i get Camlinternallazy.undefined
<Drup> yeah, that happens when your recursion is not really feasible
<Onemorenickname_> "not really" ?
<Drup> what are you trying to do ?
<Onemorenickname_> i'm defining grammars
<Onemorenickname_> and i want mutually recursive grammars through helper functions
<Drup> right
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<asmanur> Drup: i don't think your example ever works: if you do Lazy.force a it will always fail
<Onemorenickname_> (i tried on a dummy example, it did not work)
<Drup> asmanur: depends what's in your big function
<asmanur> Drup: in call-by-value, it does not ?
<Drup> well, actually, big function, yeah. If it's "big expression", depends, of course
<_y> am i the only one whose external dependency solver (aspcud) fails miserably because it insists on loading some libpython3.5 stuff that does not exist, because 3.6 ?
<Drup> _y: rebuild aspcud
<Drup> (or gringo, whichever)
<_y> Drup, i use a packaged binary
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<Drup> err, complain to the packager ? :/
<Drup> I'm not sure symlinking works, in this case
<_y> if the error is not due to a bad config from me, i guess i can wait for the fix to be packaged
<_y> my temporary workaround is called ln -s
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<_y> Drup, it happens to work, but well…
<_y> so it is a known problem?
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<Drup> _y: I'm not sure it's "known" but I got the same one
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<_y> oh wait, gringo is actually an unmaintained package from the AUR, although aspcud is an official package that depends on the official package clingo
<_y> comments on https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/gringo say that it has been integrated into clingo which is now the way to go
<Drup> ah, didn't know that aspcud was in community now, nice
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<Onemorenickname_> so there is no way in ocaml to have mutually recursive definition ?
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<P4Titan> Hi all. Does anyone have expirience with ppx_deriving_protobuf?
<P4Titan> I'm trying to serialize a non-standard Zarith Z.t type
<_y> Drup, okay, so the problem was gringo not properly upgraded / replaced by the package manager, due to aspcud having been repackaged into an official repo with no change of the version number but the dependency gringo replaced by clingo
<_y> and cringo deprecated (not even marked as conflicting with clingo as it should)
<_y> so the solution for me was: sudo pacman --assume-installed gringo=4.2.1 -Rs gringo && sudo pacman -S aspcud
<_y> Onemorenickname_, of course there is
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<Onemorenickname_> _y, is there a way to make the compilator not scream when I want to "let rec a = f a b and b = g a b" ?
<Drup> Onemorenickname_: not without doing tricks with lazy
<Drup> (or hiding behind functions, of course)
<Onemorenickname_> "hiding behind functions" mean ?
<Drup> let rec a () = ...
<Drup> Onemorenickname_: can you show concretely what f/g are ?
<Onemorenickname_> Drup,
<Onemorenickname_> something along the lines of https://ghostbin.com/paste/385q2
<Onemorenickname_> seq is the function for the sequences of grammar, alt for the alternative
<Drup> alt/seq are your own, or from a library ?
<Onemorenickname_> my own
<Onemorenickname_> actually, this one won't compile
<Drup> you're going to add a fixpoint combinator to your library, then
<Onemorenickname_> i have to replace "nt aux" with "`NT aux" so it compiles
<Onemorenickname_> hm
<Onemorenickname_> you mean, a fixpoint combinator to the library doing the parsing
<Drup> yes
<Onemorenickname_> not only the grammar formatter
<Onemorenickname_> this is not good
<Drup> recursion is not magical. If you are not defining a value *syntactically*, the compiler has no way to know how to take the fixpoint of your expression
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<Onemorenickname_> Drup, there is no way to define a function as syntactical in ocaml ?
<Onemorenickname_> like, a typed macro
<Drup> No :/
<Drup> that would be so nice, but no
<Onemorenickname_> hm
<Onemorenickname_> do you know if haskell allows that ?
<Drup> yes, for two reasons: 1) pervasive lazyness 2) undefined
<Onemorenickname_> pervasive lazyness
<Onemorenickname_> right
<Onemorenickname_> it does not messes with all the types
<Onemorenickname_> hm
<Drup> "let x = x + 1" is a valid haskell expression (that returns undefined when evaluated)
<Onemorenickname_> oh.
<Drup> yeah
<Onemorenickname_> so it allows more than it should
<Drup> you can't really decide :/
<Onemorenickname_> you can allow a big enough subset :D
<Drup> it's not that easy
<Onemorenickname_> i'm sure it is not
<Drup> actually, x loops, in this case
<ollehar1> no one knows fstar? the #fstar channel is always dead empty :P
<Onemorenickname_> for this problem, either functions should be flagged as "not inspecting their content", or flagged as syntactical
<Onemorenickname_> ollehar1, are you poking fun at me because I went to #fstar after this problem ? :D
<ollehar1> Onemorenickname_: oh
<ollehar1> no, I'm reading about stateful verification
<Onemorenickname_> oh, i see
<Onemorenickname_> well, Drup, thanks for your help :)
<Drup> another technique, to allow recursion, is to separate creating a name and associating the definition to the name
<Drup> you create all the name you want first and then associate them to the definitions (which can use the names)
<Onemorenickname_> i don't see what this technique is
<Onemorenickname_> (i'm thinking about a hashtabl when you say what you're waying)
<Drup> let my_rule = new_rule_name ()
<Drup> assiociate my_rule (something_defining_a_rule my_ryle)
<Drup> eh, modulo typos
<Onemorenickname_> "associate" ?
<Onemorenickname_> it's with a hashtabl behind or something likethat ?
<Drup> yeah
<Onemorenickname_> actually, i made the earley parsing first with classic algebraic grammars
<Onemorenickname_> with "S -> A + B" and so on
<Onemorenickname_> but I switched to my current representation because it was cleaner, more efficient, and easier to fiddle with
<Onemorenickname_> until I hit the ocaml problems :'(
<Onemorenickname_> so, I don't really like the "associating" approach, I got many problems with it
<Onemorenickname_> thanks :)
<Drup> it works better for some class of problems, but otherwise, yeah, fixpoint
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<orbifx> off-topic: has anyone moved their public repos from github to gitlab?
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<adrien> that was a channel scanner
<adrien> (heh, that last one could never match anyone)
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<orbifx> what was?
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<adrien> FiveBroDeed a few hours ago
<adrien> Deep*
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<oriba> Hi. I want to use git-submodules in a OCaml-project. The used soucres are then inside sub-directories.
<oriba> What way would be the best to include those subprojects into the OCaml-project?
<oriba> Using symlinks?
<oriba> Or can sources in sub-directories somehow included differently?
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