adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | Current MOOC: https://huit.re/ocamlmooc | OCaml 4.04.0 release notes: http://ocaml.org/releases/4.04.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<chetshah> Hello all, Ocaml beginner here, was trying to wrap my head around the fact that cyclic data structures (e.g. doubly linked list) would necessarily need to use mutability/ref features?
<chetshah> If yes, why so?
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<flux> chetshah, hmm, let's say you have a double linked list of a single element. how would you go about making a version of the list with two elements?
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<chetshah> good point flux, I realise since everything node is reachable from anywhere in a cyclic data structure, verisioning/immutability by structural sharing doesn't make much sence.
<chetshah> So better use ref making a cyclic data structure.
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<SomeDamnBody> So, I can't get opam to install camlp4
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<flux> somedamnbody, what does it say?
<SomeDamnBody> flux: well, I give the command `opam install camlp4`, and it dies missing a particular file. I wouldn't have removed some cmi file within some part of the compiler pbase
<SomeDamnBody> topdirs.cmi: No such file or directory
<flux> seems like the package could be missing some dependency, or is otherwise broken
<flux> somedamnbody, do you have topdirs.cmi? find ~/.opam -name topdirs.cmi
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<SomeDamnBody> that spits out .opam/4.02.3/lib/ocaml/topdirs.cmi
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<SomeDamnBody> can I somehow get opam to clean camlp4 as though it needed to rebuild it? Because I don't think it is rebuilding it, and it's been a while since I've been back at ocaml
<SomeDamnBody> so my box has sat around, not updated for like several months, then I needed to upgrade a bunch of packages and stuff to get the latest tools that I needed to continue writing software
<SomeDamnBody> So, likely there is some gap between months of upgrades to software that I just leaped over
<SomeDamnBody> If there were something similar to what port has for reinstalling everything that would be fine. I was looking for it but didn't find that.
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<SomeDamnBody> Oh! I had a pinned package that I thought I had removed, but that I didn't realize I needed to unpin. That fixed it, things are installing now
<flux> great :). what was the package?
<SomeDamnBody> bap
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<SomeDamnBody> A while back I had been working on a custom component, and was going to merge it in. But then I took a part time second job
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<P4Titan> Hi all. Does anyone have expirience w/ ppx_deriving_protobuf?
<P4Titan> I would like to ask if there is a way to serialize a Zarith Z.t type?
<Drup> P4Titan: can't you go through a string ?
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<P4Titan> Drup: that's what I'm thinking, going through bytes
<P4Titan> but how does one go through?
<P4Titan> I've got some code, but it doesn't look terribly elegant
<Drup> there is an attribute in ppx deriving to change the function used for a specific field/type/whatever
<P4Titan> oo
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<P4Titan> Drup: it seems that ppx_deriving_protobuf doesn't have such changing function ability as eq or ord
<Drup> hum, that looks like an oversight/bug
<Drup> (well, you can always define a module Z = struct include Z let protobuf_function ... end
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<P4Titan> I ended up writing my own probuf encoding and decoding functions
<P4Titan> I've got one other question however
<P4Titan> Take Uint32 (but I've seen this in numerous places), there is a value Uint32.zero
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<P4Titan> which is internally defined as a constant
<P4Titan> better yet, with Bytes.empty
<P4Titan> isn't that dangerous since this value is globally shared, and if I found a way to modify its contents, it would scew with the entire program
<Drup> P4Titan: for the two cases you cited, you can't modify those
<Drup> (but this is why for values that can be modified , the function to generate empty things is of type unit -> t. hashtables are an example)
<P4Titan> why can't I modify those, in particular, can't bytes be modified in place
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<P4Titan> when passed in as an arg?
<Drup> you can modify the content, but not the lenght
<P4Titan> ic ic
<P4Titan> and that is strict
<Drup> empty as 0 length, hence no content, so you can't modify it
<P4Titan> very well
<P4Titan> thanks a bunch!
<Drup> (not that you still have the issue for constant strings)
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<P4Titan> meaning?
<Drup> let s = string_of_bool false in s.[0] <- 't' ; s.[1] <- 'r' ; s.[2] <- 'u' ; s.[3] <- 'e' ; s.[4] <- ' ' ;;
<Drup> string_of_bool false ;;
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<flux> (though strings are well on their way becoming immutable, making that trick obsolete)
<Drup> flux: Bytes.unsafe_of_string
<flux> why not obj.magic if you're going to use unsafe_* ;-)
<Drup> well, yes, that was the next step
<flux> or write in C!
<Drup> from a safety point of view, the fact that the language garantee this can be written is a problem :p
<Drup> (the same can not be said about trying to mutate integers, or empty strings)
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<okeuday_bak> When I attempt to do "ocamlopt -c file.ml" with source code that uses Error.t, it says "Error: Unbound module Error" and I don't see Error.t use in /usr/lib/ocaml , is there a .cmxa or .cma file to use to get it, or is my version 4.02.3 of ocaml too old?
<companion_cube> are you reading Real World Ocaml?
<okeuday_bak> Yes, though I am moving around in the book alot, using the tutorial too
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<companion_cube> so, they explain you need to use "core"
<companion_cube> Error.t is defined in core, not in the standard library
<okeuday_bak> companion_cube: ok, yeah, my mistake, is there something else I can use to avoid using the janest core? I want to make sure my ocaml is generic, Result.t is normal ocaml it seems, but I am wondering if I need to just have the error type as a string, or if there is a better alternative
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<companion_cube> it's quite usual to use ('a, string) result, in my experience, yes
<okeuday_bak> companion_cube: k, cool, thanks
<companion_cube> if you're looking for alternatives to core, there are batteries and containers ;-)
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<okeuday_bak> companion_cube: nah, I am trying to avoid all dependencies, and just focus on ocaml itself
<companion_cube> sure
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<ollehar> so, type-level monads?
<companion_cube> ?
<ollehar> no?
<ollehar> F* talks about it
<companion_cube> how do you mean?
<ollehar> I don't mean anything
<Drup> please ask questions with complete sentences
<ollehar> just poking around
<Drup> it's easier to understand what the hell you are talking about
<ollehar> sorry D:
<Drup> No, please do ask question or make a remark ... just actually make a complete one ;)
<ollehar> just wondering if anyone read about it
<ollehar> and if it has any other application than what F* uses to calculate weakest pre-conditions.
<Drup> Are you talking about the article on disjkstra monads ? I saw it, but afaik, it's very F*-esque ... except for Coq, of course :p
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<ollehar> yeah, that one and the one called "dependent types and multi-monadic effects in F*"
<ollehar> also something called Hoare monads, but didn't read the articles yet.
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<ollehar> (hoare type theory not related to the F* project)
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