companion_cube changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.04.0 release notes: http://ocaml.org/releases/4.04.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<sam__> why does jbuilder tell me "Multiple rules generated for SOME_O_FILE"?
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<aantron_> sam__: my guess would be your rule stanzas
<aantron_> anyway i've never seen this error. it sounds like you have multiple stanzas generating the same module in their outputs
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<rgrinberg> This usually happens when you define multiple stanzas in one directory but don't specify the modules field explicitly
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<sam__> How do you usually use Merlin? Do you need to manually re-run whatever build tool you have setup to see the errors or can Merlin figure out stuff on the fly for any case?
<Drup> if you change the external API of some file, then you need to rebuild for it to be picked up by merlin in other files
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<sam__> Drup: isnt there some way to do that automatically though?
<sam__> in a clever controlled way
<Drup> depends on your build system
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<sam__> Drup: is there one that works this way?
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<sspi> I was wondering if there was a simple and quick way to get all the exceptions that a function might throw
<sspi> nvrmind, got it
<orbifx[m]> my skill to pass answers using the force is getting really strong in me :)
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<orbifx[m]> which opam package would contain the compiler's libs? My build can't find caml_c_register_thread
<orbifx[m]> ocaml-compiler-libs?
<octachron> orbifx[m], opam build the compiler from source, so all compiler libs are included with the standard distribution
<octachron> but you may need the right subpackage
<orbifx[m]> ok, so something is going wrong with paths and linking phase
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<ollehar> anyone from France has two minutes over?
<rom1504> y
<ollehar> not about OCaml
<ollehar> translation
<ollehar> is this google translate correct? "Cet e-mail doit confirmer que l'ordre suivant a été confirmé à www.blabla.com"
<thizanne> it's technically french, but maybe you could show the original sentence to check they match :)
<ollehar> "This e-mail is to acknowledge that the following order has been confirmed on www.blabla.com"
<thizanne> it's not the best translation but the general sense is the same
<ollehar> good enough
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<ollehar> thanks
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<ollehar> and one more:
<ollehar> ?
<ollehar> Cet e-mail vous informe qu'une nouvelle facture a été générée pour vous.
<ollehar> =
<ollehar> This e-mail is to inform you that a new invoice has been generated for you.
<thizanne> ollehar: I would probably translate by "Cet e-mail confirme que l'ordre suivant a été validé sur www.blabla.com" fwiw, if you want to use it to communicate with actual french people
<thizanne> last one is ok
<ollehar> thizanne: ok, I'll trust you with that, thank you!
<ollehar> ok
<rom1504> order is commande
<thizanne> oh yeah sorry
<ollehar> oh
<thizanne> replace "l'ordre suivant" by "la commande suivante"
<thizanne> and "validé" by "validée"
<ollehar> done
<ollehar> great, thank you!
<thizanne> vous êtes bienvenu
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<theblatte> # + /home/jul/.opam/infer-4.04.2+spacetime/bin/ocamlopt.opt -c -g -safe-string -w a -I camlp4/import -I camlp4/config -I camlp4/boot -o camlp4/boot/camlp4boot.cmx camlp4/
<theblatte> boot/camlp4boot.ml
<theblatte> # Fatal error: exception Stack overflow
<theblatte> `opam install camlp4` is not happy with my 4.04.2+spacetime switch
<sam__> Anyone here good at using mparser?
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<theblatte> octachron: doh! I ran into that months ago and that was the fix back then too but I forgot
<theblatte> thanks!
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<orbifx[m]> how is ocamlfind told to link to ocaml's "library"? That's where caml_c_thread_register definition should be, right?
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<theblatte> CAML_LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
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<Enamex> Hello o/
<Enamex> I'm interested in documents/papers/opinion pieces talking about past design of ML languages and future proposals. I remember several from several years back to 2 years back. Of which are 1ML and Successor ML. Does anyone know of others?
<orbifx[m]> thanks theblatte , let me check
<Drup> Enamex: well, there is the whole http://sml-family.org/
<octachron> orbifx[m], are you including <caml/threads.h> and adding the "-thread" option to ocamlfind ?
<orbifx[m]> that directory is empty.. do I need to install something?
<Drup> after that, it depends how experimental you want to get :)
<Drup> (just read the proposed changes for Successor ML ... This is so conservative it's kind of ridiculous =')
<Drup> (and it doesn't fix any of the actual issues with the SML module system)
<Drup> (a more accurate name would be "SML 1.2")
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<Drup> Enamex: what are you interested in, more precisely ?
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<Enamex> Drup: :)
<Enamex> Well, all kinds of changes, really. So long as the author regards their critique/proposal to be towards something that belongs to the ML family.
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<Enamex> For example, the 1ML paper. I remember also some fairly extensive opinion piece talking about one ML language (can't remember which) especially about modules. Also there was a part critiquing type syntax and some function signature restrictions?
<Enamex> Can't find it again, though
<Drup> Well, there is stephen dolan's phd thesis. You can find a link here: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~sd601/mlsub/
<Drup> I don't recall other recent interesting work on the topic on the top of my head
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<Drup> (But the results of the next ML workshop should be available at some point!)
<Enamex> Workshop!?
<Drup> oh, the list of the talk is there!
<Enamex> Searching for anything related to ML has become a real chore on all search engines I've tried
<Enamex> It's chiefly "Machine Learning" now
<Drup> yeah
<Drup> (people get it wrong in stack overflow regularly, it's annoying)
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<orbifx[m]> will oasis be support jbuild as a tool soon?
<companion_cube> no idea
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<rgrinberg> Drup: i had a brief look at tyxml's build. I think the findlib subpackages would have to turn into opam subpackages for the port to work
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<aantron_> is tyxml being ported to jbuilder? we have some experience from porting lwt, without creating new opam packages (for now)
<rgrinberg> aantron_: oh yeah,that's right
<aantron_> likewise porting bisect_ppx to jbuilder+omp without renaming the ppx, etc
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<rgrinberg> Drup: ha tyxml's mli only module doesn't compile with jbuilder either. I get this cryptic error: Error: Cannot safely evaluate the definition of the recursively-defined module HACK.
<Drup> huh, there are no recursive modules in tyxml :|
<Drup> aantron_: I would be happy if it was done. I won't dedicate time to that for now :)
<rgrinberg> Drup: the recursive module comes from the hack jbuilder installs to build the mli only module
<rgrinberg> here's the rule
<Drup> Right, that hack :[
<rgrinberg> looks like tyxml will have to stay with ocmalbuild for now
<Drup> Eh.
<companion_cube> we might hear that a certain number of times again ;)
<rgrinberg> companion_cube: here it depends on your tastes. I don't have any special love for mli only modules so I just drop 'em
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<rgrinberg> looks like we've gone full circle on this build system. now there are jbuilder -> makefile ports out there :D
<companion_cube> I have some for storing interfaces
<companion_cube> well ocp* should migrate away from ocp-build
<companion_cube> I don't care towards what :D
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<orbifx[m]> does oasis overlap at all with jbuild?
<companion_cube> it could call it, I guess
<companion_cube> but no one wrote a plugin yet
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<orbifx[m]> I know that oasis is not a build system, but it wraps one. But if jbuild claims to do everything, then it overtakes oasis
<orbifx[m]> is that the case?
<companion_cube> I don't think so
<companion_cube> jbuilder doesn't seem to be higher-level than ocamlbuild, on top of wihch oasis lies
<Drup> rgrinberg: did you added a comment on the thread about standalone .mli ?
<Drup> jbuilder is higher level than ocamlbuild.
<companion_cube> oh.
<Drup> Or, rather, it has both
<Drup> Personally, I don't see the point of an jbuilder backend for oasis. When we get to the point where everything in oasis is easy to express in jbuilder (it's missing mostly C files and internal modules), then you might as well use jbuilder, the description language is as usable in both
<Drup> (and you avoid the annoying oasis problem of having half the build description in another format)
<companion_cube> assuming all of oasis+ocamlbuild is eventually encodable in jbuilder
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<Drup> except that oasis itself is not very powerful, you always drop down to ocamlbuild when doing complicated things
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<Drup> oasis is convenient, but jbuilder is equally convenient, so using it as a backend seems pointless
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<companion_cube> yeah yeah
<companion_cube> jbuilder is just not yet as convenient as ocamlbuild for some things
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<aantron_> jbuilder needs a lot of work to be fully useful without a layer over it
<aantron_> i am optimistic it will happen
<aantron_> but in the meantime in lwt we have essentially a pressure to convert all of our jbuild files to ocaml syntax
<aantron_> and this is not a maintainable scenario, as it was better to have a single myocamlbuild.ml
<aantron_> either that or i am missing some details about how to tweak compilation :)
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<aantron_> Drup companion_cube ^
<companion_cube> not that I know of
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<aantron_> examples are this PR (https://github.com/ocsigen/lwt/pull/439) about conditionally passing -O3 only if the compiler supports it, and this PR (https://github.com/ocsigen/lwt/pull/438) about supporting coverage analysis without instrumenting and slowing down lwt for everyone that has pinned a dev version
<companion_cube> :s
<companion_cube> the -O3 (same as -color always) is indeed nice to have…
<aantron_> there are probably other ways to handle the coverage thing, but ultimately everything proposed so far is going to be either a hack in lwt, or a hack in bisect
<aantron_> another annoying issue was enabling custom warning settings. jbuilder has --dev, but that is a hardcoded warning flag list, and we want control over that. this requires modifying each jbuild file. i ccd diml about that in the relevant issue that made that change
<Drup> yeah, I asked for that too
<companion_cube> too many builtin things…
<aantron_> again im optimistic on jbuilder's future, but i think 1.0 will still be effectively a beta when it comes to building something lwt
<aantron_> like* lwt
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<Armael> aantron_: do you know if there's a good specification detailing when is whitespace significant in html?
<orbifx[m]> I find that the build systems and compilations are more complicated than the language itself
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<orbifx[m]> maybe it's just a phase :P
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<Armael> (not parsing-wise, but rendering-wise)
<aantron_> Armael: not immediately, but this should exist somewhere
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<orbifx[m]> is there a way to change ocamlbuild's verbosity from oasis?
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<beginner> using opam on debian stretch gives me strange linker errors when updating packages
<aantron_> beginner: can you show the error?
<aantron_> orbifx[m]: try this https://stackoverflow.com/a/28562387/2482998
<orbifx[m]> thanks aantron_
<aantron_> beginner: how did you end up with 4.03.0? opam switch 4.03.0?
<beginner> yes, but before that i tried 4.02.3 and had the same error
<aantron_> a bit at a loss here. is the system switch working?
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<beginner> how can i check?
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<aantron_> opam switch system, then try your command
<beginner> now it seems to work, i install the missing packages now and that works
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<beginner> .opam/4.02.3/bin/ocamlfind: not found
<beginner> and opam says ocamlfind is installed
<orbifx[m]> you maybe need to update your environmental variables?
<beginner> this eval command?
<orbifx[m]> eval `opam config env`
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<beginner> i have done that
<orbifx[m]> afte you run installed the latest switch?
<beginner> yes
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<orbifx[m]> if ocamlfind doesnt exist under 4.02.3, and opam says it's installed, then you probably have another switch active under which ocamlfind is installed
<orbifx[m]> that's what this makes me think anyway
<orbifx[m]> so you need to run `opam switch` to see what switches you have installed and which is active
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<beginner> i have four installed and the current switch is the system installation of 4.02.3
<orbifx[m]> and what does this return: echo $PATH
<beginner> .opam/system/bin:....
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<orbifx[m]> if the 4.02.3 path is not there, it's not using it
<orbifx[m]> so your eval somehow didn't work
<orbifx[m]> when you did opam init, did you tell it to install into your profile?
<beginner> i dont know, the initial opam installation is a long time ago
<orbifx[m]> ok
<orbifx[m]> best close that terminal, start another, run eval `opam config env` again and check what echo $PATH says
<beginner> i closed the ssh connection and tried it again, but same result
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<orbifx[m]> that is, your $PATH doesn't contain 4.02.3?
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<orbifx[m]> can you pastbin the output of `opam config env` ?
<orbifx[m]> that looks broken :/
<orbifx[m]> you can wrote: opam config env
<orbifx[m]> ?
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<beginner> PATH="/home/florian/.opam/system/bin:/usr/local/texlive/2017/bin/x86_64-linux:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games"; export PATH;
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<orbifx[m]> and can you pastbin the output of: opam switch
<orbifx[m]> your system is your selected one
<beginner> is that the cause of the issue?
<orbifx[m]> an I means installed, and C means current i think
<orbifx[m]> run: opam install ocamlfind
<beginner> [NOTE] Package ocamlfind is already installed (current version is 1.7.3).
<beginner> something is seriously broken here
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<orbifx[m]> it might be right
<orbifx[m]> we are coming to the last steps :P
<beginner> if i use the 4.02.3 not system switch i get this -fPic issue....
<orbifx[m]> what command returned: .opam/4.02.3/bin/ocamlfind: not found
<orbifx[m]> ';
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<beginner> ocaml setup.ml -configure
<orbifx[m]> do: oasis setup
<orbifx[m]> actually wake
<orbifx[m]> wait(
<orbifx[m]> run: make clean
<orbifx[m]> then run: oasis setup
<orbifx[m]> and then whatever other commands you run
<octachron> ocaml setup.ml -distclean and check that all setup.data have been erased
<octachron> (oasis keeps the absolute path to ocaml in these setup.data files, which causes this kind of problem when switching fron one Ocaml compiler to another)
<beginner> oasis setup ocaml setup.ml -configure ocaml setup.ml -build
<beginner> those are the 3 commands i issue
<beginner> so i need to add the distclean step?
<Drup> When you switch, yes
<Drup> (you don't need to re-setup)
<beginner> thanks now it seems to work
<orbifx[m]> the first two commands you have beginner are caching paths directly into .opam/. If you then want to use a new switch, you have to do what octachron said, to clearout the caches
<orbifx[m]> and setup anew, with the commands you have
<orbifx[m]> does that make any sense?
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<beginner> i dont know the technical reasons behind this design, but i normally create my binaries within a docker container that does not switch ocaml compilers
<beginner> so that issue should not appear, but thanks a lot guys for helping with this issue
<orbifx[m]> there are camels working 24/7 to make the build tools better. :P in the mean time, you can report this experience at http://discuss.ocaml.org/ or the mailing list to have someone take note of it
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<gasche> hi there
<Armael> hey!
<gasche> Drup: I sent the list of accepted OCaml 2017 presentations on ocaml.org and the ICFP website
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<gasche> ( right now the most informative webpage is http://icfp17.sigplan.org/track/ocaml-2017-papers , but hopefully the other will shortly catch up )
<gasche> ( one thing that is not given there is the split between talks and posters )
<Drup> yay
<gasche> Armael: congratulations on your blog, it's reached new readership levels
<Armael> hehe, yes, I saw that Xavier's blogpost was on top of reddit and hn at some point
<gasche> you will end the month with more than 3k visits per day, which is quite impressive and I think better than it ever was
<Armael> do we have statistics?
<gasche> of course, this means that you will have to work hard to find other high-quality posts starting in September
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<Drup> this ocaml workshop selection is quite diverse
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<Drup> gasche: in the end, how many submission did you got (if that is not a secret at this point) ?
<Drup> (you where worried the day before the deadline :p)
<Drup> were*
<gasche> I'm a bit uneasy giving information about rejections; but we did have to reject some papers and it was more difficult than previous years
<gasche> we also accepted more papers than any other year, I think, thanks to the decision, from the start, to have more posters
<zozozo> how is the talk/poster ratio ?
<gasche> (we selected which presentations to have as posters not based on quality/preference, but on which ones would work well on this medium)
<Drup> (giving acceptance statistics is quite usual in conferences, though)
<gasche> there are four posters and 12 talks I think
<Armael> does this means that the amount of good quality submissions has increased since last year?
<gasche> yes
<Armael> cool
<gasche> well
<gasche> I'm happy about it, but it also gave sensibly more work to the PC
<gasche> hm
<gasche> there are also two talks that were accepted but will be presented at the ML workshops, and therefore don't show up here yet
<gasche> (but they are not yet in the ML workshop's "accepted paper" list)
<Drup> I can't say I'm terribly convinced by posters, by I already discussed with def` about that :p
<gasche> I was against posters as well (and I ranted to zozozo about it :p)
<zozozo> well, I'd also would have preferred a talk rather than a poster :p
<gasche> but (1) some people insisted that they liked it a lot and (2) there is no way to accept as many presentations without having posters
<Drup> Is there a lightning talk session to goes with the posters ?
<gasche> I think that once we decide to have posters (rather than reject some talks), it's better to decide talk/poster based on "what would fit well" rather than review score
<gasche> Drup: we plan to, although the details are not finalized yet
<Drup> right
<Drup> If yes, that's okay-ish
<Drup> (I believe people who like posters have not presented a poster in a very very long time and forgot how annoying it is as an author)
<gasche> well
<gasche> my one and only poster-presentation experience sucked in particular because no one at the event actually cared about my work
<zozozo> gasche: are you talking about your poster at Montpellier ?
<gasche> I think that the OCaml Workshop is quite different, being sensibly more focused in term of content
<octachron> Drup, there are people which genuinely enjoys presenting posters, also posters somewhat scale better with team project since in this case the "wallflower" can rotate
<gasche> zozozo: yep
<zozozo> which, by the way, I still have in one of my closets :p
<Drup> octachron: Ah, maybe
<Drup> I personally dislike it extremely, and if there had been a checkbox "Are you ready to present your work as a poster?", I would not have checked it. Now it's done so, well, gotta do what you gotta do. :p
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<zozozo> i've never done a poster yet, so maybe it's going to be nice, though I still have to make it :p
<gasche> I thought of letting submitters ask for one or the other, but I was worried that people would self-censor, with only the more insecure/junior people accepting posters
<gasche> the two extra talks that will be presented at the ML workshop are "VOCAL -- A Verified OCAml Library" and "Bioinformatics, The Typed Tagless Final Way"
<gasche> (but Drup's suggestion of "would you *refuse* to present as a poster?" may be a way to formulate it to gain information yet avoid self-censorship)
<Drup> gasche: if you want to provide the option, do it the other way around, ask people if they really *don't* want to present as posters (at the implicit risk of not presenting at all, if there are not engouh slots)
<gasche> well
<gasche> except that if we couldn't have posters, we may have had to reject *other people's* submissions
<gasche> I think if you ask zozozo whether if would choose to give a talk if that meant that *someone else* would be rejected instead of accepted, it's a bit different
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<gasche> but sure, having this information does help a bit (if you hesitate between several proposals for posterization)
<gasche> I'm going to dinner, see you
<gasche> s/to/for/
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<zozozo> on the other hand, had such an option been available, I don't know if I would have used it, mainly because I don't have any experience presenting posters, whereas doing a talk has become easier, so I might have opted for the easy way
<zozozo> so maybe I would have deprived myself (or someone else, has gasche mentionned) from presenting work, only because I'm not familiar with how to make a poster :p
<Drup> zozozo: that's why it's better phrased the other way around :p
<zozozo> indeed
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