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<_xvilka_>
hi
<_xvilka_>
what is the best way to define enum in OCaml? I am writing a wrapper for C library and want to use nice errors representations inside like "match errno with | Error_success -> ...", but Error_success is 0 for example
<_xvilka_>
how to define C-like enumeration in OCaml?
<_xvilka_>
ousado: oh, it uses C stubs, I am using Ctypes library
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<ousado>
doesn't really matter in this case, does it
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<_xvilka_>
ousado: it does matter, since I need to be sure that Error_success is 0, not some any other value
<ousado>
ocamls internal representation doesn't change with the mechanism you use to interface with C
<_xvilka_>
or you mean wrap it with OCaml function converting from integer to my custom type every time?
<ousado>
a flat ADT is just that - an integer
<ousado>
starting at 0
<ousado>
so yeah, for representing C enums in ocaml, I'd absolutely use ADTs
<ousado>
for certain enums, that don't start at 0 or skip values, etc. you'll need some minimal processing, of course
<ousado>
and in some cases, when the actual values are used in computations like bit fiddling or whatever, that should have equivalent semantics on the ocaml side, you maybe want to use something else
<_xvilka_>
I see
<_xvilka_>
thank you
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<_xvilka_>
ok, but how to convert the integer to that variant type?
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<_xvilka_>
without gigantic pattern matching, just converting the value directly
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<ousado>
_xvilka_: you mean from the C-side to the ocaml side?
<Armael>
_xvilka_: I assume you are not using Cstubs_struct
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<Armael>
In that case you have to either write by hand conversions functions between your variant type and int
<Armael>
Or you can use ppx_deriving enum to generate these conversion functions
<ousado>
.. and still, you could just use the appropriate integer type for the enum in ctypes itself, and then use the knowledge that the internal representation of flat ADTs is exactly that of integers in ocaml
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<_xvilka_>
Armael: thx
<_xvilka_>
ousado: yeah, have a function returning errno as an integer, want to provide a nice error names in a wrapper
<_xvilka_>
Armael: deriving enum is exactly what I need
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<Armael>
ousado: this is if you use cstubs_struct
<rgr[m]>
Is there a way to apply a functor to a signature to get another signature in an .mlI?
<Armael>
Drup: ^ :D
<rgr[m]>
E.g. something like module type of Make(X)
<rgr[m]>
But without actually having X defined as well
<Armael>
I was wondering the same thing yesterday
<rgr[m]>
Drup: halp
<Armael>
the answer is you can't, I think
<Armael>
at least, how would that work if X appears in the return signature of Make?
<rgr[m]>
ah, but my X wouldn't introduce any new types. E.g. it would be something like X with type t = string or w/e
<rgr[m]>
But yeah, that does sound suspicious
<rgr[m]>
Leonidas: nice you're taking over zmq?
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<ousado>
Armael: hmm?
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<ousado>
what are you referring to with 'this' in that sentence?
<ousado>
I still don't know what you're referring to :) anyway - the internal representation of flat ADTs is exactly the same as unboxed ocaml integers, that's true for at least native, bytecode and js_of_ocaml, not sure about bucklescript, but I'd be surprised if it was different there, as they pay attention to not break Obj.magic and friends
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<Armael>
there are differents setups when writing bindings with ctypes
<Armael>
in that case, there's a setup in several steps where ctypes generates C and ML code to check statically that the bindings descriptions of the structure match the reality, and automatically compute the offsets and alignments
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<Armael>
if you're using a more dynamic setup (eg by simply dynlinking the C library), this is not possible and you cannot use Cstubs_struct.enum -- you have to write conversions function by hand
<ousado>
be that as it may - we're talking about flat ADTs here
<Armael>
and if you mess up these functions (or if the definitions of the library change behind your back) then your bindings will crash
<Armael>
yes.
<Armael>
you can replace "struct" by "enum" in my explanation above
<ousado>
nope
<Armael>
what
<Armael>
*shrug*
<ousado>
enums are integers
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<Armael>
...yes
<ousado>
.. yes, and if you know how to get an int from C to ocaml, using ctypes, or whatever other mechanism, helper, etc. under the sun, that's all you need to translate into a flat ocaml ADT
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<Leonidas>
rgr[m]: Well, I am working at the company, so sort-of. But I'll add you and hcarty anyway :-)
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<Leonidas>
rgr[m]: I very much appreciate your help on it and we'd like to make this project as open as possible
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<Leonidas>
in the light of changes on opam2, how would one specify version constraints on a package?
<Leonidas>
s/package/compiler/
<Leonidas>
is available: [ ocaml-version >= "4.03" ] still the way to go?
<octachron>
since compiler are package in opam2, you should specify the dependency as a normal package dependendency
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<Leonidas>
octachron: I assume since my opam file is 1.2 format, it gets automatically translated into a normal depencency by opam2. Is this correct?
<octachron>
I think so
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<Leonidas>
rgr[m]: you should have received an invite
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<rgr[m]>
Leonidas: I did. Thanks.
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<Leonidas>
rgr[m]: thanks for your PR :) Having both Lwt and Async bindings in there would be fantastic.
<zozozo>
octachron: about ocaml as a normal package, does that mean that one should put "ocaml" as a dependency even if there is no version requirement, or does opam still suppose every package depends on the compiler ?
<remix2000>
reynir: I also want to clarify that I am not gildor, and I'm not french ("programmation").
<rgr[m]>
Leonidas: Yeah, OCaml is a perfect language for using zmq btw. Fast, type safe, native :P
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<dmbaturin>
zozozo: You only need to specify it the version matters.
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<Leonidas>
rgr[m]: Yesterday I looked at running OCaml on AWS Lambda and to do that one has to implement gobs (Rob Pike's answer to Googles Protocol Buffers) and Go rpc :( Wish they used something different, literally *anything* would've been better.
<octachron>
zozozo, I think that, theoretically, it would be nicer to add ocaml as dependency for people using switch with no compiler installed
<rgr[m]>
companion_cube: I hope you've given up on nanomsg btw
<dmbaturin>
In the big picture, considering that some platforms still have ocaml 3.x in their default repos, and some people are just using older versions, it's probably a good idea to figure out the oldest version your code actually will compile with. :)
<rgr[m]>
Leonidas: Hmm. why is that? I actually ran OCaml on Lambda before and don't remember any of that being necessary.
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<dmbaturin>
Hhm... Are there already any tools to automate ocaml version compatibility checks?
<rgr[m]>
That was almost a couple of years ago however. I think i might have been one of the first users of OCaml on lambda
<zozozo>
dmbaturin: sure, I was just thinking theoretically, ^^
<rgr[m]>
PR's to opam-repository should build on all version of OCaml one claims to support
<zozozo>
dmbaturin: for automated version compatibility check, there's always opam's CI, :p
<dmbaturin>
rgr[m]: Yes, I meant more like static analysis tools that could tell it without compiling. I wonder if I should attempt to make one.
<Leonidas>
rgr[m]: you can run it using a nodejs shim or apex/up but I'd like to do it "properly", without depending on various crutches
<rgr[m]>
I actually disagree with spending time on figuring this stuff out. The burden of supporting old versions should go on the users of such versions.
<dmbaturin>
Sound like a fun sort of project.
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<rgr[m]>
Leonidas: yes, i had a node shim
<dmbaturin>
Leonidas: Quite surprising since Rob Pike is at google.
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<dmbaturin>
Well, it's even more surprising that he did that NIH thing at google, than that amazon chose to use it.
<Leonidas>
dmbaturin: not really since he seems to think people at google are dumb ;-)
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<dmbaturin>
Their acceptance of Go makes me think he may be right. ;)
<dmbaturin>
Right for the wrong reasons, so to speak.
<Leonidas>
rgr[m]: the other possibility would be jsoo via node, also an option :)
<rgr[m]>
grpc is another thing we sorely lack in OCaml :P
<Leonidas>
remix2000: looks like your (or gildors) is too new
<Leonidas>
yes, lets have more ways to do slight pointless variations on msgpack!
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<dmbaturin>
rgr[m]: Well, I've been on both sides. As a packager, I really want build scripts (or documentation) to tell about missing dependencies rather than make me decipher compilation errors. As a developer I hate doing that, but I want to save people frustration when building it.
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<rgr[m]>
That would be nice, but I'm not advocating for shitty error messages. Just for people to favor strict constraints and recent versions
<rgr[m]>
Since I see a lot of maintainer effort being thrown into the void supporting things like 4.01.0.
<dmbaturin>
Oh, I'm not talking about _supporting 4.01.0, just about specifying correctly that it will not build with anything older than 4.02 (or whatever else).
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<rgr[m]>
Leonidas: well grpc lets you define a schema using protobufs, so it ends up being much easier to do multi language rpc with it in practice.
<rgr[m]>
msgpack seems more of a binary json replacement to me
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<zolk3ri>
/2/2
<zolk3ri>
ffs
<Drup>
rgr[m]: "module F (struct module type S = ... end) = struct module type T = ... end"
<Drup>
You can write a functor that takes a module containing a signature and return a module containing a signature
<Drup>
that's the only way you can write functors on signatures
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<companion_cube>
rgr[m]: yeah… I still have legacy toy code that uses it, but don't expect no maintenance
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<Leonidas>
rgr[m]: but from what I read gobs is basically like binary JSON aka msgpack
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<companion_cube>
rgr[m]: also I use zmq for jupyter stuff
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<Leonidas>
iocaml was using zmq too
<companion_cube>
well I'm deriving from it
<companion_cube>
it's "jupyter-kernel" on opam, and it uses lwt-zmq instead of threads ;)
<companion_cube>
(but it doesn't have ocaml as a kernel, it's just the library for writing kernels)
<Drup>
the zoo of libraries for these notebooks is a bit confusing, tbh
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<companion_cube>
well iocaml should rely on jupyter-kernel, in the future, ideally
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<Leonidas>
rgr[m]: looks like sexp_opaque is not in v0.9
<rgr[m]>
Leonidas: yeah, that's pesky. Oh well, we might as well just stick to 4.04 for async-zmq
<rgr[m]>
zmq-async I mean
<rgr[m]>
I don't think there's an issue for zmq and zmq-async supporting different minimum ocaml versions, right?
<Leonidas>
rgr[m]: I'm a bit confused because it did exist in Core 11x., since RWO even mentions it.
<Leonidas>
rgr[m]: apart from being a bit unexpected, not really.
<Leonidas>
rgr[m]: could you add a note in the readme that async-support is only in 4.04 and up?
<rgr[m]>
Leonidas: it's not enough to just add it to the opam file?
<Leonidas>
I am not quite sure why it ises Int.(=) though, that seems a bit arbitrary?
<octachron>
Int seems like a good choice amongst predefined types
<Leonidas>
octachron: It could also return `Probably_you_dont_want_polymorphic_equality, as Jane Street does in Async with Printf.printf
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<flux[m]>
and have a good operator go to waste.. ?-)
<Leonidas>
Int.(1 = 1)?
<flux[m]>
I don't think it's a bad idea to make a choice. obviously 1 = 1 is much more succinct way to express the same thing, and of non-polymorphic values we compare in ocaml, I think integers are highly represented
<flux[m]>
ie. string, float, char and bool-comparisons are all probably less common, at least that's my feeling
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<Leonidas>
I match on ints instead :p
<Leonidas>
btw, what does the [m] mean? Is it the MirageOS clan? :)
<alicemaz>
I found a blog post explaining their reasoning and can sorta agree with it
<Armael>
the matrix clan, I believe
<flux[m]>
matrix. I'm using the matrix-irc bridge for this account.
<Leonidas>
alicemaz: can you send the link?
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<flux[m]>
..with 13 other forefronting people here!
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<alicemaz>
since = just recursively descends a data structure it generates the wrong result on things not uniquely represented by their data structures, eg sets, and since this is implemented with compiler magic there isn't much to be done about it
<jpdeplaix>
Leonidas: int is the most used type when polymorphic comparaisons/operators are involved
<flux[m]>
I think it would have been a nice alternative approach to add the ability to hook (=) from ocaml as well (as it is possible to do from C)
<flux[m]>
but I guess there was general dislike for magic like that ;)
<Leonidas>
alicemaz: oh, I am not denying the fact that polymorphic equality is bad, I just find the choice of Int.(=) to be promoted to (=) a bit… arbitrary
<flux[m]>
and you never (statically) know wheren you find a non-compareable value
<alicemaz>
I think polymorphic compare is good, but I come from haskell, so :P
<Leonidas>
haskell has Eq though
<companion_cube>
which makes a huge difference
<Leonidas>
modular implicit (=) will solve all our problems!
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<alicemaz>
I am very much hoping for modular implicits (as are many I gather, I started on ocaml like two days ago but have already noticed "where are my typeclasses" is a bit of a meme)
<jpdeplaix>
yes but in the meantime… :/
<Leonidas>
hmm, github now promotes adding CONTRIBUTING.md and Codes of Conduct to repositories. Hmm.
<companion_cube>
in the meantime, let's all follow jpdeplaix on the monomorphic path
<jpdeplaix>
!! :)
<Leonidas>
the hope for modular implicits is the thing that makes me get out of bed in the morning
<Armael>
good, you'll be able to get out of bed for still quite some time then
<jpdeplaix>
:D
<companion_cube>
:D
<Leonidas>
:D
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<spew>
what's the preferred style for a match expression on the rhs of a pattern match?
<Armael>
it's highly recommended to wrap it with begin .. end
<spew>
I've been doing "Foo foo -> (match some_fn foo with ...)" but I was thinking about switching to begin/end
<Armael>
yeah begin end is a bit nicer I think
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<companion_cube>
it's more visible
<spew>
I agree, thanks
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<Leonidas>
I hate it and avoid begin/end, but I'm the minority
<Leonidas>
begin/end is nice for calculations though: begin 1 + begin 3 + 5 end * 4 end.
<Leonidas>
usually I try to unnest so I don't have nested matches :/
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<Armael>
Leonidas: what
<Armael>
>begin 1 + begin 3 + 5 end * 4 end
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<spew>
Leonidas: it's like you use begin/end and () exactly the opposite of how they are intended
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<Leonidas>
the bit about arithmethics was a bit trolling to point out how subjective it all is.
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<bruce_r>
I like to use begin/end as a signal/reminder that something imperative is going on
<Leonidas>
bruce_r: come to think of it, yeah, I could subscribe to the practice
<bruce_r>
A lof of people do let () = a () in let () = b () in c (). I don't like it, I feel like it tries to hide the side effects. I like better `begin a(); b (); c ()`
<bruce_r>
...end
<Leonidas>
but for that you don't need begin and end to begin with
<bruce_r>
right, say that code was in a pattern matching branch of some sort
<bruce_r>
for example
<bruce_r>
or some place where you need it...
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<tvlt>
Hello
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<SiGe>
Hey guys. Is it possible to make the build process provide some sort of backtrace of why there is a type error? I.e., where is the origin of the caller, etc. I am following the Kaleidoscope tutorial (LLVM) and passed the wrong number of arguments to one of the functions but was getting an error in a totally different part of the code.
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<ln5>
i'm trying to |topkg build| a program which is a verbatim copy of the client example in https://github.com/avsm/ocaml-cohttp but fail at what seems to be teh linking stage: "Error: No implementations provided for the following modules" listing Cohttp_lwt_unix__, Cohttp_lwt__ and Cohttp__
<SiGe>
I somehow wanted to trace back to line 31 - but the error was too cryptic for me to do that.
<Leonidas>
SiGe: not really. What I find often useful is to constrain the types of functions, so whenever the type inference disagrees with me we can sort it out behind the shed directly.
<SiGe>
Leonidas: Ah, that makes a lot of sense. Just to rephrase add the signature of each function, correct?
<Leonidas>
SiGe: Exactly!
<SiGe>
Thanks!
<Leonidas>
HTH :)
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<octachron>
ln5, can you check your version of jbuilder?
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<ln5>
octachron: is jbuilder involved? i thought topkg invoked ocmalbuild. i do have jbuilder installed though, version 1.0+beta18.
<octachron>
ln5, there is a bug with beta18, that makes it forget to install some modules
<ln5>
ah oh! my dependencies, i see.
<ln5>
this makes sense
<octachron>
you should pin to beta17: "opam pin add jbuilder 1.0+beta17"
<octachron>
and then reinstall cohttp
<ln5>
yay. not linking yet but at least the error is moving!
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<octachron>
ln5, if you are using unix modules, you probably need cohttp.unix as a dependency
<ln5>
i've got package(cohttp cohttp-lwt-unix) in _tags and opam
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<ln5>
compiling (and linking) the server example code from the same page succeeds without errors now at least. the client part is probably my bad.
<ln5>
how would i've debugged this properly? what do i have now that i didn't when installing cohttp using beta18?
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<ln5>
octachron: thank you for your very timely and helpful response. i was even more at loss than usual this time.
<octachron>
ln5, basically, the Cohttp__ module is an interface-only module, jbuilder's beta18 stopped to install the implementation file corresponding to this interface, because it was not needed when using jbuilder but this impacted other build systems that did not use the same compiler flags by default
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<ln5>
octachron: thanks
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<nicoo>
octachron: Thanks, I tried helping ln5 but that got me stumped for a while
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