adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.06.0 release notes: https://caml.inria.fr/pub/distrib/ocaml-4.06/notes/Changes | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<mahem1> Hey all, so I wanted to write a little text-based ncurses-esque program that'll run on both Linux an Windows. Does OCaml have any cross-platform curses-like libraries?
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<Drup> mahem1: do you want to write an text-based UI, or a "full-terminal" visualisation (like ASCII-art animations, etc) ?
<discord> <Perry> There are OCaml ncurses bindings etc.
<Drup> I would personally recommend lambda-term, as cross-compat is explicitly tested.
<dmbaturin> ncurses doesn't work on windows though, unless we count cygwin as such. :)
<Drup> Perry: ncurse is shit, the binding are unsound, don't use it
<dmbaturin> lambda-term is cross-platform AFAIR.
<dmbaturin> How's opam on windows doing?
<dmbaturin> (It would also be nice to be able to cross-compile for windows on UNIX machines)
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<mahem1> Drup: just a more simplistic program. No real animation that I wouldn't be willing to rewrite myself.
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<mahem1> I'll take a look at lambda-term then, see how far I can get with it.
<Drup> lambda-term is very comprehensive and powerful
<Drup> it handles unicode well, it has a notion of widget which you can compose, and so on
<Drup> and it's cross-plateform
<Drup> It's a nice library
<mahem1> That's super great then. I want to be able compile on both. (You can't cross compile in with OCaml, right?)
<Drup> Eh, I'm not competent, but I know some people are working on it
<Drup> can't help more than that :(
<discord> <Perry> Lambda Term then. (See how much I know, which is nothing. 😃 )
* hannes also likes notty - https://github.com/pqwy/notty (not sure about cross-platform though, I only ever used it on Linux/FreeBSD/OpenBSD/MacOSX)
<Drup> Perry: ocp-brower is written with lambda-term :3
<Drup> hannes: notty doesn't make any effort to be cross-plateform, which means, in the context of terminals, that it isn't
<Drup> (also, notty is not as good as lambda-term to make rich UIs, no widget library)
<Drup> (it's very good for what I tend to call "full-terminal animations")
<mahem1> Is ocp-browser just a quick what to find function and module signatures?
<Drup> mahem1: yeah
<Enjolras> "just"
<Enjolras> mahem1: after you try it you will stop thinking about it as "just" :)
<Enjolras> it's cool
<mahem1> Haha, sorry, I guess I'm just used to finding things pretty quickly using top or Google. :P
<Enjolras> np, i'm just saying, try it it's cool
<hannes> Drup: my experience with lambda-term (which i used before for an xmpp-client (now notty) https://github.com/hannesm/jackline) is that it is very hard/hackish to extend it with custom key combinations
<Drup> hannes: Really ? I didn't had that problem
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<Drup> I mean, I have lot's of shortcuts in ocp-browser, it was not difficult
<mahem1> Enjolras: Yeah, I suppose I should really top spending 2 minutes on Google just to remember parameter order of fold_left vs fold_right...
<hannes> but maybe it is working for you guys better these days
<Enjolras> mahem1: oh, but you don't even need ocp-browser for that : if you know the name, type it into your editor, use merlin to show the type and you're done :)
<discord> <Perry> The thing I keep being irritated about not existing is a good-looking portable GUI package.
<mahem1> Enjolras: Man, I must be living in the dark ages... Since when have people stopped manually reading the official documentation for everything?!
<discord> <Perry> I had some hopes that https://github.com/andlabs/libui would be an interesting thing to add bindings to, but it doesn't seem to be very active now.
<Enjolras> mahem1: hahah :) you are not alone but come to the future it's cool
<Drup> hannes: I think you could have pushed the thing forward if you really wanted to. I mean, I understand, notty has a "cool" API and you are close friend with the author (who has a a huge nerd-snipe/NIH syndrom). It also has, like, less than 10% of lambda-term's features.
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<hannes> Drup: aha. well, I just reported from my experience, I also couldn't get lambda-term widgets to work (unclear how you measure "10% of the features"). but as said above, maybe this is all fixed by now...
<Drup> Well, you have to use OCaml objects
<Drup> (Some people consider that worse than selling their souls)
<mahem1> Enjolras: Old habits die hard. After using SML academically as a mostly "theoretical" language you get used to writing code on something as low-tech as a piece of paper...
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<mahem1> What else does the future have these days? GNU Make is still how I am suppose to build my projects, right?!
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<Armael> :D well
<Drup> *cough*
<Drup> It never was
<Enjolras> mahem1: please tell me you're not serious :)
<mahem1> lol. I heard something something about ocamlfind or whatever that is. But never even tried... So what's the "right" way? :P
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<Armael> you should use https://github.com/ocaml/dune
<mahem1> Seems legit. Is that what most projects use?
<mahem1> Hmmm, how does that ol' eat-your-own-dog-food saying go? https://github.com/ocaml/dune/blob/master/Makefile :P
<Armael> well yeah, most project nowadays use dune
<theblatte> yes most new projects use dune, and many existing projects have already migrated even
<theblatte> -even
<Drup> mahem1: you do realize that all these targets are dummy and call jbuilder itself, right ?
<Armael> I also often have a makefile on the side to call dune, which is just used for development
<Drup> it's just to be able to do `make all`
<theblatte> s/jbuilder/dune/g :p
<Armael> (and the opam build rule would directly call dune)
<mahem1> Makes sense. I'll have to get onboard with dune then.
<mahem1> Drup: Yeah, just poking fun.
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<mahem1> Any other new OCaml things that I should know about?
<octachron> mahem1, merlin?
<discord> <Perry> opam?
<rks`> objects.
<Drup> ocamlforge ? :D
<rks`> :D
<mahem1> Enjolras already mentioned merlin, looks really snazzy. I have been using opam as well. I try to stay away from objects when possible, but got to use them with qt in OCaml.
<Enjolras> Drup: DIE
<mahem1> Never used ocamlforge doh
<discord> <Perry> Is it possible to use the Qt bindings if you're not already quite familiar with Qt?
<mahem1> Yes, I was just doing some simple input forms and buttons though.
<mahem1> But I had used qt in Python before that though. So had some experience.
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<Leonidas> you guys know the case of email delivery failing when sending an email further than 400 miles? I seem to have run into the OPAM2 equivalent of it: https://github.com/ocaml/opam/issues/3471
<Leonidas> opam2 fails to install an unrelated depenency when dune-project files in my own repo exist
<Leonidas> Armael: yes, I do the same. `all: dune build`, because old habits die hard and `make` types faster than `dune build`
<Enjolras> this is because dune prevents you to see 400 miles away.
<Enjolras> Unless you are on the top of the highest one of course
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<Leonidas> I felt really silly writing this bug report because if somebody wrote me a report like this I would label them a lunatic
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<Drup> yay Heisenbug
<Enjolras> Leonidas: my theory about crazy bugs : they are almost always true
<Enjolras> because programmers are not imaginative enough to invent them without some goog grounds :)
<Leonidas> I asked my coworker to reproduce it. Oddly it is only msgpck and never any other package. So first I thought mgspck was faulty, but it doesn't seem to be. Maybe because it uses jbuilder and jbuilder reads dune-project and ???? happens and then the sandbox breaks
<discord> <rgrinberg> I always wondered why Sys_error is always so opaque
<discord> <rgrinberg> which operation? for what reason?
<discord> <rgrinberg> luckily, we have stack trace here
<Leonidas> Enjolras: Yeah, can't imagine myself coming up with something so abstruse
<discord> <Perry> The worst Heisenbug I ever hit was probably either a SunOS or a Sparc hardware bug. It took our team months to isolate the circumstances. The bug always showed up when the executing instruction was on a page boundary.
<discord> <Perry> We never actually found the cause.
<Leonidas> rgrinberg: it seems to pick up _build in the project folder
<Leonidas> so, in the one of the repo. Which is really weird, because I checked the values of PWD and POL and $@ in the sandbox.sh script and they seem to point to the right place
<discord> <rgrinberg> Somehow it fails to open the log file for writing
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<Leonidas> it seems to try to write to _build and not _opam/.opam-switch/.../msgpck.1.4/_build
<Leonidas> ocaml-community: breaking one cpu architecture at a time. x86 first, sparc is next?
<discord> <rgrinberg> Leonidas: are you able to isolate what dune thinks the cwd is at the time of the error?
<Leonidas> rgrinberg: how can I do this?
<discord> <rgrinberg> dtrace? 😛
<discord> <rgrinberg> or if you can edit the sources of dune, you can just print Sys.getcwd () right before the error occurs on line 11 of log.ml
<Enjolras> Drup: we had another bug since then, but we didn't manage to track it down much :/
<Enjolras> also not specific to ocaml
<Enjolras> but those days, researchers find a cpu bug every week
<Enjolras> it's not even funny anymore
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<Drup> Enjolras: don't worry, you did it before everyone else
<discord> <Perry> Drup: I've indeed seen that before! Quite the bug!
<Enjolras> Drup: haha no :)
<Drup> Well, you did it before it was hyp :p
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<Enjolras> also what i meant is : "it's not even funny because those bugs are starting to affect day to day use"
<Enjolras> you cannot be a happy programmer trusting your hardware
<Enjolras> or maybe i was just naive before
<Drup> ah, yeah, that's true
<Drup> well, I'm slightly to young to remember when the pentium bug happened, so it's not really a thinking I was used to
<Enjolras> yep. I learned to code in the golden age of intel
<mrvn> Fast or secure, take your pick.
<Enjolras> yeah. Obviously us programmers want fast AND secure
<Enjolras> but it's obvious manufacturer cannot deliver this in the short term
<Enjolras> difficult choice
<Leonidas> rgrinberg: you you perchance have a dtrace call? I think building dune is easier than figuring out how to use dtrace
<discord> <rgrinberg> Yeah, I thinking forking and pinning dune would be easier for you
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<Leonidas> rgrinberg: CWD=/Users/moi/dune-break-opam
<discord> <rgrinberg> and this is from opam executing dune?
<discord> <Perry> The pentium fdiv bug was a fun one. I remember that well.
<discord> <Perry> Before the FDIV bug, they'd been using formal methods (ACL2 I think) to verify their FPUs. They stopped. Then after the FDIV bug, they started doing it again. 😃
<Leonidas> rgrinberg: yes. If if weren't then there would be no sandbox and I assume it would succeed (since it does so on our opam1 images which don't use sandboxing)
<Leonidas> I also realized the bug is filed in the wrong place, should be filed with dune :(
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<sspi__> Leonidas: "webasm is coming?" - I'm trying :-)
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<ianconnolly> does anyone know how to ask cohttp to deny new connections and drain existing ones?
<ianconnolly> seems to be dying fast in response to SIGTERM
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<discord> <struktured> ianconolly: if it was core/async, maybe something like this?Signal.handle [Signal.term;Signal.terminating] ~f:(fun _ -> Cohttp_async.Server.close)
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